Regarding Rape Culture: Its Presence and Method of Attack

[Freelanderness]

How about multiple new stations reporting on how holding someone accountable for rape isn't justified? Because that I can do. Just look up the coverage of the Stuebenville case. (And plenty of others)

Oooh what a promising future they had, ohh look how their lives are falling apart - CNN (paraphrased and exaggerated for effect.) Huffpo article on the coverage

Truth be told though, I see comments implying justifying rape all over, from the boy in my class who said that Stanley raping Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire was justified because "she was uppity and needed to be brought down a peg" to the plethora of tweets following the highly publicized Steubenville case Enjoy a level of misogyny ... sadly found everywhere else or the link that the OP already showed Dumb Fucking Whore Registry

Remember Rehtaeh? Remember the harassment after her rape that led to her suicide?

Yes I remember Rehtaeh. I remember all the girls that the media actually covers. Which is to say, none of the girls who belong to minority groups, especially aboriginals who get raped in much higher numbers. Fucking rape culture.

Oh yeah and that girl who got "SLUT" and "WHORE" graffitied across her garage after she got pregnant from being raped. hurray more rape culture

[Individuality-ness]

Remember Rehtaeh? Remember the harassment after her rape that led to her suicide?

Yes I remember Rehtaeh. I remember all the girls that the media actually covers. Which is to say, none of the girls who belong to minority groups, especially aboriginals who get raped in much higher numbers. Fucking rape culture.

Pretty white girls get more coverage in general. I never hear about other minorities. Asians are like non-existent, to the point that we don't really have official figures for our group.

[Des-Bal]

How about multiple new stations reporting on how holding someone accountable for rape isn't justified? Because that I can do. Just look up the coverage of the Stuebenville case. (And plenty of others)

Oooh what a promising future they had, ohh look how their lives are falling apart - CNN (paraphrased and exaggerated for effect.) Huffpo article on the coverage

Truth be told though, I see comments implying justifying rape all over, from the boy in my class who said that Stanley raping Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire was justified because "she was uppity and needed to be brought down a peg" to the plethora of tweets following the highly publicized Steubenville case Enjoy a level of misogyny ... sadly found everywhere else or the link that the OP already showed Dumb Fucking Whore Registry

That CNN coverage despite all the hype is not calling rape justified. It's the standard "they're future is over" spiel that always comes out when a young person is sentenced.

I don't think anybody is denying that there are assholes on the internet. How exactly are internet commenters condoning rape any worse or more harmful than the internet commenters condoning murder?

[Des-Bal]

Yes I remember Rehtaeh. I remember all the girls that the media actually covers. Which is to say, none of the girls who belong to minority groups, especially aboriginals who get raped in much higher numbers. Fucking rape culture.

See here you seem to be implying that the media not caring about people who aren't white is endemic of the rape culture despite the fact that is universally true.

[Freelanderness]

Yes I remember Rehtaeh. I remember all the girls that the media actually covers. Which is to say, none of the girls who belong to minority groups, especially aboriginals who get raped in much higher numbers. Fucking rape culture.

See here you seem to be implying that the media not caring about people who aren't white is endemic of the rape culture despite the fact that is universally true.

You seem to have a failure to understand the kyriarchy, which I might add, ties directly into rape culture.

[Freelanderness]

How about multiple new stations reporting on how holding someone accountable for rape isn't justified? Because that I can do. Just look up the coverage of the Stuebenville case. (And plenty of others)

Oooh what a promising future they had, ohh look how their lives are falling apart - CNN (paraphrased and exaggerated for effect.) Huffpo article on the coverage

Truth be told though, I see comments implying justifying rape all over, from the boy in my class who said that Stanley raping Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire was justified because "she was uppity and needed to be brought down a peg" to the plethora of tweets following the highly publicized Steubenville case Enjoy a level of misogyny ... sadly found everywhere else or the link that the OP already showed Dumb Fucking Whore Registry

That CNN coverage despite all the hype is not calling rape justified. It's the standard "they're future is over" spiel that always comes out when a young person is sentenced.

I don't think anybody is denying that there are assholes on the internet. How exactly are internet commenters condoning rape any worse or more harmful than the internet commenters condoning murder?

Because rape leaves a victim alive?

[Des-Bal]

Because rape leaves a victim alive?

So rape victims should mourn the fact they weren't murdered?

[Des-Bal]

You seem to have a failure to understand the kyriarchy, which I might add, ties directly into rape culture.

So it's not an issue of rape culture it's just an issue of culture as a concept? You are causing me to drift further and further away from your position.

[Freelanderness]

Because rape leaves a victim alive?

So rape victims should mourn the fact they weren't murdered?

No. Rape victims have to deal with the psychological ramifications of the violence. Victims of murder don't.

Additionally, rape is never justified, but in our violence crazed, frothing at the mouth society, we justify murder in a number of ways, most notably revenge or honour.

You seem to have a failure to understand the kyriarchy, which I might add, ties directly into rape culture.

So it's not an issue of rape culture it's just an issue of culture as a concept? You are causing me to drift further and further away from your position.

Rape is linked with power.

Kyriarchy is a power structure.

Kyriarchy defines worth of people (based on race, gender, etc)

Ergo rape culture is a result of kyriarchy. Get it? I'm just tying the one issue into a bunch of other issues.

[Des-Bal]

No. Rape victims have to deal with the psychological ramifications of the violence. Victims of murder don't.

Additionally, rape is never justified, but in our violence crazed, frothing at the mouth society, we justify murder in a number of ways, most notably revenge or honour.

So rape is worse because we don't condone it?

[Freelanderness]

No. Rape victims have to deal with the psychological ramifications of the violence. Victims of murder don't.

Additionally, rape is never justified, but in our violence crazed, frothing at the mouth society, we justify murder in a number of ways, most notably revenge or honour.

So rape is worse because we don't condone it?

No, rape is worse because it's never justified. It's never an equaliser. Death is an equaliser. Rape just wreaks havoc on the victims.

EDIT: What I mean to say, is that rape can never really be morally condoned by any stretch, except as revenge for a previous rape. But in that very essence, it doesn't equalise the people, it simply fucks up more people.

Also considering the prevalence of sexual violence, ESPECIALLY against women, it often takes the form of a gendered hate crime. I'm not exactly articulate due to a stuffed nose and head, but I hope you're getting the point.

[Des-Bal]

No, rape is worse because it's never justified. It's never an equaliser. Death is an equaliser. Rape just wreaks havoc on the victims.

EDIT: What I mean to say, is that rape can never really be morally condoned by any stretch, except as revenge for a previous rape. But in that very essence, it doesn't equalise the people, it simply fucks up more people.

Also considering the prevalence of sexual violence, ESPECIALLY against women, it often takes the form of a gendered hate crime. I'm not exactly articulate due to a stuffed nose and head, but I hope you're getting the point.

You just described the reasons for justifying murder as the products of a violence crazed frothing at the mouth society.


You're saying that assholes on the internet supporting the rape of people they don't like is worse than assholes on the internet calling for the murder of people they don't like. The equalizing nature of death just doesn't come into play.

I'm also don't really think women who have been raped should kill themselves rather than suffer the emotional toil.

[Nazi Flower Power]

There's studies on all kinds of dumb shit. It wouldn't have to be specifically about funerals to be relevant.

But I'm also not seeing how, "There's no reason for anyone to do that study" is evidence against the idea that people try to sweep rape under the rug so they can ignore it. Even though my opinion is just a guess rather than a proven fact, I don't see any reason for me to change it without some decent evidence.

I don't see any reason for your opinion to be more valid than anyone elses meaning this tangent has reached the point where no further debate can be had.

Is that a reason I shouldn't post it?

Seriously, I don't know why you are coming in here and starting arguments with people that you have nothing of any substance to argue about with. You just did the same thing with Choronzon.

[Des-Bal]

Is that a reason I shouldn't post it?

Seriously, I don't know why you are coming in here and starting arguments with people that you have nothing of any substance to argue about with. You just did the same thing with Choronzon.

You're saying that the only reason to believe this symptom of the rape culture even exists is a blind guess. You're talking about rape victims being silenced, if there's nothing of substance there that's on you not me.

[Edlichbury]

Is that a reason I shouldn't post it?

Seriously, I don't know why you are coming in here and starting arguments with people that you have nothing of any substance to argue about with. You just did the same thing with Choronzon.

You're saying that the only reason to believe this symptom of the rape culture even exists is a blind guess. You're talking about rape victims being silenced, if there's nothing of substance there that's on you not me.

Except we provided multiple examples in this thread. Even the OP put up examples. There's a huge difference between us making a "blind guess" and you not even bothering to look at a single point of evidence before shrieking "NO RAPE CULTURE EXISTS!"

[Ostroeuropa]

Is that a reason I shouldn't post it?

Seriously, I don't know why you are coming in here and starting arguments with people that you have nothing of any substance to argue about with. You just did the same thing with Choronzon.

You're saying that the only reason to believe this symptom of the rape culture even exists is a blind guess. You're talking about rape victims being silenced, if there's nothing of substance there that's on you not me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stan

People finding this shit funny is pretty mainstream.
Incidentally, this is the moment I decided rob schneider was simply no longer worth acknowledging as an actor.
While he claims it's anti-male rape, all of the films comedy revolves around how funny it is that men get raped.

[Des-Bal]

Except we provided multiple examples in this thread. Even the OP put up examples. There's a huge difference between us making a "blind guess" and you not even bothering to look at a single point of evidence before shrieking "NO RAPE CULTURE EXISTS!"

If you'd like to get technical cultures exist around basically everything. I'm not shrieking in the least I'm saying that the idea people are more likely to shut down someone for talking about rape as opposed to death or any of the other things people don't really enjoy talking about is by Nazi Flowers own admission just a guess.

[Freelanderness]

No, rape is worse because it's never justified. It's never an equaliser. Death is an equaliser. Rape just wreaks havoc on the victims.

EDIT: What I mean to say, is that rape can never really be morally condoned by any stretch, except as revenge for a previous rape. But in that very essence, it doesn't equalise the people, it simply fucks up more people.

Also considering the prevalence of sexual violence, ESPECIALLY against women, it often takes the form of a gendered hate crime. I'm not exactly articulate due to a stuffed nose and head, but I hope you're getting the point.

You just described the reasons for justifying murder as the products of a violence crazed frothing at the mouth society.


You're saying that assholes on the internet supporting the rape of people they don't like is worse than assholes on the internet calling for the murder of people they don't like. The equalizing nature of death just doesn't come into play.

I'm also don't really think women who have been raped should kill themselves rather than suffer the emotional toil.

I don't support violence. Period. That is why I describe things that way.

But I understand that violence can be justifiable in certain contexts. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

But rape? Rape is never justifiable. It doesn't solve anything, even in the most ill-thought out way. Rape is a tool to inflict pain, and that is never justifiable. Hence why I consider rape to be worse than killing.

Rape and other sexual violence are also much more prevalent than killing crimes. Affecting 1 in 3 women/girls, and 1 in 5 men/boys, sexual violence is an extremely pervasive crime that is underreported, and not taken seriously (see our own members on this board and their experiences)

Let me pose you a question instead: If we are so eager to listen to victims, then why are they so often labelled whores/sluts/bitches or pussies/emasculated? We don't question what a murder victim was wearing...

[Ostroeuropa]

You just described the reasons for justifying murder as the products of a violence crazed frothing at the mouth society.


You're saying that assholes on the internet supporting the rape of people they don't like is worse than assholes on the internet calling for the murder of people they don't like. The equalizing nature of death just doesn't come into play.

I'm also don't really think women who have been raped should kill themselves rather than suffer the emotional toil.

I don't support violence. Period. That is why I describe things that way.

But I understand that violence can be justifiable in certain contexts. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

But rape? Rape is never justifiable. It doesn't solve anything, even in the most ill-thought out way. Rape is a tool to inflict pain, and that is never justifiable. Hence why I consider rape to be worse than killing.

Rape and other sexual violence are also much more prevalent than killing crimes. Affecting 1 in 3 women/girls, and 1 in 5 men/boys, sexual violence is an extremely pervasive crime that is underreported, and not taken seriously (see our own members on this board and their experiences)

Let me pose you a question instead: If we are so eager to listen to victims, then why are they so often labelled whores/sluts/bitches or pussies/emasculated? We don't question what a murder victim was wearing...

To be fair, the question "Did they have any enemies?" is very common and could imply "Did they do anything that'd make someone think they deserve it?"

[Nazi Flower Power]

Is that a reason I shouldn't post it?

Seriously, I don't know why you are coming in here and starting arguments with people that you have nothing of any substance to argue about with. You just did the same thing with Choronzon.

You're saying that the only reason to believe this symptom of the rape culture even exists is a blind guess. You're talking about rape victims being silenced, if there's nothing of substance there that's on you not me.

It's not a blind guess. It's a guess informed by the attitudes about sex and consent that I've run into in my personal experience. Is that irrefutable proof? No. But it's not like my personal opinion is the only thing anywhere on the entire planet that might suggest there is a problem with rape victims being silenced.

And if the problem is me then why are you picking fights in the same way with every other poster who complains about rape victims being silenced or rapists being let off the hook? You just did the same thing with Choronzon before you started it with me, and now you're going at it with Freelanderness too -- all in the same style of petty nitpicking and creating strawman versions of everything we say so you can pretend we are all stupid.

[Des-Bal]

It's not a blind guess. It's a guess informed by the attitudes about sex and consent that I've run into in my personal experience. Is that irrefutable proof? No. But it's not like my personal opinion is the only thing anywhere on the entire planet that might suggest there is a problem with rape victims being silenced.

And if the problem is me then why are you picking fights in the same way with every other poster who complains about rape victims being silenced or rapists being let off the hook? You just did the same thing with Choronzon before you started it with me, and now you're going at it with Freelanderness too -- all in the same style of petty nitpicking and creating strawman versions of everything we say so you can pretend we are all stupid.

If you have additional evidence please present it.


I'm not picking fights I'm engaging in discussions on this discussion forum. Choronzon engaged me presuming that I was telling people in this thread not to discuss their experiences.

I'm not creating strawmen I'm trying to locate the differences between your views and mine so we can understand each other better.

[Freelanderness]

I don't support violence. Period. That is why I describe things that way.

But I understand that violence can be justifiable in certain contexts. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

But rape? Rape is never justifiable. It doesn't solve anything, even in the most ill-thought out way. Rape is a tool to inflict pain, and that is never justifiable. Hence why I consider rape to be worse than killing.

Rape and other sexual violence are also much more prevalent than killing crimes. Affecting 1 in 3 women/girls, and 1 in 5 men/boys, sexual violence is an extremely pervasive crime that is underreported, and not taken seriously (see our own members on this board and their experiences)

Let me pose you a question instead: If we are so eager to listen to victims, then why are they so often labelled whores/sluts/bitches or pussies/emasculated? We don't question what a murder victim was wearing...

To be fair, the question "Did they have any enemies?" is very common and could imply "Did they do anything that'd make someone think they deserve it?"

I've actually never heard that line...

[Nazi Flower Power]

I don't support violence. Period. That is why I describe things that way.

But I understand that violence can be justifiable in certain contexts. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

But rape? Rape is never justifiable. It doesn't solve anything, even in the most ill-thought out way. Rape is a tool to inflict pain, and that is never justifiable. Hence why I consider rape to be worse than killing.

Rape and other sexual violence are also much more prevalent than killing crimes. Affecting 1 in 3 women/girls, and 1 in 5 men/boys, sexual violence is an extremely pervasive crime that is underreported, and not taken seriously (see our own members on this board and their experiences)

Let me pose you a question instead: If we are so eager to listen to victims, then why are they so often labelled whores/sluts/bitches or pussies/emasculated? We don't question what a murder victim was wearing...

To be fair, the question "Did they have any enemies?" is very common and could imply "Did they do anything that'd make someone think they deserve it?"

The question isn't "Did they do anything to piss the killer off?"

People ask "Did they have any enemies?" when they are trying to solve a murder, not because they are trying to justify it. Asking what a rape victim was wearing is different because it doesn't help you to solve the crime.

[Nazi Flower Power]

It's not a blind guess. It's a guess informed by the attitudes about sex and consent that I've run into in my personal experience. Is that irrefutable proof? No. But it's not like my personal opinion is the only thing anywhere on the entire planet that might suggest there is a problem with rape victims being silenced.

And if the problem is me then why are you picking fights in the same way with every other poster who complains about rape victims being silenced or rapists being let off the hook? You just did the same thing with Choronzon before you started it with me, and now you're going at it with Freelanderness too -- all in the same style of petty nitpicking and creating strawman versions of everything we say so you can pretend we are all stupid.

If you have additional evidence please present it.

The rest of the thread, where other people have described being silenced, seeing rape victims ridiculed by idiots on the internet, etc.

[Des-Bal]

I don't support violence. Period. That is why I describe things that way.

But I understand that violence can be justifiable in certain contexts. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

But rape? Rape is never justifiable. It doesn't solve anything, even in the most ill-thought out way. Rape is a tool to inflict pain, and that is never justifiable. Hence why I consider rape to be worse than killing.

Rape and other sexual violence are also much more prevalent than killing crimes. Affecting 1 in 3 women/girls, and 1 in 5 men/boys, sexual violence is an extremely pervasive crime that is underreported, and not taken seriously (see our own members on this board and their experiences)

Let me pose you a question instead: If we are so eager to listen to victims, then why are they so often labelled whores/sluts/bitches or pussies/emasculated? We don't question what a murder victim was wearing...

I don't really understand how you can both not support something but also see it as justifiable based on context.

Because people are dicks? I've known people to blame murder victims for who they associate with or choices they've made. I'm not denying people are sometimes dicks what I'm having trouble with is the idea that the culture surrounding rape is predominantly harmful.