The United States was NOT founded on Christianity

[Genivaria]

I have to commit heresy or assault the Pope.

And I'm not visiting Vatican City for another few months.

So, wait, doesn't leaving the church automatically excommunicate you for heresy?

They still keep you on the books just to keep the numbers up on paper.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

I'm fairly certain the Orthodox believe the Church is infallible as well.

::looks around for Distruzio:: Speak of the devil and he shall appear.

I like Distruzio. He taught me things.

[Thafoo]

...Really?!

Yeah, really.

Tell me, who?

[Divair]

So, wait, doesn't leaving the church automatically excommunicate you for heresy?

They still keep you on the books just to keep the numbers up on paper.

wat. So you can never leave?

[The Rich Port]

I'm not going to play this retarded game you came up with.

In your own words, I said it, therefore it's true.

No, you need to do the whole "It's logical, therefore stfu" thing.

I thought that was Cosara's thing.

"Circular logic is my logic" and such.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Meh, I've heard of worse.

Like God?

Oh Boy, do you honestly want to have this discussion?

[Nationalist State of Knox]

They still keep you on the books just to keep the numbers up on paper.

wat. So you can never leave?

Unless you're excommunicated.

[The Grey Wolf]

Meh, I've heard of worse.

Like God?

Well, he was number two on my list.

[Ganos Lao]

Because he is a bad, bad man, of course. That's what hell is traditionally seen as, after all, a home for people like that.

Now in Christian circles, a guy like Hitler could easily get into Heaven if he just accepted Christ into his life, but not only does that cause controversy among people, seeing how people may find it grossly improper to see a guy like that up there, but how he accepts Christ is another issue, because we all know so many denominations of Christianity exist.....

Eh, he committed suicide which is widely regarded as an unforgivable sin. And we could try to trace that back logically to denote that Suicide = Blasphemy. (though doing so would raise so many philisophical questions)

But even, if he did accept Christ (which he didn't) and Hadn't committed Suicide (which he did), he'd have to repent his whole genocidal fuckhead agenda (which he wouldn't).

My point is that traditional views of Heaven and Hell boil down to "go up if you're good, go down if you're bad".

Hell, if you think about it, you don't need to be a Christian, or in any religion, to believe in these things. There are probably people who think Heaven looks like something out of The Lovely Bones or something.

[Genivaria]

So what is morality to you? Roman Catholic morality? Which sort? Pre or Post Vatican II? Do you believe the principle of Ecclesiam nulla salus? What do you think of other Christian denominations?

The Roman Catholic Church is the primary moral teacher in the world. Its morality is the same across all eras, because morality does not change. Yes, I believe in it, but there are "life-ropes" that can allow a non-Catholic to find enlightenment. Other Christian denominations can be correct to various degrees, but all are invariably incorrect.

And it's morality HAS changed throughout history, slowly yes but it changes nonetheless. Learn some history.

[Divair]

wat. So you can never leave?

Unless you're excommunicated.

So there aren't really 1.2 billion Catholics?

[Nidaria]

Pragmatist or utilitarian morality is not morality at all. What is moral is good for everyone.

What is moral is good for everyone.

What is moral is good for everyone.

What is moral is good for everyone.

THAT"S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING! What is moral is what is good for everyone, or the most people if it can't be good for everyone. But religion-based morality is "what is moral is what God said, no matter who it is good or bad for." See?

God knows and wants what is best for everyone.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

::looks around for Distruzio:: Speak of the devil and he shall appear.

I like Distruzio. He taught me things.

I like him too. While I ultimately disagree with him on certain things, he has made me analyze my own faith, and made me a better Christian for it.

[Ganos Lao]

So what is morality to you? Roman Catholic morality? Which sort? Pre or Post Vatican II? Do you believe the principle of Ecclesiam nulla salus? What do you think of other Christian denominations?

The Roman Catholic Church is the primary moral teacher in the world. Its morality is the same across all eras, because morality does not change. Yes, I believe in it, but there are "life-ropes" that can allow a non-Catholic to find enlightenment. Other Christian denominations can be correct to various degrees, but all are invariably incorrect.

How moral was it to cover up mass child sexual abuse?

[The Grey Wolf]

Yeah, really.

Tell me, who?

I don't know, maybe this.

[Empire of Symphonia]

America was not founded on religion. It was founded on resistance against non-representation in Parliament, resistance against perceived trade restrictions, resistance against too many implied powers of the unwritten British constitution. Plain and simple.

But why is this thread kind of inching towards bashing religion? We already have plenty of other threads about that.
BTW, I am religious (Roman Catholic), so I am kinda offended because some people are implying that we are all bigots and fools. Some of us are actually intelligent human beings like the rest of you.

[Thafoo]

Like God?

Oh Boy, do you honestly want to have this discussion?

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/godkills.htm

[Divair]

The Roman Catholic Church is the primary moral teacher in the world. Its morality is the same across all eras, because morality does not change. Yes, I believe in it, but there are "life-ropes" that can allow a non-Catholic to find enlightenment. Other Christian denominations can be correct to various degrees, but all are invariably incorrect.

How moral was it to cover up mass child sexual abuse?

I can already tell you the answer: There is no mass child sexual abuse. It's all created by liberal secularist leftists to discredit the church.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Unless you're excommunicated.

So there aren't really 1.2 billion Catholics?

Well, I'm not really sure the rate at which people are leaving, but no, there aren't.

[Nidaria]

The Roman Catholic Church is the primary moral teacher in the world. Its morality is the same across all eras, because morality does not change. Yes, I believe in it, but there are "life-ropes" that can allow a non-Catholic to find enlightenment. Other Christian denominations can be correct to various degrees, but all are invariably incorrect.

How moral was it to cover up mass child sexual abuse?

The Church itself did not do so, a few corrupt members did. The Church cannot be blamed for the actions of its members.

[Genivaria]

They still keep you on the books just to keep the numbers up on paper.

wat. So you can never leave?

Well, not by just renouncing your faith in the church or god in general no.
Joseph Goebbels was excommunicated from the Church (the only Nazi to have been) for the unforgivable act of marrying a protestant woman.

[Ganos Lao]

THAT"S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING! What is moral is what is good for everyone, or the most people if it can't be good for everyone. But religion-based morality is "what is moral is what God said, no matter who it is good or bad for." See?

God knows and wants what is best for everyone.

He does? Explain Polly Klaas, Grace Budd, etc. What did God want for them that would be "the best"?

[Thafoo]

Tell me, who?

I don't know, maybe this.

While I agree that is a tragedy, do you realize how many small children Hitler co-ordinated the deaths of? Really.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The Roman Catholic Church is the primary moral teacher in the world. Its morality is the same across all eras, because morality does not change. Yes, I believe in it, but there are "life-ropes" that can allow a non-Catholic to find enlightenment. Other Christian denominations can be correct to various degrees, but all are invariably incorrect.

And it's morality HAS changed throughout history, slowly yes but it changes nonetheless. Learn some history.

No it hasn't, if you go to Jerusalem and start cutting off the heads of Muslims, and you die in the process, you go to heaven no questions asked.

[Ganos Lao]

How moral was it to cover up mass child sexual abuse?

The Church itself did not do so, a few corrupt members did. The Church cannot be blamed for the actions of its members.

But all atheists can be blamed for the actions of members of their community?