Regarding Rape Culture: Its Presence and Method of Attack

[The Steel Magnolia]

You realize that if there's consent, there's no problem, right?

But if rape is bad, am I supposed to feel bad I have fetish for it?

Put it this way, when I hear a movie has a rape scene in it, I want to watch it. Is this some reinforcement from society?

Probably. But why does that mean your fetish is harmful?

Unless, y'know, you're actually raping people. Then it's harmful.

[The Blaatschapen]

Well that was revolting to read.

I feel sorry for your daughters.

No. The way he talks about the girl is revolting.

Are you talking to yourself?

[The Steel Magnolia]

No. The way he talks about the girl is revolting.

Are you talking to yourself?

I fucking hate quote tags.

[Des-Bal]

No. The way he talks about the girl is revolting.

Really because you've stated in the past that there's nothing wrong with calling someone a slut.

[Nailed to the Perch]

You realize that if there's consent, there's no problem, right?

But if rape is bad, am I supposed to feel bad I have fetish for it?

Put it this way, when I hear a movie has a rape scene in it, I want to watch it. Is this some reinforcement from society?

Question: if you had the opportunity to watch a video of someone actually being raped, would you want to see it, or would that repulse you?

[The Steel Magnolia]

No. The way he talks about the girl is revolting.

Really because you've stated in the past that there's nothing wrong with calling someone a slut.

It was really just the utter hatred of women that cinched it.

(also slut shaming's bad, m'kay?)

[The Parkus Empire]

Serious question, I'm I supposed to be guilty for having a Rape niche?

I mean, I can't help it, am I supposed to feel wrong about it? Am I part of rape culture? Does fantasy with a partner make me immoral? Did rape culture do this to me? Or is it natural for a person to be dominant and aroused by submission?

I'm just wondering. Seeing all this rape culture stuff got me thinking.

Girls's identity is indoctrinated to care (dolls).

Boys get toy guns.

Society does teach men that violent domination is cool from boyhood, and sexy soon after. Rape is a natural extension of that.

If you get off on rape (I'm not talking BDSM), that is bad, in my opionion (because we're taught to see "shades of grey" as far as rape goes, it can negatively impact women you're with). You want an easy cure? Find a woman who's been raped and talk to her. I'm sure you know a couple, even if you don't know it. When you find it's hurt someone you know, it will cease to excite you.

[Kalarin]

I think the real problem is that often the situation is not clear cut. Having had a relative of mine raped and seeing the psychological impact it can have on someone (She was afraid to leave the house until the guy was arrested) I understand how many people call for such harsh punishment. However her case was very clear cut, she was walking home from work along he comes and well I think the rest is pretty obvious.

But in some cases its not clear cut, take for instance at a party. When someone is intoxicated and has sex but later regrets it is it rape? The obvious problem here is whether actual consent to sex can be given when intoxicated. This is just for one person to another but it goes both ways man-woman, man-man ect. This can lead to some people being wrongfully prosecuted and sentenced for something which may not have been rape.

I think it shouldn't be called "rape culture" but rather the "rape question": What is rape and how is the definition applied to all circumstances?
How do we deal with it? and How do we undo the failings of the justice system in regards to this: people wrongfully prosecuted, people wrongfully acquitted.

[Des-Bal]

I think the real problem is that often the situation is not clear cut. Having had a relative of mine raped and seeing the psychological impact it can have on someone (She was afraid to leave the house until the guy was arrested) I understand how many people call for such harsh punishment. However her case was very clear cut, she was walking home from work along he comes and well I think the rest is pretty obvious.

But in some cases its not clear cut, take for instance at a party. When someone is intoxicated and has sex but later regrets it is it rape? The obvious problem here is whether actual consent to sex can be given when intoxicated. This is just for one person to another but it goes both ways man-woman, man-man ect. This can lead to some people being wrongfully prosecuted and sentenced for something which may not have been rape.

I think it shouldn't be called "rape culture" but rather the "rape question": What is rape and how is the definition applied to all circumstances?
How do we deal with it? and How do we undo the failings of the justice system in regards to this: people wrongfully prosecuted, people wrongfully acquitted.

Intoxication is complicated, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how drunk you have to be to be incapable of consent. Getting shitfaced and then trying to get laid is a fairly common pastime and I can't imagine the people who routinely do it believe they're enjoying consensual sex despite the fact that they are actively pursuing legal rape. Since the wheels of justice won't start spinning unless one party takes umbrage for all practical purposes it's only rape if one party says it was.

[Temujinn]

Really because you've stated in the past that there's nothing wrong with calling someone a slut.

It was really just the utter hatred of women that cinched it.

(also slut shaming's bad, m'kay?)

If you could cite my utter hatred of women, that would be great.
Hating Feminism, isnt hating women, no matter how bad you want it to be so.

[The Serbian Empire]

I think the real problem is that often the situation is not clear cut. Having had a relative of mine raped and seeing the psychological impact it can have on someone (She was afraid to leave the house until the guy was arrested) I understand how many people call for such harsh punishment. However her case was very clear cut, she was walking home from work along he comes and well I think the rest is pretty obvious.

But in some cases its not clear cut, take for instance at a party. When someone is intoxicated and has sex but later regrets it is it rape? The obvious problem here is whether actual consent to sex can be given when intoxicated. This is just for one person to another but it goes both ways man-woman, man-man ect. This can lead to some people being wrongfully prosecuted and sentenced for something which may not have been rape.

I think it shouldn't be called "rape culture" but rather the "rape question": What is rape and how is the definition applied to all circumstances?
How do we deal with it? and How do we undo the failings of the justice system in regards to this: people wrongfully prosecuted, people wrongfully acquitted.

Intoxication is complicated, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how drunk you have to be to be incapable of consent. Getting shitfaced and then trying to get laid is a fairly common pastime and I can't imagine the people who routinely do it believe they're enjoying consensual sex despite the fact that they are actively pursuing legal rape. Since the wheels of justice won't start spinning unless one party takes umbrage for all practical purposes it's only rape if one party says it was.

I guess the answer is to never ever have sex with the intoxicated as it can comeback to haunt someone.

[Temujinn]

Intoxication is complicated, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how drunk you have to be to be incapable of consent. Getting shitfaced and then trying to get laid is a fairly common pastime and I can't imagine the people who routinely do it believe they're enjoying consensual sex despite the fact that they are actively pursuing legal rape. Since the wheels of justice won't start spinning unless one party takes umbrage for all practical purposes it's only rape if one party says it was.

I guess the answer is to never ever have sex with the intoxicated as it can comeback to haunt someone.

If they are intoxicated and you are not, then you are clearly in a more present state of mind.
If you are both shitfaced, then I think that is where ambiguity comes into play, solution- always be way more fucked up than the other person.

[Ostroeuropa]

People who like to roleplay rape scenario's are probably the least threatening people in terms of, you know, actually going out to commit rape.
If they didn't care about consent, they'd have already done it. Does it contribute to the culture?
I dunno. Probably not. If anything it's demonstrating to people how to act if you actually do have these urges.
(In a controlled roleplay manner, between consenting adults.)

[Des-Bal]

If you could cite my utter hatred of women, that would be great.
Hating Feminism, isnt hating women, no matter how bad you want it to be so.

Hating feminism is hating women, supporting with feminism but disagreeing with feminist policies is hating women, disagreeing with feminists in any capacity is hating women, supporting defense of property is hating women, disagreeing with the legal definitions is hating women. One thing I've learned from NSG is that it is very easy to accidentally hate women.

[Des-Bal]

If they are intoxicated and you are not, then you are clearly in a more present state of mind.
If you are both shitfaced, then I think that is where ambiguity comes into play, solution- always be way more fucked up than the other person.

The issue isn't that your state of mind is better than theirs it's that they are so intoxicated that they are incapable of consent. There's no real line for when that is. The opinion of NSG is that even if person A can't stand straight if person B is drunk enough to be incapable of consent then person B has a legitimate case for rape.

[Saint Jade IV]

Intoxication is complicated, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how drunk you have to be to be incapable of consent. Getting shitfaced and then trying to get laid is a fairly common pastime and I can't imagine the people who routinely do it believe they're enjoying consensual sex despite the fact that they are actively pursuing legal rape. Since the wheels of justice won't start spinning unless one party takes umbrage for all practical purposes it's only rape if one party says it was.

I guess the answer is to never ever have sex with the intoxicated as it can comeback to haunt someone.

Well, the answer is to never, ever have sex with an intoxicated person, since you might be guilty of rape.

Seriously, I have never understood this obsession with "the line". Like, we have to know exactly where it is, because our need for sex is so great, it's better to possibly rape someone than miss out on getting laid.

I mean, I personally would rather go home and masturbate, than potentially cause someone irreparable, horrific mental and emotional (and potentially physical) harm.

[Des-Bal]

Well, the answer is to never, ever have sex with an intoxicated person, since you might be guilty of rape.

Seriously, I have never understood this obsession with "the line". Like, we have to know exactly where it is, because our need for sex is so great, it's better to possibly rape someone than miss out on getting laid.

I mean, I personally would rather go home and masturbate, than potentially cause someone irreparable, horrific mental and emotional (and potentially physical) harm.

People go to bars and parties to drink and meet people. Alcohol is a major part of social interaction.

How can we talk about educating people about consent when you need to be twelve jurors to determine whether or not it exists?

[Saint Jade IV]

Well, the answer is to never, ever have sex with an intoxicated person, since you might be guilty of rape.

Seriously, I have never understood this obsession with "the line". Like, we have to know exactly where it is, because our need for sex is so great, it's better to possibly rape someone than miss out on getting laid.

I mean, I personally would rather go home and masturbate, than potentially cause someone irreparable, horrific mental and emotional (and potentially physical) harm.

People go to bars and parties to drink and meet people. Alcohol is a major part of social interaction.

How can we talk about educating people about consent when you need to be twelve jurors to determine whether or not it exists?

People need to understand that behaviour like going to a bar, and taking a wasted person home for the purposes of sex can be rape. That if a person is drunk, they may be unable to consent. They need to decide whether the risk of raping someone is worth getting their rocks off.

I think people also need to have a much better understanding of drunkenness, and the effects of alcohol and drug consumption.

[Lyrne]

People who like to roleplay rape scenario's are probably the least threatening people in terms of, you know, actually going out to commit rape.
If they didn't care about consent, they'd have already done it. Does it contribute to the culture?
I dunno. Probably not. If anything it's demonstrating to people how to act if you actually do have these urges.
(In a controlled roleplay manner, between consenting adults.)

This reminds me of an entry in a CRACKED article I read a while back. When you imagine something, your brain releases the same chemicals it would if you actually experinced the situation being imagined. This makes you less likely to actually to act out on your fantasies. I'm not sure if it's because I was conditioned but with my old crush I'd act out scenarios involving the two of us getting together in my head and got absolutley nowhere IRL while I reused to do the same with my current one and have got much farther with her .

[Des-Bal]

People need to understand that behaviour like going to a bar, and taking a wasted person home for the purposes of sex can be rape. That if a person is drunk, they may be unable to consent. They need to decide whether the risk of raping someone is worth getting their rocks off.

I think people also need to have a much better understanding of drunkenness, and the effects of alcohol and drug consumption.

Given that many people go to bars and get wasted intending on having sex with someone I don't think that it makes sense to just say bone at your own peril. Turning rape into a game of duck duck goose helps nobody.

[Saint Jade IV]

People need to understand that behaviour like going to a bar, and taking a wasted person home for the purposes of sex can be rape. That if a person is drunk, they may be unable to consent. They need to decide whether the risk of raping someone is worth getting their rocks off.

I think people also need to have a much better understanding of drunkenness, and the effects of alcohol and drug consumption.

Given that many people go to bars and get wasted intending on having sex with someone I don't think that it makes sense to just say bone at your own peril. Turning rape into a game of duck duck goose helps nobody.

I think educating people about the effects of alcohol and drug consumption on a person's ability to consent may assist in helping people determine whether they want to take the risk. Again, I don't understand why people would rather risk irreparably harming someone to get their rocks off?

[Des-Bal]

I think educating people about the effects of alcohol and drug consumption on a person's ability to consent may assist in helping people determine whether they want to take the risk. Again, I don't understand why people would rather risk irreparably harming someone to get their rocks off?

Turning rape into a landmine that people randomly step on during the course of normal interaction rather than a heinous crime one person perpetrates against another robs the crime of all it's legitimacy.

[Saint Jade IV]

I think educating people about the effects of alcohol and drug consumption on a person's ability to consent may assist in helping people determine whether they want to take the risk. Again, I don't understand why people would rather risk irreparably harming someone to get their rocks off?

Turning rape into a landmine that people randomly step on during the course of normal interaction rather than a heinous crime one person perpetrates against another robs the crime of all it's legitimacy.

Except that it's not normal interaction. It's rape. The problem is that people don't understand that. They have normalised something which should not be normalised. It's kind of the definition of rape culture.

[Des-Bal]

Except that it's not normal interaction. It's rape. The problem is that people don't understand that. They have normalised something which should not be normalised. It's kind of the definition of rape culture.

Drinking is completely normal interaction, so is having sex. It is completely normal to drink and have sex. The problem is that no clear definition exists for how drunk someone has to be to be rendered incapable of consent.

[Saint Jade IV]

Except that it's not normal interaction. It's rape. The problem is that people don't understand that. They have normalised something which should not be normalised. It's kind of the definition of rape culture.

Drinking is completely normal interaction, so is having sex. It is completely normal to drink and have sex. The problem is that no clear definition exists for how drunk someone has to be to be rendered incapable of consent.

So why can't people err on the side of caution? If s/he seems to drunk, looks too drunk, or has drunk a lot, maybe just don't go there? Go home and jack off or flick the bean, or do whatever.