Straight White Males as default: How it's wrong.

[Nimilia]

It's called literary criticism.. You see, some of these 'pretentious douchebags' think that it helps to talk about stories in order to make them better, more interesting, more fun. The way these stories handle gender, relationships etc is a major part of that.

Also, the complaint is that if an author can only write people like they are themselves, they're a pretty bad writer.

Finally, some of us pretentious douchebags like to read SFF and we'd like to see a more diverse cast of characters, or -heaven forbid- we're gay or female douchebags and we'd like to occasionally see characters that we can relate to as well.

No, that's not literary criticism, that's too much sensitivity. You're not making a story better by telling authors they're actively discriminating against a portion of the human population, you're just being a whiny primadonna.

An author doesn't possess an array of colourful main characters devised to appeal to every whiner on the planet? His writing must be terrible! What a logical deduction there, Holmes!

On your last note, read the part of my previous comment in bold.

Every important character by this author is straight, white and male? Well then he PROBABLY has a pretty narrow view of reality. Which, you know, is pretty worthy of criticism.

But okay, your argument is 'tough luck', that's very intelligent and all... Why do you even bother to reply?


Also, 'whiny primadonna'? Yeah, that certainly dispelled any thoughts I might have of you being a homophobe...

[Nadkor]

It's still basically people getting oversensitive over nothing.

Well, I mean, if the fact that the views, experiences, and lives of one particular minority are wholly over-represented in culture and mass media to the point where people who aren't in that particular minority feel that they can't relate and feel excluded from said culture and mass media is nothing then, yeah, it's nothing.

Glad that we've got that sorted out. May as well close the thread, eh?

[Esternial]

No, that's not literary criticism, that's too much sensitivity. You're not making a story better by telling authors they're actively discriminating against a portion of the human population, you're just being a whiny primadonna.

An author doesn't possess an array of colourful main characters devised to appeal to every whiner on the planet? His writing must be terrible! What a logical deduction there, Holmes!

On your last note, read the part of my previous comment in bold.

Every important character by this author is straight, white and male? Well then he PROBABLY has a pretty narrow view of reality. Which, you know, is pretty worthy of criticism.

But okay, your argument is 'tough luck', that's very intelligent and all... Why do you even bother to reply?


Also, 'whiny primadonna'? Yeah, that certainly dispelled any thoughts I might have of you being a homophobe...

Fantasy world equals reality now?

Well...only for people that haven't taken their medication, maybe.

[Nailed to the Perch]

...I'm sorry, are you somehow under the impression that "literary criticism" means "telling authors their writing is terrible"?

I mean, maybe YOU did really, really badly in your English classes, but for most of us, "criticism" wasn't so much "you're terrible" as "a thoughtful analysis of what's good, what's interesting, what could be improved, etc." If you're used to it just meaning "you're terrible," I'm pretty sure you're not cut out to write.

You replied to the wrong person.

...no, I didn't. You argued that criticizing an author for a lack of racial diversity is the same as saying "his writing must be terrible." If you can't read and understand your own posts, I'm not sure how you think you're qualified to speak to what "literary criticism" entails.

[Forsher]

Now now summertime, let's not hide your true feelings, we saw the before the edit:



Funny you edited it out though. What, realized you shot your load a bit too quick? It's barely June

For the love of God. We've got to get our forum back.

It's not summer. It's people suddenly getting way more sensitive to comments that are just ignored whenever it's not summer.

Not that it's not winter where I am.

[Nimilia]

...I'm sorry, are you somehow under the impression that "literary criticism" means "telling authors their writing is terrible"?

I mean, maybe YOU did really, really badly in your English classes, but for most of us, "criticism" wasn't so much "you're terrible" as "a thoughtful analysis of what's good, what's interesting, what could be improved, etc." If you're used to it just meaning "you're terrible," I'm pretty sure you're not cut out to write.

You replied to the wrong person.

No, I'm pretty sure he replied to the right person.

[Nadkor]

You said "You're an idiot". I quite agreed with that.

Insulting people is an impulse that should be controlled to an extent. But boy does it feel good.

You need to learn how to insult people in better and more valid ways.

[Nimilia]

Every important character by this author is straight, white and male? Well then he PROBABLY has a pretty narrow view of reality. Which, you know, is pretty worthy of criticism.

But okay, your argument is 'tough luck', that's very intelligent and all... Why do you even bother to reply?


Also, 'whiny primadonna'? Yeah, that certainly dispelled any thoughts I might have of you being a homophobe...

Fantasy world equals reality now?

Well...only for people that haven't taken their medication, maybe.

You could write a fantasy novel about how the mighy teutonic warriors save their world from the evil spacejews and the nigg-ehr race and establish a paradise under their great leader Adolphus, and EVEN THOUGH IT'S FANTASY people might think you harbour nazi sympathies..

That is, if they don't think it's satire, which is probably more likely.

[Forsher]

Insulting people is an impulse that should be controlled to an extent. But boy does it feel good.

You need to learn how to insult people in better and more valid ways.

Call me old fashioned/an idealist/out of touch with reality but having the ability to argue (create, develop, support one's own arguments as well as respond to and attack counter-argument and/or rebuttal) seems to be a much better ability to learn.

[The Archregimancy]

Locked while I make a ruling.

[The Archregimancy]

Kubrath, we have a problem here.

If you'd just left it as this:

Shot the load too quick? No, I just felt that sudden impulses must be controlled and insults must be retracted.

... we wouldn't be having this discussion. We've probably all said something in haste which we tried to immediately retract, and the time stamps show you edited the original "you're an idiot" pretty damn quickly. You recognised your mistake, and retracted it. We could leave things there..

But you couldn't leave it at that, could you? After a couple of people called you up on the edit, you replied with:

You said "You're an idiot". I quite agreed with that.

Insulting people is an impulse that should be controlled to an extent. But boy does it feel good.

That no longer sounds like a retraction to me - that sounds like acknowledging and revelling in the insult, even if you recognise that you should control your impulse to make it.

Since the evidence for the original flame is corroborated by three separate parties, and you are acknowledging that it "made you feel good" - which no longer sounds like an actual retraction - *** warned for flaming ***.


And Distributist Chestertonia, you're not exactly innocent here in that your agreeing with the original flame is what encouraged Kubrath to revisit the fact that it felt good. You can have a firm admonition to not go around requoting people who've flamed and then trying to agree with them.

[Neo Art]

This is the problem with the forum's average age continually falling. Children are, fundamentally, not capable of truly understanding broad social concepts. It's one of the problems of youth. They lack the intellectual, mental, and emotional maturity to conceptualize things in a broad social context. This is not, and never has been, about A book's characters or A writer's choices. It's about broader social themes, and what it says about our society when the media we consume has, as its principle protagonists, white heterosexuals, often men. And don't take MY word for it, here's the top 20 scripted non animated tv shows for 2012-2013 season:


BIG BANG THEORY - to the extent that Leonard and Penny are the two main characters, white heterosexuals. If we presume an ensemble cast, of a cast of 7 (4 males, 3 females) there's one non white character, Raj

MODERN FAMILY - Actually does a reasonable job. An ensemble cast of basically 10 (11 if you count the baby) there's a Hispanic woman and a mixed race son, so this show does ok. That is, of course, the ENTIRE PREMISE of the show, to portray actual MODERN American families. So good the show does it, unfortunately it takes a show where that's the entire schtick OF the show to get it half way right.

TWO & A HALF MEN - three white dudes

GREY’S ANATOMY - Does an actual pretty decent job of this, an Asian and two black actors

NCIS - 6 white people (while the actress playing Ziva is Ecuadorian, the character is Israeli). All heterosexual.

2 BROKE GIRLS - two WHITE girls

HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER - Five white people. All heterosexual

ONCE UPON A TIME - WHOLE lot of whities. And while they bucked the trend and made "lancelot" black (and Mulan has shown up once or twice), the core cast (and the show has a HUGE ensemble cast) is ALLLL white, and to the extent that we can see, ALLLLLL straight.

NCIS: LA - They have LL Col J, I'll give them that

PERSON OF INTEREST - One possibly mixed race women, two white dudes, all straight

CBS CRIMINAL MINDS - One person of color in a cast of 7.

MIKE & MOLLY - A story about a straight white couple

GLEE - This show actually makes a deliberate POINT of having a very diverse cast

NEW GIRL - 3 white people, one black man.

ELEMENTARY - of the four "main" cast, 2 are people of color, so this isn't too bad.

REVENGE - I'M BLIND!

SCANDAL - wow, a black woman lead, WE FOUND ONE!

CSI - White as the freshly fallen snow

BONES - One black supporting character in a cast of 5

PARENTHOOD - probably the largest cast in an ensemble show. Arguably 13 main cast members. All white.

CASTLE - The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

In virtually every show, the only people of color, if there are any, are supporting characters. The only ones where a person of color is the lead character is Scandal. Arguably Modern Family. So that's 1 (maybe 2) out of 20. The only show where this an unambiguous "lead" character, that is a person of color, is Scandal. "Modern Family" is an ensemble cast, but the Hispanic wife can be considered a "lead".

The other 18 have main characters be white. In 10 of the 20 shows, the cast is EXCLUSIVELY white. In all of the "police procedural" shows the highest "ranked" of the regular characters is exclusively white, except for one, criminal minds. Castle does have a black chief of police, but she's a tertiary character. Of the three shows that explicitly aim for a diverse cast (Modern Family, Glee, Grey's Anatomy) two of them still have white leads (Glee and Grey's Anatomy). So even shows that EXPLICITLY MAKE IT THEIR POINT to have a diverse cast, two of them still have white people as the leads. The only one that doesn't is a show EXPLICITLY ABOUT modern American relationships, and STILL the bulk of their cast? White.

So what do we see? In popular media, our protagonists? Almost all white, almost all straight. Shows that do have people of color in them, those characters are traditionally supporting characters, existing to help flesh out, develop, and exist only in relationship to, the story of the white protagonist. In shows that show a hierarchical setting, one with ranks and power structures, the person at the top of that structure (or at least, the highest ranked person in that structure of the regular cast)? Virtually always white. Virtually always straight.

THIS is what we're talking about, THIS is the point we're making. Not ONE show. Not ONE book. About broader societal TRENDS, and what impact this has on society.

But, since this is a forum dominated by children, instead of intelligent discussion about social trends in a broader sociological construct we get "gee, just don't buy it then, STUPID!"

[Esternial]

CASTLE -

The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

They're WHAT?

[The UK in Exile]

CASTLE -

The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

They're WHAT?

its only a spoiler if you're unware of cliche.

or colour blind I guess, if you didn't know they were white.

[Individuality-ness]

CASTLE -

The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

They're WHAT?

That was pretty much inevitable, there were so many hints dropped that everyone knew it was going to happen.

[Nadkor]

You need to learn how to insult people in better and more valid ways.

Call me old fashioned/an idealist/out of touch with reality but having the ability to argue (create, develop, support one's own arguments as well as respond to and attack counter-argument and/or rebuttal) seems to be a much better ability to learn.

What, and you think insulting people in the right way - by using a combination of various techniques to put what they've said in an argument against them in order to ridicule them - isn't part of arguing?

It's not attacking the poster, it's very strictly attacking the post - but you can attack the post in a way that makes the poster look like a fool.

And it's a fundamental part of arguing properly.

[Nadkor]

This is the problem with the forum's average age continually falling. Children are, fundamentally, not capable of truly understanding broad social concepts. It's one of the problems of youth. They lack the intellectual, mental, and emotional maturity to conceptualize things in a broad social context. This is not, and never has been, about A book's characters or A writer's choices. It's about broader social themes, and what it says about our society when the media we consume has, as its principle protagonists, white heterosexuals, often men. And don't take MY word for it, here's the top 20 scripted non animated tv shows for 2012-2013 season:


BIG BANG THEORY - to the extent that Leonard and Penny are the two main characters, white heterosexuals. If we presume an ensemble cast, of a cast of 7 (4 males, 3 females) there's one non white character, Raj

MODERN FAMILY - Actually does a reasonable job. An ensemble cast of basically 10 (11 if you count the baby) there's a Hispanic woman and a mixed race son, so this show does ok. That is, of course, the ENTIRE PREMISE of the show, to portray actual MODERN American families. So good the show does it, unfortunately it takes a show where that's the entire schtick OF the show to get it half way right.

TWO & A HALF MEN - three white dudes

GREY’S ANATOMY - Does an actual pretty decent job of this, an Asian and two black actors

NCIS - 6 white people (while the actress playing Ziva is Ecuadorian, the character is Israeli). All heterosexual.

2 BROKE GIRLS - two WHITE girls

HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER - Five white people. All heterosexual

ONCE UPON A TIME - WHOLE lot of whities. And while they bucked the trend and made "lancelot" black (and Mulan has shown up once or twice), the core cast (and the show has a HUGE ensemble cast) is ALLLL white, and to the extent that we can see, ALLLLLL straight.

NCIS: LA - They have LL Col J, I'll give them that

PERSON OF INTEREST - One possibly mixed race women, two white dudes, all straight

CBS CRIMINAL MINDS - One person of color in a cast of 7.

MIKE & MOLLY - A story about a straight white couple

GLEE - This show actually makes a deliberate POINT of having a very diverse cast

NEW GIRL - 3 white people, one black man.

ELEMENTARY - of the four "main" cast, 2 are people of color, so this isn't too bad.

REVENGE - I'M BLIND!

SCANDAL - wow, a black woman lead, WE FOUND ONE!

CSI - White as the freshly fallen snow

BONES - One black supporting character in a cast of 5

PARENTHOOD - probably the largest cast in an ensemble show. Arguably 13 main cast members. All white.

CASTLE - The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

In virtually every show, the only people of color, if there are any, are supporting characters. The only ones where a person of color is the lead character is Scandal. Arguably Modern Family. So that's 1 (maybe 2) out of 20. The only show where this an unambiguous "lead" character, that is a person of color, is Scandal. "Modern Family" is an ensemble cast, but the Hispanic wife can be considered a "lead".

The other 18 have main characters be white. in 10 of the 20 shows, the cast is EXCLUSIVELY white. In all of the "police procedural" shows the highest "ranked" of the regular characters is exclusively white, except for one, criminal minds. Castle does have a black chief of police, but she's a tertiary character.

So what do we see? In popular media, our protagonists? Almost all white, almost all straight. Shows that do have people of color in them, those characters are traditionally supporting characters, existing to help flesh out, develop, and exist only in relationship to, the story of the white protagonist. In shows that show a hierarchical setting, one with ranks and power structures, the person at the top of that structure (or at least, the highest ranked person in that structure of the regular cast)? Virtually always white. Virtually always straight.

THIS is what we're talking about, THIS is the point we're making. Not ONE show. Not ONE book. About broader societal TRENDS, and what impact this has on society.

But, since this is a forum dominated by children, instead of intelligent discussion about social trends in a broader sociological construct we get "gee, just don't buy it then, STUPID!"

Yeah, but if you don't want to see all white casts then don't join in with popular culture, stupid.

[Nailed to the Perch]

They're WHAT?

its only a spoiler if you're unware of cliche.

or colour blind I guess, if you didn't know they were white.

Plus, I'm not sure if it counts as a major spoiler if it's been true for an entire season, and "obviously something that would eventually happen" for the entire show.

[Neo Art]

CASTLE -

The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

They're WHAT?

You know, I was really, REALLY tempted to spoiler that one, but for fuck's sake, it's been an entire season.

[Genivaria]

This is the problem with the forum's average age continually falling. Children are, fundamentally, not capable of truly understanding broad social concepts. It's one of the problems of youth. They lack the intellectual, mental, and emotional maturity to conceptualize things in a broad social context. This is not, and never has been, about A book's characters or A writer's choices. It's about broader social themes, and what it says about our society when the media we consume has, as its principle protagonists, white heterosexuals, often men. And don't take MY word for it, here's the top 20 scripted non animated tv shows for 2012-2013 season:


BIG BANG THEORY - to the extent that Leonard and Penny are the two main characters, white heterosexuals. If we presume an ensemble cast, of a cast of 7 (4 males, 3 females) there's one non white character, Raj

MODERN FAMILY - Actually does a reasonable job. An ensemble cast of basically 10 (11 if you count the baby) there's a Hispanic woman and a mixed race son, so this show does ok. That is, of course, the ENTIRE PREMISE of the show, to portray actual MODERN American families. So good the show does it, unfortunately it takes a show where that's the entire schtick OF the show to get it half way right.

TWO & A HALF MEN - three white dudes

GREY’S ANATOMY - Does an actual pretty decent job of this, an Asian and two black actors

NCIS - 6 white people (while the actress playing Ziva is Ecuadorian, the character is Israeli). All heterosexual.

2 BROKE GIRLS - two WHITE girls

HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER - Five white people. All heterosexual

ONCE UPON A TIME - WHOLE lot of whities. And while they bucked the trend and made "lancelot" black (and Mulan has shown up once or twice), the core cast (and the show has a HUGE ensemble cast) is ALLLL white, and to the extent that we can see, ALLLLLL straight.

NCIS: LA - They have LL Col J, I'll give them that

PERSON OF INTEREST - One possibly mixed race women, two white dudes, all straight

CBS CRIMINAL MINDS - One person of color in a cast of 7.

MIKE & MOLLY - A story about a straight white couple

GLEE - This show actually makes a deliberate POINT of having a very diverse cast

NEW GIRL - 3 white people, one black man.

ELEMENTARY - of the four "main" cast, 2 are people of color, so this isn't too bad.

REVENGE - I'M BLIND!

SCANDAL - wow, a black woman lead, WE FOUND ONE!

CSI - White as the freshly fallen snow

BONES - One black supporting character in a cast of 5

PARENTHOOD - probably the largest cast in an ensemble show. Arguably 13 main cast members. All white.

CASTLE - The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

In virtually every show, the only people of color, if there are any, are supporting characters. The only ones where a person of color is the lead character is Scandal. Arguably Modern Family. So that's 1 (maybe 2) out of 20. The only show where this an unambiguous "lead" character, that is a person of color, is Scandal. "Modern Family" is an ensemble cast, but the Hispanic wife can be considered a "lead".

The other 18 have main characters be white. In 10 of the 20 shows, the cast is EXCLUSIVELY white. In all of the "police procedural" shows the highest "ranked" of the regular characters is exclusively white, except for one, criminal minds. Castle does have a black chief of police, but she's a tertiary character. Of the three shows that explicitly aim for a diverse cast (Modern Family, Glee, Grey's Anatomy) two of them still have white leads (Glee and Grey's Anatomy). So even shows that EXPLICITLY MAKE IT THEIR POINT to have a diverse cast, two of them still have white people as the leads. The only one that doesn't is a show EXPLICITLY ABOUT modern American relationships, and STILL the bulk of their cast? White.

So what do we see? In popular media, our protagonists? Almost all white, almost all straight. Shows that do have people of color in them, those characters are traditionally supporting characters, existing to help flesh out, develop, and exist only in relationship to, the story of the white protagonist. In shows that show a hierarchical setting, one with ranks and power structures, the person at the top of that structure (or at least, the highest ranked person in that structure of the regular cast)? Virtually always white. Virtually always straight.

THIS is what we're talking about, THIS is the point we're making. Not ONE show. Not ONE book. About broader societal TRENDS, and what impact this has on society.

But, since this is a forum dominated by children, instead of intelligent discussion about social trends in a broader sociological construct we get "gee, just don't buy it then, STUPID!"

You wanna know something weird? My mother was a big fan of the Glee show whereas I wasn't due to not liking musicals (I did come to like the music itself though) she however dismisses LGBT rights whereas I have an Equal Sign bumper sticker on my car and send money to the HRC.
Irony.

[Nimilia]

Well, at least this discussion should have educational value then, right?

[Individuality-ness]

This is the problem with the forum's average age continually falling. Children are, fundamentally, not capable of truly understanding broad social concepts. It's one of the problems of youth. They lack the intellectual, mental, and emotional maturity to conceptualize things in a broad social context. This is not, and never has been, about A book's characters or A writer's choices. It's about broader social themes, and what it says about our society when the media we consume has, as its principle protagonists, white heterosexuals, often men. And don't take MY word for it, here's the top 20 scripted non animated tv shows for 2012-2013 season:


BIG BANG THEORY - to the extent that Leonard and Penny are the two main characters, white heterosexuals. If we presume an ensemble cast, of a cast of 7 (4 males, 3 females) there's one non white character, Raj

MODERN FAMILY - Actually does a reasonable job. An ensemble cast of basically 10 (11 if you count the baby) there's a Hispanic woman and a mixed race son, so this show does ok. That is, of course, the ENTIRE PREMISE of the show, to portray actual MODERN American families. So good the show does it, unfortunately it takes a show where that's the entire schtick OF the show to get it half way right.

TWO & A HALF MEN - three white dudes

GREY’S ANATOMY - Does an actual pretty decent job of this, an Asian and two black actors

NCIS - 6 white people (while the actress playing Ziva is Ecuadorian, the character is Israeli). All heterosexual.

2 BROKE GIRLS - two WHITE girls

HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER - Five white people. All heterosexual

ONCE UPON A TIME - WHOLE lot of whities. And while they bucked the trend and made "lancelot" black (and Mulan has shown up once or twice), the core cast (and the show has a HUGE ensemble cast) is ALLLL white, and to the extent that we can see, ALLLLLL straight.

NCIS: LA - They have LL Col J, I'll give them that

PERSON OF INTEREST - One possibly mixed race women, two white dudes, all straight

CBS CRIMINAL MINDS - One person of color in a cast of 7.

MIKE & MOLLY - A story about a straight white couple

GLEE - This show actually makes a deliberate POINT of having a very diverse cast

NEW GIRL - 3 white people, one black man.

ELEMENTARY - of the four "main" cast, 2 are people of color, so this isn't too bad.

REVENGE - I'M BLIND!

SCANDAL - wow, a black woman lead, WE FOUND ONE!

CSI - White as the freshly fallen snow

BONES - One black supporting character in a cast of 5

PARENTHOOD - probably the largest cast in an ensemble show. Arguably 13 main cast members. All white.

CASTLE - The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

In virtually every show, the only people of color, if there are any, are supporting characters. The only ones where a person of color is the lead character is Scandal. Arguably Modern Family. So that's 1 (maybe 2) out of 20. The only show where this an unambiguous "lead" character, that is a person of color, is Scandal. "Modern Family" is an ensemble cast, but the Hispanic wife can be considered a "lead".

The other 18 have main characters be white. in 10 of the 20 shows, the cast is EXCLUSIVELY white. In all of the "police procedural" shows the highest "ranked" of the regular characters is exclusively white, except for one, criminal minds. Castle does have a black chief of police, but she's a tertiary character.

So what do we see? In popular media, our protagonists? Almost all white, almost all straight. Shows that do have people of color in them, those characters are traditionally supporting characters, existing to help flesh out, develop, and exist only in relationship to, the story of the white protagonist. In shows that show a hierarchical setting, one with ranks and power structures, the person at the top of that structure (or at least, the highest ranked person in that structure of the regular cast)? Virtually always white. Virtually always straight.

THIS is what we're talking about, THIS is the point we're making. Not ONE show. Not ONE book. About broader societal TRENDS, and what impact this has on society.

But, since this is a forum dominated by children, instead of intelligent discussion about social trends in a broader sociological construct we get "gee, just don't buy it then, STUPID!"

Yeah, but if you don't want to see all white casts then don't join in with popular culture, stupid.

Then what am I supposed to do for entertainment? Read classical literature?

Oh wait...

[Zweite Alaje]

This is the problem with the forum's average age continually falling. Children are, fundamentally, not capable of truly understanding broad social concepts. It's one of the problems of youth. They lack the intellectual, mental, and emotional maturity to conceptualize things in a broad social context. This is not, and never has been, about A book's characters or A writer's choices. It's about broader social themes, and what it says about our society when the media we consume has, as its principle protagonists, white heterosexuals, often men. And don't take MY word for it, here's the top 20 scripted non animated tv shows for 2012-2013 season:


BIG BANG THEORY - to the extent that Leonard and Penny are the two main characters, white heterosexuals. If we presume an ensemble cast, of a cast of 7 (4 males, 3 females) there's one non white character, Raj

MODERN FAMILY - Actually does a reasonable job. An ensemble cast of basically 10 (11 if you count the baby) there's a Hispanic woman and a mixed race son, so this show does ok. That is, of course, the ENTIRE PREMISE of the show, to portray actual MODERN American families. So good the show does it, unfortunately it takes a show where that's the entire schtick OF the show to get it half way right.

TWO & A HALF MEN - three white dudes

GREY’S ANATOMY - Does an actual pretty decent job of this, an Asian and two black actors

NCIS - 6 white people (while the actress playing Ziva is Ecuadorian, the character is Israeli). All heterosexual.

2 BROKE GIRLS - two WHITE girls

HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER - Five white people. All heterosexual

ONCE UPON A TIME - WHOLE lot of whities. And while they bucked the trend and made "lancelot" black (and Mulan has shown up once or twice), the core cast (and the show has a HUGE ensemble cast) is ALLLL white, and to the extent that we can see, ALLLLLL straight.

NCIS: LA - They have LL Col J, I'll give them that

PERSON OF INTEREST - One possibly mixed race women, two white dudes, all straight

CBS CRIMINAL MINDS - One person of color in a cast of 7.

MIKE & MOLLY - A story about a straight white couple

GLEE - This show actually makes a deliberate POINT of having a very diverse cast

NEW GIRL - 3 white people, one black man.

ELEMENTARY - of the four "main" cast, 2 are people of color, so this isn't too bad.

REVENGE - I'M BLIND!

SCANDAL - wow, a black woman lead, WE FOUND ONE!

CSI - White as the freshly fallen snow

BONES - One black supporting character in a cast of 5

PARENTHOOD - probably the largest cast in an ensemble show. Arguably 13 main cast members. All white.

CASTLE - The two main characters are white, heterosexual, and currently, a couple. Of the supporting characters, there's one Hispanic, and a black female tertiary character

In virtually every show, the only people of color, if there are any, are supporting characters. The only ones where a person of color is the lead character is Scandal. Arguably Modern Family. So that's 1 (maybe 2) out of 20. The only show where this an unambiguous "lead" character, that is a person of color, is Scandal. "Modern Family" is an ensemble cast, but the Hispanic wife can be considered a "lead".

The other 18 have main characters be white. In 10 of the 20 shows, the cast is EXCLUSIVELY white. In all of the "police procedural" shows the highest "ranked" of the regular characters is exclusively white, except for one, criminal minds. Castle does have a black chief of police, but she's a tertiary character. Of the three shows that explicitly aim for a diverse cast (Modern Family, Glee, Grey's Anatomy) two of them still have white leads (Glee and Grey's Anatomy). So even shows that EXPLICITLY MAKE IT THEIR POINT to have a diverse cast, two of them still have white people as the leads. The only one that doesn't is a show EXPLICITLY ABOUT modern American relationships, and STILL the bulk of their cast? White.

So what do we see? In popular media, our protagonists? Almost all white, almost all straight. Shows that do have people of color in them, those characters are traditionally supporting characters, existing to help flesh out, develop, and exist only in relationship to, the story of the white protagonist. In shows that show a hierarchical setting, one with ranks and power structures, the person at the top of that structure (or at least, the highest ranked person in that structure of the regular cast)? Virtually always white. Virtually always straight.

THIS is what we're talking about, THIS is the point we're making. Not ONE show. Not ONE book. About broader societal TRENDS, and what impact this has on society.

But, since this is a forum dominated by children, instead of intelligent discussion about social trends in a broader sociological construct we get "gee, just don't buy it then, STUPID!"

I, and probably a lot of other people that aren't particularly ruffled by this, understand what you're talking about, but is it really that important, is it even really an "issue"?

As a minority myself I've never even cared much whether a show, movie, or other media has a black character on the main cast or not. Sure, I'll notice if it doesn't and be like "oh, look a black" character, but all in all it isn't very important to my decision to like something.

[Trollgaard]

Ok, Neo Art. What are the greater societal trends you were speaking of?

How does have white heterosexual characters as the main protagonists in books, tv, and movies hurt society? What does it say about society?

Enlighten us.


Personally I see it as a nonissue, as I think most people will agree that non-white and non-heterosexual characters are increasing in all forms of media, and that's good, I suppose.

Society is dominated by white heterosexuals, at least in the West, and a result its not that hard to imagine why most media would reflect that. Its not being intentionally offensive, or discriminatory, or anything of that nature. Media reflects the society that creates it.

As society changes, as it has been, the media will reflect that more and more.

I don't think its a problem a all.

[Neo Art]

Ok, Neo Art. What are the greater societal trends you were speaking of?

How does have white heterosexual characters as the main protagonists in books, tv, and movies hurt society? What does it say about society?

Enlighten us.

If, at this point in your life, you haven't yet learned basic sociological theory, there's nothing I can say that will help you. I'm not your teacher, I'm not paid to "enlighten" you. If you want to spend your life ignorant, that's your problem.