NationStates

First, let me say that this is a repost of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=244145

The problem with the OP is that he didn't really do a good job in the OP; a youtube vid, a link and a one liner. Nevertheless, the thread generated a decent amount of discussion, so I'm going to create a valid OP.

Second, as we all should know a valid OP includes a brief description on what to discuss, a link, and the poster's own opinion. So here goes:

Long story short, due to Gorbachev-Yeltsin reforms, the situation of veterans who fought in post Soviet Conflicts was rather shameful; they were denied housing, and sometimes even food. In the "most Westernized Republic of Ukraine where Capitalism Reigns Supreme", (as if you can introduce actual Capitalism to a public that doesn't know the basics, well according to Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Dolts and Co. you can, according to reality, not quite so much,) the poor treatment of the military continued until 2008, with Yushenko's Revolution and all of that Foreign Funded crap hailed as the "Orange Revolution". In reality, Ukraine got more despair, and less Social Rights. And Yanukovich cannot undo two and a half decades of harmful crap in three years, so the situation for war vets in Ukraine is desperate, but hey, at least the PR masters have good housing. FTW right?

So they're making a proposal to Assad: "we'll help ya out, if you give us Social Rights!" Or, as they say: http://syriareport.net/report-russian-u ... rian-army/

A veteran Ukrainian intelligence officer made an unusual statement recently, pledging Russian and and Ukrainian volunteers for fighting alongside the Syrian army.

In a mid-May video statement announcing the establishment of the volunteer corps, Commander Sergey Razumovsky addressed his appeal ”all veterans of military service of the Soviet Union, all Russian and Ukrainian officers, residing in the Ukraine.”

Referring to poor living conditions of veterans in the country, namely “the lack of housing”, the former officer says that due to this situation, veterans can offer their skills to Syria in it’s efforts to restore constitutional order.

Recognising the fact that Syrian law does not allow foreigners to join the national armed forces, Razumovsky said Syria could give citizenship status to the volunteers, provide insurance to the volunteer’s families to help with the purchase of property after the war.

My view is - why the heck not? I'd rather die fighting than starving. Just seems like a quicker, less painful death. Also, Saudi Arabia is likely sending fighters, why not make a counter?

Third, the previous thread ended with Nixon and Blazedtown blaming Russia, and I have a sarcastic response that I must use:

Damn, I didn't know that Russia was skilled enough to create poverty conditions for war vets in Ukraine during Yushenko's term, who's as anti-Russian as you can get away with in Ukraine. I guess we're skilled like that /sarcasm

So NSG, thoughts?

I posted on the other thread. But it just shows how fucked up the whole Syrian situation is.

Anyone advocating intervention in that vortex needs psychiatric help.

Russian and Ukranian volunteers.

AKA "mercenaries"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18321748

Middle Eastern dictators have a habit of calling on the help of Eastern European contracted killers.

The Syrian Conflict never ceases to bemuse me.

To bad there isn't a Russian Valhalla...

Orthodox Christians are being massacred by jihadist insurgents in Syria with the complicity of the US and Britain.

That faith is strong in Russia; I would expect there would be some natural sympathies.

Pope Joan wrote:Orthodox Christians are being massacred by jihadist insurgents in Syria with the complicity of the US and Britain.

That faith is strong in Russia; I would expect there would be some natural sympathies.

Yeah, thats why they went to Serbia's aid during World War 1, the primary reason it escalated the way it did.

Pope Joan wrote:Orthodox Christians are being massacred by jihadist insurgents in Syria with the complicity of the US and Britain.

That faith is strong in Russia; I would expect there would be some natural sympathies.

Seriously, read the article...

Forster Keys wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:Orthodox Christians are being massacred by jihadist insurgents in Syria with the complicity of the US and Britain.

That faith is strong in Russia; I would expect there would be some natural sympathies.

Seriously, read the article...

Never, it's always best to take key words and make things up.

Novaya Tselinoyarsk wrote:

Forster Keys wrote:
Seriously, read the article...

Never, it's always best to take key words and make things up.

True. That way they can fit your agenda easier.

Forster Keys wrote:

Novaya Tselinoyarsk wrote:Never, it's always best to take key words and make things up.

True. That way they can fit your agenda easier.

Always been my MO.

Blazedtown wrote:

Forster Keys wrote:
True. That way they can fit your agenda easier.

Always been my MO.

Don't we know it.

"There are three different Orthodox churchs (in Ukraine): Ukranian Orthodox (Kiev Patriarchate), which claims 15 percent of the population; Ukranian Orthodox (Moscow Patriarchate), claiming 8 percent, and Ukranian Autocephalous Orthodox, 2 percent. Various nonpracticing Orthodox Christians, who regard themselves as part of the Orthodox culture but who have no link with any church, account for roughly 21 percent of the populaiton. Also, the Ukranian Greek Catholics claim another 8 percent."

http://books.google.com/books?id=wm3w1o ... on&f=false

I did not make that up.

"PanARMENIAN.Net - A statement has been published in Halebahayotion Facebook page, with rumors suggesting Christian women are raped in Aleppo, confirmed.

“To all the human race in all the world, we hereby notify you, full of anger and grief, that the gossip about Christian girls in Syria being raped while the offender praises Allah 3 times (saying Allah is the Greatest) is unfortunately true. We have confirmed the news but we do not know the exact number of victims."

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/152647/

"Now it is the Christians, who have largely sought to remain neutral, who are on the receiving end of abuse and attacks. For many, the choice now is between leaving the country or risking an uncertain and hazardous future.

Some in the Church are adamant about who is to blame – not just those carrying out the persecution, but those who are encouraging it to happen. For Archbishop Issam John Darwish of Furrzol, Zahle and the Bekaa, the responsibility for the attacks lay with "an influx of jihadists in the rebels in the last six, seven months". There is for him, as in so many such situations in the Middle East, the spectre of a "hidden hand". "I think the situation is being manipulated by the USA and maybe Israel – they want this to happen," he insisted."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74710.html

Pope Joan wrote:Orthodox Christians are being massacred by jihadist insurgents in Syria with the complicity of the US and Britain.

That faith is strong in Russia; I would expect there would be some natural sympathies.

Natural sympathies are no excuse for terrorism.

Why is it that the same people who are so loudly opposed to the foreign anti-Assad mercs are supportive of the pro-Assad mercs?

Pope Joan wrote:"There are three different Orthodox churchs (in Ukraine): Ukranian Orthodox (Kiev Patriarchate), which claims 15 percent of the population; Ukranian Orthodox (Moscow Patriarchate), claiming 8 percent, and Ukranian Autocephalous Orthodox, 2 percent. Various nonpracticing Orthodox Christians, who regard themselves as part of the Orthodox culture but who have no link with any church, account for roughly 21 percent of the populaiton. Also, the Ukranian Greek Catholics claim another 8 percent."

http://books.google.com/books?id=wm3w1o ... on&f=false

I did not make that up.

"PanARMENIAN.Net - A statement has been published in Halebahayotion Facebook page, with rumors suggesting Christian women are raped in Aleppo, confirmed.

“To all the human race in all the world, we hereby notify you, full of anger and grief, that the gossip about Christian girls in Syria being raped while the offender praises Allah 3 times (saying Allah is the Greatest) is unfortunately true. We have confirmed the news but we do not know the exact number of victims."

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/152647/

"Now it is the Christians, who have largely sought to remain neutral, who are on the receiving end of abuse and attacks. For many, the choice now is between leaving the country or risking an uncertain and hazardous future.

Some in the Church are adamant about who is to blame – not just those carrying out the persecution, but those who are encouraging it to happen. For Archbishop Issam John Darwish of Furrzol, Zahle and the Bekaa, the responsibility for the attacks lay with "an influx of jihadists in the rebels in the last six, seven months". There is for him, as in so many such situations in the Middle East, the spectre of a "hidden hand". "I think the situation is being manipulated by the USA and maybe Israel – they want this to happen," he insisted."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74710.html

I'm not saying that this isn't happening, and there's pretty much universal agreement that this is reprehensible, but according to the article there's no evidence to suggest that's why they're going.

Why did it get locked?

Brocwika wrote:Russian and Ukranian volunteers.

AKA "mercenaries"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18321748

Middle Eastern dictators have a habit of calling on the help of Eastern European contracted killers.

Volunteers aren't the same thing as contract killers. James Bond isn't just an investigative journalist either. Also, the Middle East produces contract killers on their own, and hires some from the West as well. Contract killers aren't limited to Eastern Europe.

Brocwika wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:Orthodox Christians are being massacred by jihadist insurgents in Syria with the complicity of the US and Britain.

That faith is strong in Russia; I would expect there would be some natural sympathies.

Yeah, thats why they went to Serbia's aid during World War 1, the primary reason it escalated the way it did.

WWI occurred because European Empires ran out of places to expand, formed two giant coalitions, and duked it out. If Francis Ferdinand wasn't going to be the reason, it would've been something else. Every time that empires run of out space, they fight.

Ensiferum wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:Orthodox Christians are being massacred by jihadist insurgents in Syria with the complicity of the US and Britain.

That faith is strong in Russia; I would expect there would be some natural sympathies.

Natural sympathies are no excuse for terrorism.

What terrorism is Pope Joan advocating for?

Regnum Dominae wrote:Why is it that the same people who are so loudly opposed to the foreign anti-Assad mercs are supportive of the pro-Assad mercs?

Volunteers, not mercs. Once again:

You do not have the right to make our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments, and if you actually go over there and do some of the fighting yourself, you might find one of us fighting alongside you. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.

Disserbia wrote:Why did it get locked?

Youtube link in OP + one other link + one line post + someone probably bitched about it. It's really up to the mods if they want to lock those threads or not. The solution is creating a much better OP

Forster Keys wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:"There are three different Orthodox churchs (in Ukraine): Ukranian Orthodox (Kiev Patriarchate), which claims 15 percent of the population; Ukranian Orthodox (Moscow Patriarchate), claiming 8 percent, and Ukranian Autocephalous Orthodox, 2 percent. Various nonpracticing Orthodox Christians, who regard themselves as part of the Orthodox culture but who have no link with any church, account for roughly 21 percent of the populaiton. Also, the Ukranian Greek Catholics claim another 8 percent."

http://books.google.com/books?id=wm3w1o ... on&f=false

I did not make that up.

"PanARMENIAN.Net - A statement has been published in Halebahayotion Facebook page, with rumors suggesting Christian women are raped in Aleppo, confirmed.

“To all the human race in all the world, we hereby notify you, full of anger and grief, that the gossip about Christian girls in Syria being raped while the offender praises Allah 3 times (saying Allah is the Greatest) is unfortunately true. We have confirmed the news but we do not know the exact number of victims."

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/152647/

"Now it is the Christians, who have largely sought to remain neutral, who are on the receiving end of abuse and attacks. For many, the choice now is between leaving the country or risking an uncertain and hazardous future.

Some in the Church are adamant about who is to blame – not just those carrying out the persecution, but those who are encouraging it to happen. For Archbishop Issam John Darwish of Furrzol, Zahle and the Bekaa, the responsibility for the attacks lay with "an influx of jihadists in the rebels in the last six, seven months". There is for him, as in so many such situations in the Middle East, the spectre of a "hidden hand". "I think the situation is being manipulated by the USA and maybe Israel – they want this to happen," he insisted."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74710.html

I'm not saying that this isn't happening, and there's pretty much universal agreement that this is reprehensible, but according to the article there's no evidence to suggest that's why they're going.

You're right. I even quoted the main reason that it's happening in the OP:

Referring to poor living conditions of veterans in the country, namely “the lack of housing”, the former officer says that due to this situation, veterans can offer their skills to Syria in it’s efforts to restore constitutional order.

Recognising the fact that Syrian law does not allow foreigners to join the national armed forces, Razumovsky said Syria could give citizenship status to the volunteers, provide insurance to the volunteer’s families to help with the purchase of property after the war.

Napkiraly wrote:To bad there isn't a Russian Valhalla...

Considering how Russia was born as a half-Slavic, half-Viking country, well...

Risottia wrote:

Napkiraly wrote:To bad there isn't a Russian Valhalla...

Considering how Russia was born as a half-Slavic, half-Viking country, well...

And half mongol too Eurasian... as they say. .

Shofercia wrote:

Brocwika wrote:Russian and Ukranian volunteers.

AKA "mercenaries"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18321748

Middle Eastern dictators have a habit of calling on the help of Eastern European contracted killers.

Volunteers aren't the same thing as contract killers. James Bond isn't just an investigative journalist either. Also, the Middle East produces contract killers on their own, and hires some from the West as well. Contract killers aren't limited to Eastern Europe.

Brocwika wrote:
Yeah, thats why they went to Serbia's aid during World War 1, the primary reason it escalated the way it did.

WWI occurred because European Empires ran out of places to expand, formed two giant coalitions, and duked it out. If Francis Ferdinand wasn't going to be the reason, it would've been something else. Every time that empires run of out space, they fight.

Ensiferum wrote:
Natural sympathies are no excuse for terrorism.

What terrorism is Pope Joan advocating for?

Regnum Dominae wrote:Why is it that the same people who are so loudly opposed to the foreign anti-Assad mercs are supportive of the pro-Assad mercs?

Volunteers, not mercs. Once again:

You do not have the right to make our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments, and if you actually go over there and do some of the fighting yourself, you might find one of us fighting alongside you. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.

Disserbia wrote:Why did it get locked?

Youtube link in OP + one other link + one line post + someone probably bitched about it. It's really up to the mods if they want to lock those threads or not. The solution is creating a much better OP

Soldier of Fortune, mercenary, contract killer, whatever man, all comes down to the same thing, a warrior for hire. And of course they come from everywhere, Arabs like the Eastern European ones though.

And I know how WW1 started, but the reason Russia allied itself with Serbia, was because it was another Eastern Orthodox nation.

So, Orthodox Christians are active once more in what used to be a Byzantine province.

This isn't that hard to deduce the conclusion.

Good Lord, Ukrainians siding with Assad? I'm so ashamed.

Cool. I guess?