Regarding Rape Culture: Its Presence and Method of Attack

[Individuality-ness]

BACK TO TOPIC:

Ms. Serena Williams victim-blames Steubenville rape victim.

I mean, yeah, I don't particularly know why we think athletes are particularly valuable insights into social commentary. These people aren't paid to think.

They're not, but unfortunately people will look up to these people as role models.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

We'll deal with any problems if and when they arise. Now please - back on topic so we don't have to close this too. And cut the puppetspam, per favore. Thanks.

[Neo Art]

per favore.

Can't tell if typo or Italian.

[Cannot think of a name]

I make one off hand comment and go grab a bit and the whole thing goes off a cliff...

Since I'm part of the problem, I'll make a half assed attempt at being part of the solution by poaching someone else's notions on rape culture and humor (which ironically enough is also about poaching other people's material):

There’s no “evidence” of a “rape culture” in this country. I’ve never wanted to rape anyone, so why am I being lumped in as the enemy? If these bloggers and feminists make “rape jokes” taboo, or “rape” as a subject off-limits no matter what the approach, then it’ll just lead to more censorship.

They sure sound familiar to me because I, at various points, was saying them. Either out loud, or to myself, or to other comedian and non-comedian friends when we would argue about this. I had my viewpoint, and it was based on solid experience, and it…was…fucking…wrong.

Let’s go backwards through those bullshit conclusions, shall we? First off: no one is trying to make rape, as a subject, off-limits. No one is talking about censorship. In this past week of re-reading the blogs, going through the comment threads, and re-scrolling the Twitter arguments, I haven’t once found a single statement, feminist or otherwise, saying that rape shouldn’t be joked under any circumstance, regardless of context. Not one example of this.

In fact, every viewpoint I’ve read on this, especially from feminists, is simply asking to kick upward, to think twice about who is the target of the punchline, and make sure it isn’t the victim.

Why, after all of my years of striving to write original material (and, at times, becoming annoyingly self-righteous about it) and struggling find new viewpoints or untried approaches to any subject, did I suddenly balk and protest when an articulate, intelligent and, at times, angry contingent of people were asking my to apply the same principles to the subject of rape? Any edgy or taboo subject can become just as hackneyed as an acceptable or non-controversial one if the exact same approach is made every time. But I wasn’t willing to hear that.

And let’s go back even further. I’ve never wanted to rape anyone. Never had the impulse. So why was I feeling like I was being lumped in with those who were, or who took a cavalier attitude about rape, or even made rape jokes to begin with? Why did I feel some massive, undeserved sense of injustice about my place in this whole controversy?

The answer to that is in the first incorrect assumption. The one that says there’s no a “rape culture” in this country. How can there be? I’ve never wanted to rape anyone.

Do you see the illogic in that leap? I didn’t at first. Missed it completely. So let’s look at some similar examples:

Just because you 100% believe that comedians don’t write their own jokes doesn’t make it so. And making the leap from your evidence-free belief to dismissing comedians who complain about joke theft is willful ignorance on your part, invoked for your own comfort. Same way with heckling. Just because you 100% feel that a show wherein a heckler disrupted the evening was better than one that didn’t have that disruption does not make it the truth. And to make the leap from your own personal memory to insisting that comedians feel the same way that you do is indefensible horseshit.

And just because I find rape disgusting, and have never had that impulse, doesn’t mean I can make a leap into the minds of women and dismiss how they feel day to day, moment to moment, in ways both blatant and subtle, from other men, and the way the media represents the world they live in, and from what they hear in songs, see in movies, and witness on stage in a comedy club.

There is a collective consciousness that can detect the presence (and approach) of something good or bad, in society or the world, before any hard “evidence” exists. It’s happening now with the concept of “rape culture.” Which, by the way, isn’t a concept. It’s a reality. I’m just not the one who’s going to bring it into focus. But I’ve read enough viewpoints, and spoken to enough of my female friends (comedians and non-comedians) to know it isn’t some vaporous hysteria, some false meme or convenient catch-phrase.

I’m a comedian. I value and love what I do. And I value and love the fact that this sort of furious debate is going on about the art form I’ve decided to spend my life pursuing. If it wasn’t, it would mean all of the joke thief defenders and heckler supporters are right, that stand-up comedy is some low, disposable form of carnival distraction, a party trick anyone can do. It’s obviously not. This debate proves it. And I don’t want to be on the side of the debate that only argues from its own limited experience. And I don’t need the sense memory of an actor, or a degree from Columbia, or a moody, desert god to tell me that.

I’m a man. I get to be wrong. And I get to change.

It's only a portion of the whole thing, the rest is here.

[Condunum]

per favore.

Can't tell if typo or Italian.

I thought the same thing...

Given that it's DLN, I'm going with italian... I don't want an angry biker chick after me.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Alright back on track, how does the OP feel about, people who were accused of rape, but weren't convicted or had the charges dropped?

Regarding false accusations, this post sums up my thoughts on it well.

Theres one or two missing there. Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Rumors spread and Alice claims Bob raped her to save her image.

or

Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Alice is married, and her husband finds out. Alice cries rape to avert blame from herself and save her relationship.

I've seen BOTH happen.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Can't tell if typo or Italian.

I thought the same thing...

Given that it's DLN, I'm going with italian... I don't want an angry biker chick after me.

It is Italian.

[The Serbian Empire]

I thought the same thing...

Given that it's DLN, I'm going with italian... I don't want an angry biker chick after me.

It is Italian.

Mama Mia, just as we expected.

[Individuality-ness]

Regarding false accusations, this post sums up my thoughts on it well.

Theres one or two missing there. Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Rumors spread and Alice claims Bob raped her to save her image.

or

Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Alice is married, and her husband finds out. Alice cries rape to avert blame from herself and save her relationship.

I've seen BOTH happen.

See 2. and 3. and 4.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Regarding false accusations, this post sums up my thoughts on it well.

Theres one or two missing there. Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Rumors spread and Alice claims Bob raped her to save her image.

or

Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Alice is married, and her husband finds out. Alice cries rape to avert blame from herself and save her relationship.

I've seen BOTH happen.

your desperation to defend rapists is telling.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Theres one or two missing there. Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Rumors spread and Alice claims Bob raped her to save her image.

or

Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Alice is married, and her husband finds out. Alice cries rape to avert blame from herself and save her relationship.

I've seen BOTH happen.

your desperation to defend rapists is telling.

And there you go. Ascribing moral connotations to people because they make an argument. If I question something, you brand me a rapist.

[The Steel Magnolia]

your desperation to defend rapists is telling.

And there you go. Ascribing moral connotations to people because they make an argument. If I question something, you brand me a rapist.

Where did I brand you a rapist?

[Esternial]

Regarding false accusations, this post sums up my thoughts on it well.

Theres one or two missing there. Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Rumors spread and Alice claims Bob raped her to save her image.

or

Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Alice is married, and her husband finds out. Alice cries rape to avert blame from herself and save her relationship.

I've seen BOTH happen.

Number 2 is just the same as Number 1.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

And there you go. Ascribing moral connotations to people because they make an argument. If I question something, you brand me a rapist.

Where did I brand you a rapist?

You just did. my "desperation" to defend rapists is "telling". Telling of what? It's obvious what your insinuating. Don't play coy.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Theres one or two missing there. Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Rumors spread and Alice claims Bob raped her to save her image.

or

Bob and Alice have consensual sex. Alice is married, and her husband finds out. Alice cries rape to avert blame from herself and save her relationship.

I've seen BOTH happen.

Number 2 is just the same as Number 1.

Eh, okay fair point.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Where did I brand you a rapist?

You just did. my "desperation" to defend rapists is "telling". Telling of what? It's obvious what your insinuating. Don't play coy.

Nah, it's telling that you don't want there to be a rape problem. You don't want to be lumped in with the group that predominantly does it.

Which is fine, but instead of pretending the problem doesn't exist, why don't you work to solve it instead?

[Condunum]

Where did I brand you a rapist?

You just did. my "desperation" to defend rapists is "telling". Telling of what? It's obvious what your insinuating. Don't play coy.

No, it's obvious what you want her to be insinuating.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

You just did. my "desperation" to defend rapists is "telling". Telling of what? It's obvious what your insinuating. Don't play coy.

Nah, it's telling that you don't want there to be a rape problem. You don't want to be lumped in with the group that predominantly does it.

Which is fine, but instead of pretending the problem doesn't exist, why don't you work to solve it instead?

There is a rape problem. As long as rape exists it is a problem. I was simply saying that her post left something out.



But there is a problem. And, and unfortunately until something changes a lot of good people are gonna get shit housed, on both sides of the aisle.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I mean, yeah, I don't particularly know why we think athletes are particularly valuable insights into social commentary. These people aren't paid to think.

They're not, but unfortunately people will look up to these people as role models.

I think we can also include Celebrities in that mix.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Nah, it's telling that you don't want there to be a rape problem. You don't want to be lumped in with the group that predominantly does it.

Which is fine, but instead of pretending the problem doesn't exist, why don't you work to solve it instead?

There is a rape problem. As long as rape exists it is a problem. I was simply saying that her post left something out.



But there is a problem. And, and unfortunately until something changes a lot of good people are gonna get shit housed, on both sides of the aisle.

Yeah but pretending that it's at all equal is asinine and unhelpful and makes you a rape apologist.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Yeah not that victim was lying or anything.

Indeed. Because the majority of the time, he/she was not.

Says an inherently flawed study.

[Pagan Hungary]

This thread has a lot of negative energy.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Indeed. Because the majority of the time, he/she was not.

Says an inherently flawed study.

No, says literally every study ever done on the subject. Even the completely bullshit Kanin study MRA types like to pull out still puts "unfounded" rape claims in the minority.

[Cenetra]

I think certain posters in here may find this helpful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[Tarsonis Survivors]

There is a rape problem. As long as rape exists it is a problem. I was simply saying that her post left something out.



But there is a problem. And, and unfortunately until something changes a lot of good people are gonna get shit housed, on both sides of the aisle.

Yeah but pretending that it's at all equal is asinine and unhelpful and makes you a rape apologist.

OH so now i'm not i'm a rapist, I'm a rape apologist.

I see. Still a scumbag, just not the scumbag I originally thought you were calling me.

Gotcha.