Straight White Males as default: How it's wrong.

[Nailed to the Perch]

What "tiny nuances?" What "differences in behavior?" Being gay is nothing more than having an attraction to the same sex. That's it. There's nothing more. There isn't some sort of magical Gay Force that invades the brain and makes people act different. Gay people can have literally any personality type that straight people can. The only difference between the two is their choice of romantic and sexual partners.

Um.

That's really, really not true. You may as well say that being black is nothing more than having darker skin.

Experiences are the things that define social groups. Not their immutable differences, and the experiences of gay characters in any society are different than the experiences of straight cis characters, just as it is in real life.

How to write a gay relationship:

Write a straight relationship. Now, change all the times you refer to one of the characters in that relationship as "he" or "she" to the other pronoun. If their name is strongly gendered, change it to a different name. Gay relationship written!

How to write a woman:

Just write a person, and then name that person "Susan" or "Marla" or "Nancy" or something. Woman written!

That doesn't mean you can't write outside your identity, but it does mean that you have to make an effort about it. Unless you're doing some far flung utopian society, then there's going to be sexism, there's going to be homophobia, there's going to be racism. And that has an impact on people.

someone's sexuality, someone's gender identity, someone's race; these things matter, you can't just get away with putting in female characters by writing about "Wilma" instead of "Will", and "she" instead of "he."

Or rather, you can, but it's going to be shitty writing. There's a balance, between making a character's identity their entire character and making that identity meaningless. It's not meaningless, and if you think it is, you're not going to write good characters.

Well, yes and no. I'm not saying sexuality, race, or gender don't matter, but rather that they only matter to the extent the author dictates that they matter. If I am writing a story about, I dunno, space pirates fighting aliens on Mars, there is no reason why the fact that space pirate #7 happens to be married to a dude back on Earth rather than a woman back on Earth has to have any particular effect on his personality or characterization. It is not a matter of "well, if he were straight, obviously he would like space-football and go around punching aliens in a manly fashion, but since he's gay, obviously he only likes space-musicals and slapping the aliens across their betentacled faces while shrieking, 'Oh, STAAAAAAHP!'" There isn't any quality all gay people have in common besides "attracted to members of the same gender," and so writing a gay character, in itself, should not present any challenge that writing a straight character does not.

Essentially, it goes back to the whole Smurfette thing. It's not that a character being gay or black or female shouldn't inform their characterization or affect the plot. It's that it should inform their characterization or affect the plot exactly as much as their being straight or white or male should, without one of those being seen as a default status that requires no explanation and one of them necessarily being an Issue that must be addressed and justified.

[Adventus Secundus]

I'll give you the linguistic reason why, from an undergraduate linguistics student:

So not an expert by any definition of the word?

Language, especially 'good prose' in fiction, is subjective. Even the grammatical rules of a language are subject to change by its users. This can take place within the space of a generation. <not to say that language does not communicate meaning, but 'artistry' is a subjective concept. Much of the prose of the master writers of the nineteenth century would be graded poorly by a contemporary lit. teacher...too many 'run-on' sentences>. Language is a consensus: a group of speakers agree that a group of sounds carry certain meanings.

Therefore, 'bad writing' is a subjective concept. The best way to determine the adequacy of an author's prose is not to consult the literary 'experts' (who, at press time, are largely overpaid snobs who think their opinions constitute objective truth). You cannot legitimately say, 'this is bad writing' if the writing is grammatical _{which is also subjective and varies by time, place, and economic and racial status}...but you can state preference and reasons. And people can agree with you...forming a (say it with me!) consensus, on what constitutes desirable prose/poetry. Just like language. And people can, and often have, defied that consensus, either gaining notoriety (e.e. cummings, anyone?) or failing epically. So popular prose=good prose. Because language is a consensus. You may have more 'refined tastes', but that just means you enjoy more erudite prose, it doesn't mean it is superior.

And the consensus on Tolkien is that he was a great world builder who inspired many other authors. His prose was still bad. Sub-par. Underwhelming. Inadequate to the task he demanded of it.

The consensu of whom? The voices in your head? Jk.

[Cannot think of a name]

Uhm... not to be nit picky but if people are tired of reading fiction that features a certain type of character why not write fiction that doesn't feature that certain type of character?

Hear hear!

Or or, you can make note of it, start a public conversation through essays, articles, or in the modern world blogs and forums, discuss the roots and nature of the problem and bring an awareness in something readers and authors might not have noticed and generate an interest in addressing something that was a societal oversight rather than a conscious decision by most authors and in the process challenge both authors and readers to be more aware of this pattern and thereby effect the kind of change that's being looked for...which might actually be even more effective than normal because writers, especially of speculative fiction, tend to be an introspective group and prone to things like social criticism.

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.




As a side note, if I weren't a lazy man I'd start a summer project to determine the exact length of a thread has to get before it becomes a mobius strip of people popping in and making the same ill-thought out observations so you know when to make a bookmark list of the responses to the same bullshit that will be said a hundred times by the reading challenged.

If I were not a lazy man.

[Nadkor]

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.

Didn't you hear?

I've already made plans to ditch the legal career and instead move into something that I know that I'm not particularly good at, fiction writing, just to appease this very thread.

[Cannot think of a name]

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.

Didn't you hear?

I've already made plans to ditch the legal career and instead move into something that I know that I'm not particularly good at, fiction writing, just to appease this very thread.

Well, you already sluffed off my chance to live vicariously through you in the most tangential of ways possible by going with a solid career you probably feel pretty good about instead of being a racing photographer, so why not? Why won't anyone follow my horrible, horrible career advice?

[Individuality-ness]

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

[The Blaatschapen]

Didn't you hear?

I've already made plans to ditch the legal career and instead move into something that I know that I'm not particularly good at, fiction writing, just to appease this very thread.

Well, you already sluffed off my chance to live vicariously through you in the most tangential of ways possible by going with a solid career you probably feel pretty good about instead of being a racing photographer, so why not? Why won't anyone follow my horrible, horrible career advice?

Okay, what's your advice for me?

[The Blaatschapen]

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

If Max can do it, anyone can.

[Cannot think of a name]

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

Sure! I mean, you're writing now. What's to know!? I mean look at how many self proclaimed writers there are in this very thread!*

It's like singing, if you can physically do it, you must be the next American Idol and those judges are just meanie poopy heads for not seeing that.



*Yeah, burning myself on that one, but I deserve it as much as anyone...

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, you already sluffed off my chance to live vicariously through you in the most tangential of ways possible by going with a solid career you probably feel pretty good about instead of being a racing photographer, so why not? Why won't anyone follow my horrible, horrible career advice?

Okay, what's your advice for me?

Don't you live in the Netherlands? What more advice do you need?

[The Rich Port]

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

And that's without the horror of Writer's Block, which hits all writers like a brick truck when it happens.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Nah, that's crazy. Noticing things is the problem. The only solution is for lawyers and college students studying not literature or the arts but who otherwise might read fiction (yet find a lack of representation) to 'just write a book' because someone on the internet doesn't understand the notion of criticism.

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

I dunno, sometimes you have to do research for at least a week!

[Cannot think of a name]

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

I dunno, sometimes you have to do research for at least a week!

And you have to look into and speculate on experiences that might not be your own...fuck, you might as well ask me to fly to the moon by flapping my arms, apparently.

[Nadkor]

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

I dunno, sometimes you have to do research for at least a week!

A whole week?!

[The Blaatschapen]

Okay, what's your advice for me?

Don't you live in the Netherlands? What more advice do you need?

Career advice?

[The Cookish States]

As a white, 18 year old male, I fully accept my title as "Bane of Literature"

How do you...I mean...you guys fucking read, right? I mean, this site, this kind of thing attracts readers...

...I'm not talking about the thread...whatever, fuck the thread. I'm just talking reading in general. Not just recognizing the words in an order to convey an image or action...but actually read and explore ideas and concepts in the process...or is it all just "pew pew clink clank swords and lasers I'm awesome!" Do you guys get nothing else out of these books you guys are all supposedly reading? Do you think that people laud reading as an intellectual exercise because people think you should be told a story slowly? How can a group that supposedly reads more than the average bear be this incapable of doing the one thing that reading is supposed to strengthen?

I'm beginning to think my buddy was right, that OG Readmore is fucking up kid's notion of what reading does by portraying reading as if it was like taking 'shrums.

I was just responding to the OP in a sarcastic way CTOAN..

I generally try to read a lot. But, it usually doesn't matter what race the main character is, I normally put myself in their place, and try to live their lives in the pages. It just helps me get more out of it, and understand the piece more fully. But, everyone has their way of reading.

What pisses me off is when someone reads Hamlet or The Hobbit and can tell you EXACTLY what all happened in the book, and nothing on an intellectual level. Just ask one question about any book that begins with "Should ______ have..."

If they respond with "I dunno" or anything close to "That's not what the book says." they didn't understand the words they were reading.

[Greater Amerigo]

In all technicality, all the protagonists I write are straight white males. This isn't due to prejudice though, I just find it easier to write a straight white male since that is what I am. I feel like I'm posing if I write as anything else because even when I'm not, I feel like I tap into preconceptions and generalizations with any other kind.

I'm sure the same thing applies to a great many writers.

[SaintB]

Uhm... not to be nit picky but if people are tired of reading fiction that features a certain type of character why not write fiction that doesn't feature that certain type of character?

Hi there, I'm the last 50 pages of this thread, I see we haven't met.

I was too damn lazy to read 50 pages of what I posted. Glad to make your acquaintance.

[Cannot think of a name]

Don't you live in the Netherlands? What more advice do you need?

Career advice?

Being Dutch isn't a career?

[Nailed to the Perch]

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

Sure! I mean, you're writing now. What's to know!? I mean look at how many self proclaimed writers there are in this very thread!*

It's like singing, if you can physically do it, you must be the next American Idol and those judges are just meanie poopy heads for not seeing that.

Oh god, don't get me started. I have, at this point, almost a fixed, stand-up comedy-esque rant about how, as someone who is a singer by profession and who has occasionally made money/won prizes and stuff on the side by writing, I somehow managed to find the two best professions in the world for everyone in the universe to think they can do my job without even trying. "Training? Practice? Research? Serious work?" says the universe. "Don't be silly! I do your job in my SHOWER and it's TOTALLY THE SAME THING!"

*grumble grumble grumble*

[The Blaatschapen]

Career advice?

Being Dutch isn't a career?

Depends, will people pay me for it?

[The Cookish States]

And plus, as controversial as the piece can be, Life of Pi is a very interesting read. I liked it. And the main character there isn't white. Kite Runner was okay, hardly a white guy in that book.

I suppose the ancient dragon-fighting epics are chock full of straight white guys, but when was the last time you heard of one of those stories as being anything but bland?

[Individuality-ness]

Hey, it can't be THAT hard, can it? All I need is about a few hundred (if not a few thousand) hours, a publisher, an editor or two, advertising so that people will buy that book... and that's just not addressing the fact that I need an idea on what to write about, some backstories, logs, a bit of research, a concept, and a shit ton of free time that's not being spent pursuing a biochemistry/cell biology major, hanging out with friends, and otherwise killing time doing things that I like to do.

But writing a book is so easy, is it not?

If Max can do it, anyone can.

Exactly! And look! He even hosts this site!

Sure! I mean, you're writing now. What's to know!? I mean look at how many self proclaimed writers there are in this very thread!*

It's like singing, if you can physically do it, you must be the next American Idol and those judges are just meanie poopy heads for not seeing that.



*Yeah, burning myself on that one, but I deserve it as much as anyone...

I know right?! I mean, I even write poems myself, I can probably hack a novel. Maybe I'll be the next Pulitzer Prize winner!

And that's without the horror of Writer's Block, which hits all writers like a brick truck when it happens.

I KNOW. Writer's block freaking sucks, that just makes it take longer. But once you get past that, it's all easy peasy.

I dunno, sometimes you have to do research for at least a week!

*gasp* You don't say? A week? Screw that, I'll write something and then force get my best friend (who happens to be gay, mind you) to read it and tell me what I did right and wrong. *nod*

And you have to look into and speculate on experiences that might not be your own...fuck, you might as well ask me to fly to the moon by flapping my arms, apparently.

Afterwards we can try blowing up a whole bunch of balloons, caprice?

[The Blaatschapen]

In all technicality, all the protagonists I write are straight white males. This isn't due to prejudice though, I just find it easier to write a straight white male since that is what I am. I feel like I'm posing if I write as anything else because even when I'm not, I feel like I tap into preconceptions and generalizations with any other kind.

I'm sure the same thing applies to a great many writers.

It applies to a great many writers, but it doesn't apply to many great writers.

[Cannot think of a name]

Sure! I mean, you're writing now. What's to know!? I mean look at how many self proclaimed writers there are in this very thread!*

It's like singing, if you can physically do it, you must be the next American Idol and those judges are just meanie poopy heads for not seeing that.

Oh god, don't get me started. I have, at this point, almost a fixed, stand-up comedy-esque rant about how, as someone who is a singer by profession and who has occasionally made money/won prizes and stuff on the side by writing, I somehow managed to find the two best professions in the world for everyone in the universe to think they can do my job without even trying. "Training? Practice? Research? Serious work?" says the universe. "Don't be silly! I do your job in my SHOWER and it's TOTALLY THE SAME THING!"

*grumble grumble grumble*

You can come hang out with me (playwright/filmmaker), my brother (professional musician guitar player), and his girlfriend (masters in choral conducting and extremely disciplined singer) while we shake our fists at the world.