What is the gender of nationstates

[The Steel Magnolia]

Yes. A sexual fetish and dressing up as an animal is clearly exactly the fucking same as gender dysphoria. Abso-fucking-lutely.

I think we've already been over that.

Over and beyond.

We're all sitting in the Bahamas right now.

I'm going through, I'm going through. Give me time!

[Esternial]

I'm also amazed if you think I was referring JUST to genitals... having lived transgendered for years I've finally made the next stage to becoming a woman.

But hey, let's just condescend to people.

Bullshit it's the "next stage."

Genitalia is not a requirement of womanhood. There is no such thing as "stages." There is identity, and that is the sole and only determination of gender.

And she wanted more than just identify as a women, what is wrong with that?

[Fireye]

I'm a straight white male. I'm the sum of all evil.

This.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Bullshit it's the "next stage."

Genitalia is not a requirement of womanhood. There is no such thing as "stages." There is identity, and that is the sole and only determination of gender.

And she wanted more than just identify as a women, what is wrong with that?

Nothing, obviously. I want much the same thing.

The part I object to is the utterly idiotic and repugnant notion that someone is "more womanly" if they have a vagina. Or to be more specific, someone is more OF a woman.

[Esternial]

I'm a straight white male. I'm the sum of all evil.

This.

That's only the case if you're a dick.

Doesn't mean you have to be one if you got one.

[Rhodesiah]

And she wanted more than just identify as a women, what is wrong with that?

Nothing, obviously. I want much the same thing.

The part I object to is the utterly idiotic and repugnant notion that someone is "more womanly" if they have a vagina. Or to be more specific, someone is more OF a woman.

I think someone *feels* more womanly if they have a vagina, I don't think it changes someone's perception of who is or isn't a woman.

Obrenovacia before: I'm a woman with a penis
Obrenovacia after: I'm a woman with a vagina, therefore I feel more comfortable identifying as a woman

You're making a mountain out of a molehill if you ask me.

[Ostroeuropa]

And yet, when asked explicitly if you'd support a straight pride parade you said no.
Despite the fact straight people also suffer oppression at the hands of prudes.


As for the poll, I recognize including all options is not feasible so i'm not mad.

I'm bisexual and do not have a gender identity.

Bullshit, bullshit, and bullshit, considering you use male pronouns.

Well, lemme ask you this steel magnolia, did you always use the pronouns of your current gender identity?
Or shall I call bullshit on you being transgendered.

I do not identify as any particular gender. Who I am is not contingent on my gender, nor on my genitals, nor my race. I don't identify as white either, but if someone said "The white guy standing there" i'd know who they meant.
That's why I respond to gender pronouns like "He". But if you called me a she i wouldn't give a fuck.

Well i'll ask again then, should straight people have a pride parade? yes or no?
Are you denying straight people can suffer oppression at the hands of prudish people?

[Shamshu the Defiant]

Nothing, obviously. I want much the same thing.

The part I object to is the utterly idiotic and repugnant notion that someone is "more womanly" if they have a vagina. Or to be more specific, someone is more OF a woman.

I'm too ignorant on gender issues to comment in the broader sense here, but one of the things I like about distancing physionomics from personal identity is that soon (at least within the context of the interval in which our species has existed), we'll more or less have the option to alter our physical forms into whatever we want (or perhaps our grandchildren will).

When that happens, and we can decide to have our bodies altered to include gills or antennae or whatever, we won't really need to take the physical form as reflective at all, or at least not more so than the choice of clothing or hairstyle.

That said, when I consider my own identity, I lack the philosophical autonomy to base it solely on my own impetuses but rather much on how others see me. In a social species that has evolved to rely on group dynamics for survival, having others see me as I see myself is a desire (admittedly impractical, since I am definitively unable to achieve such an integration, not just because others judge as they will, but because I cannot be in accordance with even my own will) is something I can't stop wanting.

[Starkindler]

SRS is sex reassignment surgery. The purpose of this is to change an individual's sex (Physical layer) to match her/his gender (Application/presentation layers) more closely.

That makes a transgendered people a cisgendered one. By definition, transgender is someone who feels her/his gender is inconsistent with her/his sex, and cisgenders feel that her/his gender is consistent with her/his sex. That makes a post-op MtF, for all intents and purposes female, and that's why the most conservative governments accept legal sex change (on documents) after SRS. So the correct would be:

Obrenovacia before: I'm a woman with a penis. (My gender is female, but my sex is male, therefore I'm MtF transgendered.)
Obrenovacia after: I'm a woman. (My sex and my gender are both female, therefore I'm cisgendered.)

[The Steel Magnolia]

Nothing, obviously. I want much the same thing.

The part I object to is the utterly idiotic and repugnant notion that someone is "more womanly" if they have a vagina. Or to be more specific, someone is more OF a woman.

I think someone *feels* more womanly if they have a vagina, I don't think it changes someone's perception of who is or isn't a woman.

Obrenovacia before: I'm a woman with a penis
Obrenovacia after: I'm a woman with a vagina, therefore I feel more comfortable identifying as a woman

You're making a mountain out of a molehill if you ask me.

It's NSG, that's what we do. It's not a big point, it's not a big problem. It's just that Obrenovacia said something stupid, which is that a) genitalia is determinant to sexuality, and b) that a vagina is at all necessarily connected to womanhood.

I'm sure I'd feel more womanly too, with a vagina. That doesn't mean I'm not a woman and it doesn't mean anyone with a vagina is more of a woman than I am.

[Nadkor]

SRS is sex reassignment surgery. The purpose of this is to change an individual's sex (Physical layer) to match her/his gender (Application/presentation layers) more closely.

That makes a transgendered people a cisgendered one. By definition, transgender is someone who feels her/his gender is inconsistent with her/his sex, and cisgenders feel that her/his gender is consistent with her/his sex. That makes a post-op MtF, for all intents and purposes female, and that's why the most conservative governments accept legal sex change (on documents) after SRS. So the correct would be:

Obrenovacia before: I'm a woman with a penis. (My gender is female, but my sex is male, therefore I'm MtF transgendered.)
Obrenovacia after: I'm a woman. (My sex and my gender are both female, therefore I'm cisgendered.)

TSM is a transwoman.

You're literally arguing with a transwoman about how to identify as a woman.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Bullshit, bullshit, and bullshit, considering you use male pronouns.

Well, lemme ask you this steel magnolia, did you always use the pronouns of your current gender identity?
Or shall I call bullshit on you being transgendered.

I do not identify as any particular gender. Who I am is not contingent on my gender, nor on my genitals, nor my race. I don't identify as white either, but if someone said "The white guy standing there" i'd know who they meant.
That's why I respond to gender pronouns like "He". But if you called me a she i wouldn't give a fuck.

Well i'll ask again then, should straight people have a pride parade? yes or no?
Are you denying straight people can suffer oppression at the hands of prudish people?

First off, you don't get to identify as a race. You're white, stop bitching about it.

Second off, do you still use male pronouns? When you talk about yourself, when your friends and family talk to you - do you make them use gender neutral pronouns, or do you only use male ones, and are comfortable with that? Because if so, I call bullshit on that.

Thirdly, straight people are not oppressed. They don't need a pride parade. Prudish people are not oppressors.

[Esternial]

I think someone *feels* more womanly if they have a vagina, I don't think it changes someone's perception of who is or isn't a woman.

Obrenovacia before: I'm a woman with a penis
Obrenovacia after: I'm a woman with a vagina, therefore I feel more comfortable identifying as a woman

You're making a mountain out of a molehill if you ask me.

It's NSG, that's what we do. It's not a big point, it's not a big problem. It's just that Obrenovacia said something stupid, which is that a) genitalia is determinant to sexuality, and b) that a vagina is at all necessarily connected to womanhood.

I'm sure I'd feel more womanly too, with a vagina. That doesn't mean I'm not a woman and it doesn't mean anyone with a vagina is more of a woman than I am.

Where did Obrenovacia say that?

[The Steel Magnolia]

I'm too ignorant on gender issues to comment in the broader sense here, but one of the things I like about distancing physionomics from personal identity is that soon (at least within the context of the interval in which our species has existed), we'll more or less have the option to alter our physical forms into whatever we want (or perhaps our grandchildren will).

When that happens, and we can decide to have our bodies altered to include gills or antennae or whatever, we won't really need to take the physical form as reflective at all, or at least not more so than the choice of clothing or hairstyle.

That said, when I consider my own identity, I lack the philosophical autonomy to base it solely on my own impetuses but rather much on how others see me. In a social species that has evolved to rely on group dynamics for survival, having others see me as I see myself is a desire (admittedly impractical, since I am definitively unable to achieve such an integration, not just because others judge as they will, but because I cannot be in accordance with even my own will) is something I can't stop wanting.

The physicality of it all is entirely distinct, though connected, issue from identity. The two are separate issues, my gender identity is my identity regardless of how I am perceived by myself or others, though my desire to be perceived may very well be connected to my gender identity.

[The Steel Magnolia]

SRS is sex reassignment surgery. The purpose of this is to change an individual's sex (Physical layer) to match her/his gender (Application/presentation layers) more closely.

That makes a transgendered people a cisgendered one. By definition, transgender is someone who feels her/his gender is inconsistent with her/his sex, and cisgenders feel that her/his gender is consistent with her/his sex. That makes a post-op MtF, for all intents and purposes female, and that's why the most conservative governments accept legal sex change (on documents) after SRS. So the correct would be:

Obrenovacia before: I'm a woman with a penis. (My gender is female, but my sex is male, therefore I'm MtF transgendered.)
Obrenovacia after: I'm a woman. (My sex and my gender are both female, therefore I'm cisgendered.)

Literally none of that is true.

Like, utterly none of it.

[The Steel Magnolia]

It's NSG, that's what we do. It's not a big point, it's not a big problem. It's just that Obrenovacia said something stupid, which is that a) genitalia is determinant to sexuality, and b) that a vagina is at all necessarily connected to womanhood.

I'm sure I'd feel more womanly too, with a vagina. That doesn't mean I'm not a woman and it doesn't mean anyone with a vagina is more of a woman than I am.

Where did Obrenovacia say that?

Male to Female transsexual. Post-op to boot.

I'm now straight

[Ostroeuropa]

Well, lemme ask you this steel magnolia, did you always use the pronouns of your current gender identity?
Or shall I call bullshit on you being transgendered.

I do not identify as any particular gender. Who I am is not contingent on my gender, nor on my genitals, nor my race. I don't identify as white either, but if someone said "The white guy standing there" i'd know who they meant.
That's why I respond to gender pronouns like "He". But if you called me a she i wouldn't give a fuck.

Well i'll ask again then, should straight people have a pride parade? yes or no?
Are you denying straight people can suffer oppression at the hands of prudish people?

First off, you don't get to identify as a race. You're white, stop bitching about it.

Second off, do you still use male pronouns? When you talk about yourself, when your friends and family talk to you - do you make them use gender neutral pronouns, or do you only use male ones, and are comfortable with that? Because if so, I call bullshit on that.

Thirdly, straight people are not oppressed. They don't need a pride parade. Prudish people are not oppressors.

First: would you say the same about black people?

Second: When I refer to myself i'd say I, obviously. When other people talk about me, I don't particularly care either way. Since I lack a gender identity it isn't a problem if they decide to assume one for me. I would not care if they called me she. They call me he, because my sex is male. The only equivalent is "It" which may be dehumanizing, but I wouldn't particularly care either. Frankly, i don't understand why anyone would bother correcting people on the he/she thing. Seems pretty irrelevant unless you are trying to fuck them or something.

Third: Considering that all of society is oppressed by prudish people who decided to cut off bits of everybodies genitals and instruct everyone to do the same, that soddomy laws did not exclusively apply to homosexuals, etc. I'd say they are oppressed. What is being denied to everyone is sex. Begrudgingly, one type of sex is permitted. If homosexuals were the ones to give birth to children, that'd be the sex they permit. And even then, cut off bits of the genitals to make it less pleasurable for all involved. Yes, the prudes have oppressed everyone. A straight pride parade is entirely consistent with the gay pride parades logic. Which is why I think it'd be better if we had a sexual liberation parade.

[The Steel Magnolia]

First: would you say the same about black people?

Sure, they're black. They don't suddenly get to identify as white because they feel like it.

Black people also tend to have a reason for identity politics too.

Second: When I refer to myself i'd say I, obviously. When other people talk about me, I don't particularly care either way. Since I lack a gender identity it isn't a problem if they decide to assume one for me. I would not care if they called me she. They call me he, because my sex is male. The only equivalent is "It" which may be dehumanizing, but I wouldn't particularly care either. Frankly, i don't understand why anyone would bother correcting people on the he/she thing. Seems pretty irrelevant unless you are trying to fuck them or something.

Thank you for clarifying.

As I said, bullshit.

Third: Considering that all of society is oppressed by prudish people who decided to cut off bits of everybodies genitals and instruct everyone to do the same, that soddomy laws did not exclusively apply to homosexuals, etc. I'd say they are oppressed. What is being denied to everyone is sex. Begrudgingly, one type of sex is permitted. If homosexuals were the ones to give birth to children, that'd be the sex they permit. And even then, cut off bits of the genitals to make it less pleasurable for all involved. Yes, the prudes have oppressed everyone. A straight pride parade is entirely consistent with the gay pride parades logic. Which is why I think it'd be better if we had a sexual liberation parade.

Puh lease.

The "oppression" that people face by not getting to indulge their fetishes is entirely different from being shot down in the streets.

[Ifreann]

SRS is sex reassignment surgery. The purpose of this is to change an individual's sex (Physical layer) to match her/his gender (Application/presentation layers) more closely.

That makes a transgendered people a...

Computer?

[Ostroeuropa]

First: would you say the same about black people?

Sure, they're black. They don't suddenly get to identify as white because they feel like it.

Black people also tend to have a reason for identity politics too.

Second: When I refer to myself i'd say I, obviously. When other people talk about me, I don't particularly care either way. Since I lack a gender identity it isn't a problem if they decide to assume one for me. I would not care if they called me she. They call me he, because my sex is male. The only equivalent is "It" which may be dehumanizing, but I wouldn't particularly care either. Frankly, i don't understand why anyone would bother correcting people on the he/she thing. Seems pretty irrelevant unless you are trying to fuck them or something.

Thank you for clarifying.

As I said, bullshit.

Third: Considering that all of society is oppressed by prudish people who decided to cut off bits of everybodies genitals and instruct everyone to do the same, that soddomy laws did not exclusively apply to homosexuals, etc. I'd say they are oppressed. What is being denied to everyone is sex. Begrudgingly, one type of sex is permitted. If homosexuals were the ones to give birth to children, that'd be the sex they permit. And even then, cut off bits of the genitals to make it less pleasurable for all involved. Yes, the prudes have oppressed everyone. A straight pride parade is entirely consistent with the gay pride parades logic. Which is why I think it'd be better if we had a sexual liberation parade.

Puh lease.

The "oppression" that people face by not getting to indulge their fetishes is entirely different from being shot down in the streets.

Yeh, but I don't identify as white. Hardly anyone I know does. Yet, if someone said "The white person" you know immediately who they are talking about.

I find it baffling that you think it's bullshit, you of all people.
What about it do you think is bullshit, and remember, you're talking about my gender identity (or lack thereof), you're trying to force me to adopt a male gender identity. Something you explicitly hate when people do to you.

Puh lease. The house-slaves don't deserve to be freed. They aren't beaten and whipped nearly as much as us field-slaves.

[Esternial]

Where did Obrenovacia say that?

Male to Female transsexual. Post-op to boot.

I'm now straight

I didn't draw those conclusions from that small a post, but now that you've pointed it out...

[The Steel Magnolia]

Yeh, but I don't identify as white. Hardly anyone I know does. Yet, if someone said "The white person" you know immediately who they are talking about.

I find it baffling that you think it's bullshit, you of all people.
What about it do you think is bullshit, and remember, you're talking about my gender identity (or lack thereof), you're trying to force me to adopt a male gender identity. Something you explicitly hate when people do to you.

Forgive me if I find it a trifle hard to believe that someone who self identifies as a "human" more than anything else is truly transgender, and not just trying to make a political point.

It's appropriation, plain and simple.

Puh lease. The house-slaves don't deserve to be freed. They aren't beaten and whipped nearly as much as us field-slaves.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Well interestingly enough, so far though strait males is by far the leader, gays (and others) seem to make up a larger proportion of thr people on here then in the general population (of the us at least)

[The Steel Magnolia]

I didn't draw those conclusions from that small a post, but now that you've pointed it out...

In fairness it was a really small point. Mountains out of molehills fits admirably.

Doesn't mean the molehill isn't problematic though.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yeh, but I don't identify as white. Hardly anyone I know does. Yet, if someone said "The white person" you know immediately who they are talking about.

I find it baffling that you think it's bullshit, you of all people.
What about it do you think is bullshit, and remember, you're talking about my gender identity (or lack thereof), you're trying to force me to adopt a male gender identity. Something you explicitly hate when people do to you.

Forgive me if I find it a trifle hard to believe that someone who self identifies as a "human" more than anything else is truly transgender, and not just trying to make a political point.

It's appropriation, plain and simple.

Puh lease. The house-slaves don't deserve to be freed. They aren't beaten and whipped nearly as much as us field-slaves.

I'm not transgender. i do not have a gender. I just have a set of male genitals. That in no way effects my identity, as you yourself just got done arguing, the genitals are irrelevant to the identity. I do not feel male, I do not feel female. I identify as, well, me. No part of the Me I identify as particularly needs nor wants a gender, nor has one.

Rolling your eyes is a wonderful rebuttal to me pointing out how stupid your suggestion that because LGBT are oppressed MORE, that means we should completely shaft everyone else. You wanna come out in favor of house-slaves?
Got anything better than just avoiding the point?