The United States was NOT founded on Christianity

[Genivaria]

How moral was it to cover up mass child sexual abuse?

The Church itself did not do so, a few corrupt members did. The Church cannot be blamed for the actions of its members.

Yes actually it can, when the church leaders do more to cover up the rapes then they do to stop the rapes you bet your ass we can blame the Church itself.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Like God?

Oh Boy, do you honestly want to have this discussion?

I've had this discussion on several occasions, an example of which being a link in my sig.

[Divair]

So there aren't really 1.2 billion Catholics?

Well, I'm not really sure the rate at which people are leaving, but no, there aren't.

The more you know. I'm not surprised they'd do something like this.

[Genivaria]

THAT"S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING! What is moral is what is good for everyone, or the most people if it can't be good for everyone. But religion-based morality is "what is moral is what God said, no matter who it is good or bad for." See?

God knows and wants what is best for everyone.

Drowning does not fall under 'what is best for everyone'.

[Nidaria]

And it's morality HAS changed throughout history, slowly yes but it changes nonetheless. Learn some history.

No it hasn't, if you go to Jerusalem and start cutting off the heads of Muslims, and you die in the process, you go to heaven no questions asked.

It was never moral to do so.

[Thafoo]

God knows and wants what is best for everyone.

Drowning does not fall under 'what is best for everyone'.

Or for that matter, anyone on this list

[Tarsonis Survivors]

wat. So you can never leave?

Well, not by just renouncing your faith in the church or god in general no.
Joseph Goebbels was excommunicated from the Church (the only Nazi to have been) for the unforgivable act of marrying a protestant woman.

Which is interesting, for Paul preached it was okay to marry outside the faith.

[Genivaria]

No it hasn't, if you go to Jerusalem and start cutting off the heads of Muslims, and you die in the process, you go to heaven no questions asked.

It was never moral to do so.

So the Catholic Church ISN'T the arbiter of morality? Because they sure as hell said it was moral back then.

[Ganos Lao]

No it hasn't, if you go to Jerusalem and start cutting off the heads of Muslims, and you die in the process, you go to heaven no questions asked.

It was never moral to do so.

But you said that the morality of the Church never changes. You said that its morality is the same across all eras. Was that, therefore, not a righteous deed?

[Nidaria]

God knows and wants what is best for everyone.

Drowning does not fall under 'what is best for everyone'.

It was best for humanity to eliminate evil. Since everyone but Noah and his family were irrevocably evil, the future of humanity would be bleak unless the evil was destroyed.

[Shaggai]

God knows and wants what is best for everyone.

Then why does the Bible involve the killing of all the random people who the Israelites didn't like? I mean, seriously, look at Exodus. Pharaoh was about to let them go, but no, God decided that he wanted them to stay a little longer so he could kill every one of the firstborn of the Egyptians. Is that what's best for everyone? Killing off all of the innocent children who had no say in oppressing the Israelites?

[Nidaria]

It was never moral to do so.

But you said that the morality of the Church never changes. You said that its morality is the same across all eras. Was that, therefore, not a righteous deed?

The Church never condoned that, but rather has held that murder is immoral.

[Thafoo]

Drowning does not fall under 'what is best for everyone'.

It was best for humanity to eliminate evil. Since everyone but Noah and his family were irrevocably evil, the future of humanity would be bleak unless the evil was destroyed.

Even all the newborns were evil? God sounds like a dick.

[The Grey Wolf]

I don't know, maybe this.

While I agree that is a tragedy, do you realize how many small children Hitler co-ordinated the deaths of? Really.

You want to get rid of a race, you can't leave the children lying around. Not justifying it, just stating the facts.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Drowning does not fall under 'what is best for everyone'.

It was best for humanity to eliminate evil. Since everyone but Noah and his family were irrevocably evil, the future of humanity would be bleak unless the evil was destroyed.

There are easier ways for an omnipotent God to remove evil than slaughtering millions.

[Genivaria]

Drowning does not fall under 'what is best for everyone'.

It was best for humanity to eliminate evil. Since everyone but Noah and his family were irrevocably evil, the future of humanity would be bleak unless the evil was destroyed.

So children are 'irrevocably evil'?
This is why your morality fails.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Oh Boy, do you honestly want to have this discussion?

I've had this discussion on several occasions, an example of which being a link in my sig.

And I'm pretty sure I argued with you there, that you're Idea of God being melavolent, is based on a flawed perspective.

[Thafoo]

While I agree that is a tragedy, do you realize how many small children Hitler co-ordinated the deaths of? Really.

You want to get rid of a race, you can't leave the children lying around. Not justifying it, just stating the facts.

Dude, he killed everyone he could.

[Nidaria]

It was best for humanity to eliminate evil. Since everyone but Noah and his family were irrevocably evil, the future of humanity would be bleak unless the evil was destroyed.

Even all the newborns were evil?quote]
You sure there were newborns? The whole population could very well have practiced contraception.

[Ganos Lao]

But you said that the morality of the Church never changes. You said that its morality is the same across all eras. Was that, therefore, not a righteous deed?

The Church never condoned that, but rather has held that murder is immoral.

Never condoned that? So why did they say "God wills it!" and get the Crusaders over there in the first place?

Also, are you going to address the examples I offered you? If God wants the best for everyone, how was it the best thing for Polly Klaas, Grace Budd, etc to end up like they did?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

It was best for humanity to eliminate evil. Since everyone but Noah and his family were irrevocably evil, the future of humanity would be bleak unless the evil was destroyed.

There are easier ways for an omnipotent God to remove evil than slaughtering millions.

Like how?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The Church never condoned that, but rather has held that murder is immoral.

Never condoned that? So why did they say "God wills it!" and get the Crusaders over there in the first place?

Also, are you going to address the examples I offered you? If God wants the best for everyone, how was it the best thing for Polly Klaas, Grace Budd, etc to end up like they did?

Well to be fair, the Crusades weren't considered Murder, but Righteous warfare.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

I've had this discussion on several occasions, an example of which being a link in my sig.

And I'm pretty sure I argued with you there, that you're Idea of God being melavolent, is based on a flawed perspective.

Let me guess, "You can't judge God by our moral standards"?

[Shaggai]

But you said that the morality of the Church never changes. You said that its morality is the same across all eras. Was that, therefore, not a righteous deed?

The Church never condoned that, but rather has held that murder is immoral.

I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to pers­e all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it is meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it

Accordingly undertake this journey for the remission of your sins, with the assurance of the imperishable glory of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Is that not condoning it?

[Thafoo]

Even all the newborns were evil?

You sure there were newborns? The whole population could very well have practiced contraception.

How dafuq would there be life if everyone used contraception?