Regarding Rape Culture: Its Presence and Method of Attack

[Genivaria]

-post deleted-

[Des-Bal]

Except that you want a clear definition on exactly how drunk someone can be before it becomes rape. Just how far can you push the envelope and still get off legally. Not considering your partner's feelings. Not concern with whether the person you are fucking might feel violated. Not whether they have the emotional or mental capacity to consent. Just whether they have had the right amount of alcohol for you to be legally in the clear, regardless of the effect on them.

It seems that sex for you is expressly about your own gratification, rather than any kind of mutual pleasure. That kind of thinking means you probably shouldn't be having sex.

I am not marauding around the countryside looking for women just drunk enough to rape and get away with it.


Laws must be clear.

[The Parkus Empire]

I'd say lack of consent or lack of ability to GIVE legal consent is a pretty clear line.

Where is it? There is no definition as to how drunk you have to be to become unable to give legal consent.

If it's not something you can judge (I personally feel it's about the safe-to-drive point), then just get prior consent while she's sober (does NOT mean you don't also need drunk consent later). Geeze.

The entire point is that "drunk consent" is not a thing.

It is if the woman has expressed to you in a sober state that she consents and that she feels capable of consenting when drunk.

It's like eating out a hyna when she's barely awake: if she's made it expressly clear before bed that she likes it and wants it from you, then it's okay. If she didn't, then it's rape.

If you are unsure if she's intoxicated, and you have no prior permission, then don't fuck. Easy.

[Individuality-ness]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

[Des-Bal]

That's the fucking problem! You should!
Good god I can't believe you just admitted that.

You should presume a person consents to sex unless given indication otherwise?

[Genivaria]

That's the fucking problem! You should!
Good god I can't believe you just admitted that.

You should presume a person consents to sex unless given indication otherwise?

Wait.....oh shit. Nevermind I read that wrong.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

I know, right? Easy enough to understand. And yet... *sigh*

[Des-Bal]

Wait.....oh shit. Nevermind I read that wrong.

That's a side effect of not fully appreciating what you're saying.

[Nadkor]

I don't believe in presumed consent I said several dozen times that I do not believe in presumed consent

"If that person didn't express their Anti Consent then it's not rape"

What you're saying is the difference between rape and consensual sex is arbitrarily assigned, the idea you're espousing is the delightfully republican notion that "rape" is just when they regret it after they wake up.

Sure, if you can't read.

It's amazing how almost every interaction I have with reminds me of just how disgusting your positions are.

[Genivaria]

Wait.....oh shit. Nevermind I read that wrong.

That's a side effect of not fully appreciating what you're saying.

Yeah, no. I understand fully what I'm saying.
If expressed consent is not given, then it's a no to sex.
That's what I'm saying and what you seem to be having an issue getting.

[Occupied Deutschland]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

Problem: Many of the people who are going to rape a woman in the instances that seem to be under discussion (intoxication on one or both the parties parts) aren't going to be unsure at all. In fact, they'll more likely than not consider it to NOT be rape because the person consents and, should they be intoxicated themselves, they aren't in a state to determine whether such consent is 'legitimate' or not.

[Des-Bal]

"If that person didn't express their Anti Consent then it's not rape"

That is not presumed consent.

[Individuality-ness]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

I know, right? Easy enough to understand. And yet... *sigh*

You know what's sad? When people are so wrapped up in themselves that they can't get their head out of their own collective asses and think about the person that they plan to fuck that night.

You'd think that you'd rather not have the guilt of maybe-committing-rape, but no, apparently, people would rather have something to fuck and not give a shit on what the other person thinks, than to think that they might actually have to go one night without sex. The horror!

[Genivaria]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

Problem: Many of the people who are going to rape a woman in the instances that seem to be under discussion (intoxication on one or both the parties parts) aren't going to be unsure at all. In fact, they'll more likely than not consider it to NOT be rape because the person consents and, should they be intoxicated themselves, they aren't in a state to determine whether such consent is 'legitimate' or not.

If both parties are intoxicated then it's completely different I think, then I'd say it's more on their friends to get them in the car and home.

[Des-Bal]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

So if you're sure having sex with a person incapable of standing isn't rape then you're green?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Novel concept:

Even if he/she expresses that they want to be fucked while drunk out of their minds, I think it's a matter of respect not to so, don't fuck them in that state. Consent is very important. So very important.

[The Whispers]

Problem: Many of the people who are going to rape a woman in the instances that seem to be under discussion (intoxication on one or both the parties parts) aren't going to be unsure at all. In fact, they'll more likely than not consider it to NOT be rape because the person consents and, should they be intoxicated themselves, they aren't in a state to determine whether such consent is 'legitimate' or not.

If both parties are intoxicated then it's completely different I think.

If both parties are intoxicated, neither can give consent, it's time to go home and have a wank.

[Individuality-ness]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

Problem: Many of the people who are going to rape a woman in the instances that seem to be under discussion (intoxication on one or both the parties parts) aren't going to be unsure at all. In fact, they'll more likely than not consider it to NOT be rape because the person consents and, should they be intoxicated themselves, they aren't in a state to determine whether such consent is 'legitimate' or not.

Which is why consent education is important, and why we need to teach people that fucking people who did not give consent, are under duress to give "consent", or are not in the state to give consent is rape.

[United Kingdom of Muffins]

why are you guys so angry? its not like arguing about this on the internet is going to do anything.

[Des-Bal]

You know what's sad? When people are so wrapped up in themselves that they can't get their head out of their own collective asses and think about the person that they plan to fuck that night.

You'd think that you'd rather not have the guilt of maybe-committing-rape, but no, apparently, people would rather have something to fuck and not give a shit on what the other person thinks, than to think that they might actually have to go one night without sex. The horror!

You're right, we should think about others by presuming once a drop of alcohol has crossed their lips they are children incapable of making their own decisions. You know what I think I'll fetch my gun, my neighbor and his wife of twenty years just came home. She had a glass of wine and I think he intends to rape her.

[Individuality-ness]

If you're not sure whether what you're doing is rape, DON'T HAVE FUCKING SEX.

My fucking gods, this should be SO FUCKING obvious, and yet we're still hitting people over the head with it.

So if you're sure having sex with a person incapable of standing isn't rape then you're green?

NO. Stop strawmanning.

[Saint Jade IV]

I know, right? Easy enough to understand. And yet... *sigh*

You know what's sad? When people are so wrapped up in themselves that they can't get their head out of their own collective asses and think about the person that they plan to fuck that night.

You'd think that you'd rather not have the guilt of maybe-committing-rape, but no, apparently, people would rather have something to fuck and not give a shit on what the other person thinks, than to think that they might actually have to go one night without sex. The horror!

So very, very this.

[Genivaria]

why are you guys so angry? its not like arguing about this on the internet is going to do anything.

To everyone who ever asks this question on NSG: Why the fuck are you here?

[Nadkor]

"If that person didn't express their Anti Consent then it's not rape"

That is not presumed consent.

"unless they have expressed their desire not to be a participant they were not raped."

Rape is fucking someone without their consent. Yet you claim that unless they actively express anti-consent then it's not rape. The only logical thing to take from this is that consent is inherently there until it is withdrawn.

You believe in presumed consent.

Twist and turn whatever way you want - but anybody who can actually read and think knows exactly who and what you are.

[Des-Bal]

Which is why consent education is important, and why we need to teach people that fucking people who did not give consent, are under duress to give "consent", or are not in the state to give consent is rape.

Consent education is sort of difficult when we have no understanding of when consent is and is not valid.