Regarding Rape Culture: Its Presence and Method of Attack

[Individuality-ness]

I'm aware, I'm just saying that it still blames the victim for what a rapist chose to do, albeit indirectly. This doesn't solve anything.

Furthermore, this might be a bit of a stretch, but if rapists knew that victims are shamed for not reporting, it might give them incentive to make sure that they'd never report, ever.

The logical extension of that stretch is that if we combat rape culture, we'll end up increasing the number of murders. It's not a stretch i'm willing to consider. If only because i'm in a cynical mood and I know what the answer would be if I asked it before i've had my self-medication.

Okay, well, back to the first point. It still blames the victim for what a rapist chose to do, albeit indirectly. This doesn't solve anything. In fact, it just increases the burden on the victim and establishes the idea that people who don't report are really liars.

So in essence, this would be the opposite of counteracting rape culture.

[Ostroeuropa]

The logical extension of that stretch is that if we combat rape culture, we'll end up increasing the number of murders. It's not a stretch i'm willing to consider. If only because i'm in a cynical mood and I know what the answer would be if I asked it before i've had my self-medication.

Okay, well, back to the first point. It still blames the victim for what a rapist chose to do, albeit indirectly. This doesn't solve anything. In fact, it just increases the burden on the victim and establishes the idea that people who don't report are really liars.

So in essence, this would be the opposite of counteracting rape culture.

I agree. It's accepting that rape culture is here and how do we diminish it's effects.
Would you rather, given the choice, have the burden be on people who report or on people who don't report.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Oh I was talking about bystanders reporting it not the victims, I understand why the victims don't.
They probably don't have their head's together after such an experience.

Erm, no. In our current culture, not reporting a rape is an entirely rational decision. Choosing "let a rapist get away with it" over "get treated like shit, quite possibly receive death threats, have strangers on the internet pontificate about what a stupid whore I must be, lose many if not all of my friends and family and possibly my job, and incidentally the rapist will STILL probably get away with it" isn't a sign of "not having your head together" so much as "making a depressing but entirely sensible choice between a shitty option and and even shittier option."

Death threats? Really? I didn't think it was that bad...

[Ostroeuropa]

With good reason this time.
Blaming the victim if they do something wrong isn't blaming them for being a victim.
It's blaming them for allowing other people to become victims.
Therefore, it isn't victim-blaming.

I don't believe I can respond to this shit properly without breaking at least one forum rule.

Therefore, I'll just stick with saying that this position is wrong, it is sick, it is hateful, and it is shameful.

So no actual argument.
You're the type of person who calls it victim blaming if I stab a mugger 50 times aren't you.
"It's not my fault I was mugged, you know."
"That isn't what we're blaming you for."
"you sir, are sick hateful and shameful."

If the victim has, undeniably, done something wrong, they can be blamed for it.
Not reporting does, in fact, increase the likelyhood of a rapist going free.
They have done this for reasons which, while entirely understandable, are also bad reasons.

[The Grey Wolf]

Erm, no. In our current culture, not reporting a rape is an entirely rational decision. Choosing "let a rapist get away with it" over "get treated like shit, quite possibly receive death threats, have strangers on the internet pontificate about what a stupid whore I must be, lose many if not all of my friends and family and possibly my job, and incidentally the rapist will STILL probably get away with it" isn't a sign of "not having your head together" so much as "making a depressing but entirely sensible choice between a shitty option and and even shittier option."

Death threats? Really? I didn't think it was that bad...

It isn't.

[Individuality-ness]

Okay, well, back to the first point. It still blames the victim for what a rapist chose to do, albeit indirectly. This doesn't solve anything. In fact, it just increases the burden on the victim and establishes the idea that people who don't report are really liars.

So in essence, this would be the opposite of counteracting rape culture.

I agree. It's accepting that rape culture is here and how do we diminish it's effects.
Would you rather, given the choice, have the burden be on people who report or on people who don't report.

It's asinine to want to put the burden on anybody EXCEPT rapists. I'd rather encourage people to report, but not blame them if they don't.

[Ostroeuropa]

I agree. It's accepting that rape culture is here and how do we diminish it's effects.
Would you rather, given the choice, have the burden be on people who report or on people who don't report.

It's asinine to want to put the burden on anybody EXCEPT rapists. I'd rather encourage people to report, but not blame them if they don't.

The rapists are unlikely to care about pressure placed on them to not rape. In fact, they've demonstrated they absolutely don't care. It isn't asinine, it's practical.

[Individuality-ness]

Erm, no. In our current culture, not reporting a rape is an entirely rational decision. Choosing "let a rapist get away with it" over "get treated like shit, quite possibly receive death threats, have strangers on the internet pontificate about what a stupid whore I must be, lose many if not all of my friends and family and possibly my job, and incidentally the rapist will STILL probably get away with it" isn't a sign of "not having your head together" so much as "making a depressing but entirely sensible choice between a shitty option and and even shittier option."

Death threats? Really? I didn't think it was that bad...

Here you go.

[The Grey Wolf]

I agree. It's accepting that rape culture is here and how do we diminish it's effects.
Would you rather, given the choice, have the burden be on people who report or on people who don't report.

It's asinine to want to put the burden on anybody EXCEPT rapists. I'd rather encourage people to report, but not blame them if they don't.

^ This exactly.

[The Grey Wolf]

Death threats? Really? I didn't think it was that bad...

[img]http://thebipolarfeminist.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/20130318-144445.jpg?w=533&h=89[img]

That's a link, not an image.

[Individuality-ness]

It's asinine to want to put the burden on anybody EXCEPT rapists. I'd rather encourage people to report, but not blame them if they don't.

The rapists are unlikely to care about pressure placed on them to not rape. In fact, they've demonstrated they absolutely don't care. It isn't asinine, it's practical.

But some rapists might not know what they did is rape, and they could feel guilt.

Again, we should encourage people to report but don't blame them if they don't.

[Individuality-ness]

[img]http://thebipolarfeminist.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/20130318-144445.jpg?w=533&h=89[img]

That's a link, not an image.

I screw up.

[The Grey Wolf]

Death threats? Really? I didn't think it was that bad...

Here you go.

How is that rape culture? Some scumbag got mad because a rape victim reported her rape and they caught her scumbag cousin.

[Priory Academy USSR]

[img]http://thebipolarfeminist.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/20130318-144445.jpg?w=533&h=89[img]

That's a link, not an image.

It would be an image if it weren't for the mistake with the tags. Copying it into the browser works just as well.

@Indi-How...disturbing.

[Ostroeuropa]

The rapists are unlikely to care about pressure placed on them to not rape. In fact, they've demonstrated they absolutely don't care. It isn't asinine, it's practical.

But some rapists might not know what they did is rape, and they could feel guilt.

Again, we should encourage people to report but don't blame them if they don't.

If they didn't know what they did is rape, it's entirely impossible to influence their actions with shit like "rape is bad. it's the fault of the rapist."
Though yes, we can influence them by endorsing more education about consent and what constitutes rape. I'm entirely in favor of that.

For what reason shouldn't they be blamed for failure to report.

[Individuality-ness]

Here you go.

How is that rape culture? Some scumbag got mad because a rape victim reported her rape and they caught her scumbag cousin.

Because it's telling her "you fucking whore, next time I see you I will murder you for reporting my cousin". It's a threat to her life.

[The Grey Wolf]

That's a link, not an image.

I screw up.

Happens to everybody.

[Individuality-ness]

That's a link, not an image.

It would be an image if it weren't for the mistake with the tags. Copying it into the browser works just as well.

@Indi-How...disturbing.

It's just one example. And yes, it's very disturbing.

[The Grey Wolf]

How is that rape culture? Some scumbag got mad because a rape victim reported her rape and they caught her scumbag cousin.

Because it's telling her "you fucking whore, next time I see you I will murder you for reporting my cousin". It's a threat to her life.

I know that. But I don't see how it's rape culture.

[Nailed to the Perch]

I don't believe I can respond to this shit properly without breaking at least one forum rule.

Therefore, I'll just stick with saying that this position is wrong, it is sick, it is hateful, and it is shameful.

So no actual argument.
You're the type of person who calls it victim blaming if I stab a mugger 50 times aren't you.
"It's not my fault I was mugged, you know."
"That isn't what we're blaming you for."
"you sir, are sick hateful and shameful."

If the victim has, undeniably, done something wrong, they can be blamed for it.
Not reporting does, in fact, increase the likelyhood of a rapist going free.
They have done this for reasons which, while entirely understandable, are also bad reasons.

No, I'm the kind of person for whom this isn't some fucking abstract intellectual exercise to wank over.

You want to prance around feeling superior to rape survivors and blaming them for choosing not to destroy whatever is left of their lives after their rapists are done with them? You have fun with that. But THEY are not the ones who should feel ashamed.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Here you go.

How is that rape culture? Some scumbag got mad because a rape victim reported her rape and they caught her scumbag cousin.

Look, if you saw that directed at you, would you not feel the slightest bit insecure and hurt? Rape victims are probably at their psychological weakest at this point, so it would probably affect them even more: if you wanted to avoid that, the obvious solution is to shut up. Hence the problem.

[The Grey Wolf]

But some rapists might not know what they did is rape, and they could feel guilt.

Again, we should encourage people to report but don't blame them if they don't.

If they didn't know what they did is rape, it's entirely impossible to influence their actions with shit like "rape is bad. it's the fault of the rapist."
Though yes, we can influence them by endorsing more education about consent and what constitutes rape. I'm entirely in favor of that.

For what reason shouldn't they be blamed for failure to report.

"Hey b*tch, you squeal to the cops and I'll gut you and your entire family in your sleep."

[Individuality-ness]

But some rapists might not know what they did is rape, and they could feel guilt.

Again, we should encourage people to report but don't blame them if they don't.

If they didn't know what they did is rape, it's entirely impossible to influence their actions with shit like "rape is bad. it's the fault of the rapist."
Though yes, we can influence them by endorsing more education about consent and what constitutes rape. I'm entirely in favor of that.

For what reason shouldn't they be blamed for failure to report.

Blaming them for not reporting is essentially blaming them for any future occurrences, not to mention, again, it would imply that because the victim didn't report, it didn't really happen, which again counteracts what you're trying to do.

[Ostroeuropa]

So no actual argument.
You're the type of person who calls it victim blaming if I stab a mugger 50 times aren't you.
"It's not my fault I was mugged, you know."
"That isn't what we're blaming you for."
"you sir, are sick hateful and shameful."

If the victim has, undeniably, done something wrong, they can be blamed for it.
Not reporting does, in fact, increase the likelyhood of a rapist going free.
They have done this for reasons which, while entirely understandable, are also bad reasons.

No, I'm the kind of person for whom this isn't some fucking abstract intellectual exercise to wank over.

You want to prance around feeling superior to rape survivors and blaming them for choosing not to destroy whatever is left of their lives after their rapists are done with them? You have fun with that. But THEY are not the ones who should feel ashamed.

They shouldn't feel ashamed for being victims. Should they feel ashamed for allowing other people to be victims.

[Individuality-ness]

Because it's telling her "you fucking whore, next time I see you I will murder you for reporting my cousin". It's a threat to her life.

I know that. But I don't see how it's rape culture.

It's encouraging future rape victims to not report, because this could be YOU next. It's shaming someone for reporting. It's rape culture.