The United States was NOT founded on Christianity

[Shaggai]

Plenty of atheists have morality. Their morality just isn't based on fear of getting eternally tortured in hell, it's motivated by what they think is best for humanity. It's motivated by wanting to help others, not by selfishly wanting a reward in heaven or fearing a punishment in hell.

Religious morality is not based on fear either. Punishment of evil is not coercion, simply justice. Atheists do not have a central concept of morality, and many reject morality completely. That is your philosophy. You should study religion more.

Yeah, that's true. That sort of thing is the main reason why I'm mostly not opposed to religion. Believing in heaven isn't selfish; basing your morals on what will get you to heaven is selfish. If human sacrifice would get you to heaven, would you do it? I dislike religion-based morality because it's so arbitrary. If the church or bible or whatever teaches something, it is good, no matter what they teach?

[Thafoo]

Do you even know what cynical means?

Apparently not.

It is another one of those words people use everywhere to make people point at them and say, "They used a big word! They must be rich or a secret agent." Just like quantum.

[Nidaria]

Religious morality is not based on fear either. Punishment of evil is not coercion, simply justice. Atheists do not have a central concept of morality, and many reject morality completely. That is your philosophy. You should study religion more.

Studying religion is the main path to atheism actually. That's why Atheists tend to be the most knowledgeable about religion.

Demonstrably false. Studying religion is the main cause of ex-atheists. If what you claimed was true, then ecclesiastics would be atheists.

[Divair]

Studying religion is the main path to atheism actually. That's why Atheists tend to be the most knowledgeable about religion.

I can confirm this from my own experience. Nothing beats thirteen years of Catholicism out of you like reading the Bible.

Unless you aren't religious in the first place.

Then it's even easier.

[Nidaria]

Religious morality is not based on fear either. Punishment of evil is not coercion, simply justice. Atheists do not have a central concept of morality, and many reject morality completely. That is your philosophy. You should study religion more.

Yeah, that's true. That sort of thing is the main reason why I'm mostly not opposed to religion. Believing in heaven isn't selfish; basing your morals on what will get you to heaven is selfish. If human sacrifice would get you to heaven, would you do it? I dislike religion-based morality because it's so arbitrary. If the church or bible or whatever teaches something, it is good, no matter what they teach?

If it is based on the Will of God, which is permanent and immutable, then it is good.

[Ganos Lao]

If it is based on the Will of God, which is permanent and immutable, then it is good.

Which God's will, though?

[Nidaria]

Studying religion is the main path to atheism actually. That's why Atheists tend to be the most knowledgeable about religion.

I can confirm this from my own experience. Nothing beats thirteen years of Catholicism out of you like reading the Bible.

Someone probably taught you a false interpretation of the Bible.

[The Grey Wolf]

Apparently not.

It is another one of those words people use everywhere to make people point at them and say, "They used a big word! They must be rich or a secret agent." Just like quantum.

I am I pressed how well you claim to know my psyche.
Cynical wasn't the best word. Probably "arrogant." that's a better word.

[Genivaria]

Studying religion is the main path to atheism actually. That's why Atheists tend to be the most knowledgeable about religion.

Demonstrably false. Studying religion is the main cause of ex-atheists. If what you claimed was true, then ecclesiastics would be atheists.

Wrong.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/28 ... y-20100928
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enl ... t-religion
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39397251/ns/u ... -religion/
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/us/28 ... .html?_r=0

Would you like to retract your statement or continue lying?

[Seven Suns]

Many founding father were Athiest

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Utter lies. We get our morality from our upbringing and cultural exposure, and believe it or not, most atheists get through life without becoming vicious paranoid psychopaths because of a lack of Holy Scripture.

Upbringing influences our attitude toward morality, not morality itself. Sure they do, but they are held in check mainly by personality traits or fear of the law.

Deriving your morality from fear of the law is almost as bad as deriving your morality from fear of Hell. It's essentially false morality.

True morality is passed through generations; whether it be from your parents, or your culture. You can't develop properly without both of those factors.

[Thafoo]

If it is based on the Will of God, which is permanent and immutable, then it is good.

Which God's will, though?

The will of my god, the true god, Tamitikiliktikilitik. The will of The All Powerful is for me to slay 3 sheep and to burn an unholy item or place (usually rival villages) decided by cracks in an Oracle Bone.

[Ganos Lao]

Now, to be fair, it's not about being selfish when it comes to believing in heaven. Some do just because they think it'd be a better place. They're afraid or otherwise unwilling to believe that this life is all that there is. Think about those times when a loved one dies and they say they're in a better place. Hell, I'm sure that being a dirt poor peasant made you believe in religion, in the idea of a heaven, because, fuck me, there's got to be something better than this, right?

Yeah, that's true. That sort of thing is the main reason why I'm mostly not opposed to religion. Believing in heaven isn't selfish; basing your morals on what will get you to heaven is selfish. If human sacrifice would get you to heaven, would you do it? I dislike religion-based morality because it's so arbitrary. If the church or bible or whatever teaches something, it is good, no matter what they teach?

The same can be said of Hell. People traditionally ascribe hell, or at least something similar to it, as the inevitable dwelling place of the bad people in the world. Your Albert Fishes, your Adolf Hitlers, your Saddam Husseins, etc, etc. Remember the Amanda Berry story recently? When you look at the guy who did that crap to her and the other girls, you'd see people saying, damn, he's gonna fry in hell, right? The idea that such people would escape such a fate because there is no hell at all....well, that too is an unpleasant thought. What I'm saying is that, in the interest of fairness, a lot of people throughout time have clung to this stuff because it makes them happy, it makes them comfortable. Now we can tell them that they're dumbasses who can't see reason, but as long as they're not bothering people with it, who really cares what they think?

[Nationalist State of Knox]

I can confirm this from my own experience. Nothing beats thirteen years of Catholicism out of you like reading the Bible.

Unless you aren't religious in the first place.

Then it's even easier.

It's far more liberating this way.

[Divair]

Many founding father were Athiest

Not openly, no. Plenty of deists, though, and quite a few of those tended to be closet atheists.

[Thafoo]

It is another one of those words people use everywhere to make people point at them and say, "They used a big word! They must be rich or a secret agent." Just like quantum.

I am I pressed how well you claim to know my psyche.
Cynical wasn't the best word. Probably "arrogant." that's a better word.

One arrogant atheist does not speak for all atheists.

[Thafoo]

Many founding father were Athiest

A better word would be skeptics.

[Shaggai]

If it is based on the Will of God, which is permanent and immutable, then it is good.

But God's will is so arbitrary. When was the last time you stoned an adulterer to death?

[Divair]

Unless you aren't religious in the first place.

Then it's even easier.

It's far more liberating this way.

What, to leave a religion? I dunno, I feel pretty free being irreligious from birth.

[The Grey Wolf]

Yeah, that's true. That sort of thing is the main reason why I'm mostly not opposed to religion. Believing in heaven isn't selfish; basing your morals on what will get you to heaven is selfish. If human sacrifice would get you to heaven, would you do it? I dislike religion-based morality because it's so arbitrary. If the church or bible or whatever teaches something, it is good, no matter what they teach?

The same can be said of Hell. People traditionally ascribe hell, or at least something similar to it, as the inevitable dwelling place of the bad people in the world. Your Albert Fishes, your Adolf Hitlers, your Saddam Husseins, etc, etc. Remember the Amanda Berry story recently? When you look at the guy who did that crap to her and the other girls, you'd see people saying, damn, he's gonna fry in hell, right? The idea that such people would escape such a fate because there is no hell at all....well, that too is an unpleasant thought. What I'm saying is that, in the interest of fairness, a lot of people throughout time have clung to this stuff because it makes them happy, it makes them comfortable. Now we can tell them that they're dumbasses who can't see reason, but as long as they're not bothering people with it, who really cares what they think?

Why is Hitler going to hell?

[Thafoo]

If it is based on the Will of God, which is permanent and immutable, then it is good.

But God's will is so arbitrary. When was the last time you stoned an adulterer to death?

You. I like you.

[Ganos Lao]

I am I pressed how well you claim to know my psyche.
Cynical wasn't the best word. Probably "arrogant." that's a better word.

One arrogant atheist does not speak for all atheists.

Just as one fundamentalist does not speak for all religious people.

People are too quick to commit such fallacies at times.

[The Grey Wolf]

Many founding father were Athiest

A better word would be skeptics.

Or deist.

[Thafoo]

The same can be said of Hell. People traditionally ascribe hell, or at least something similar to it, as the inevitable dwelling place of the bad people in the world. Your Albert Fishes, your Adolf Hitlers, your Saddam Husseins, etc, etc. Remember the Amanda Berry story recently? When you look at the guy who did that crap to her and the other girls, you'd see people saying, damn, he's gonna fry in hell, right? The idea that such people would escape such a fate because there is no hell at all....well, that too is an unpleasant thought. What I'm saying is that, in the interest of fairness, a lot of people throughout time have clung to this stuff because it makes them happy, it makes them comfortable. Now we can tell them that they're dumbasses who can't see reason, but as long as they're not bothering people with it, who really cares what they think?

Why is Hitler going to hell?

...


What?!

[Genivaria]

The same can be said of Hell. People traditionally ascribe hell, or at least something similar to it, as the inevitable dwelling place of the bad people in the world. Your Albert Fishes, your Adolf Hitlers, your Saddam Husseins, etc, etc. Remember the Amanda Berry story recently? When you look at the guy who did that crap to her and the other girls, you'd see people saying, damn, he's gonna fry in hell, right? The idea that such people would escape such a fate because there is no hell at all....well, that too is an unpleasant thought. What I'm saying is that, in the interest of fairness, a lot of people throughout time have clung to this stuff because it makes them happy, it makes them comfortable. Now we can tell them that they're dumbasses who can't see reason, but as long as they're not bothering people with it, who really cares what they think?

Why is Hitler going to hell?

Depending on whether or not you believe faith redeems, he's not.