So, Abortion.

[Frisivisia]

Sure she does. It is using her body. If you were sucking on my kneecap, I'd have every right to remove you by any means possible from my kneecap. That is my kneecap. Stop sucking on it. Now.

You do not have any legal obligations to protect and nurture me. A mother does have such obligations with respect to her children.

Good thing that fetuses are not children and are not applied with such obligations.

[Asuiop]

Actualky, the fetus has its whole life ahead of it to live for, it just doesn't know it yet.

It started with nothing, it ended with nothing; what has it lost: nothing!

It started with a developing body and brain, it ended with a developing body and brain; what has lost: A body, brain, and an entire life ahead of it

[Auralia]

Yes, but the sperm as an individual entity ceases to exist. Its constituent parts do not, but they merge with those of the egg to form a completely different entity: a zygote, which is a human being.

Look at the excerpts from embryology textbooks I posted earlier in this thread: they all agree that a human being is created at fertilization.

A zygote is not "A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens" and is therefore not a human being.

*sigh*. Yes it is:

Funny. I'd suggest the same, Delegate.

I'll do us both a favour and reproduce some relevant extracts from a wide variety of embryology texts:

A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).

[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.

Although life is a continuous process, fertilization (which, incidentally, is not a 'moment') is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte.

It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitues the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual.

The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops...the zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life.

Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition.

There seems to be a general consensus that a new human being is created at conception.

[United Marxist Nations]

It started with nothing, it ended with nothing; what has it lost: nothing!

It started with a developing body and brain, it ended with a developing body and brain; what has lost: A body, brain, and an entire life ahead of it

It doesn't give a fuck.

[Auralia]

You do not have any legal obligations to protect and nurture me. A mother does have such obligations with respect to her children.

Good thing that fetuses are not children and are not applied with such obligations.

A mother would have such obligations if it can be established that a fetus is a human being, and that's what I'm arguing.

[Desperate Measures]

Sure she does. It is using her body. If you were sucking on my kneecap, I'd have every right to remove you by any means possible from my kneecap. That is my kneecap. Stop sucking on it. Now.

You do not have any legal obligations to protect and nurture me. A mother does have such obligations with respect to her children.

At any point of childhood, the mother can give up the child.

[Planeia]

I'm taking it getting yourself knocked up while knowing you can't afford a baby wasn't a choice either? (Don't say "rape", I know of those cases. Don't say "mother's life" either because that's not this case)

No. Choosing to have sex isn't the same as choosing to have a baby.

Oh okay, so choosing not to use a condom is not the same as choosing to have a baby, I get it now.

[Zweite Alaje]

Which isn't that bad considering our shitty regulation of the border with Mexico. It probably be much more than that if we were legalize crack like some people want.

[citation needed]

You think there would be less drug use if drugs were legalized?

[Asuiop]

A 2 day old is completely dependant on her, and milk from her body. You still can't kill it.

It's illegal for her to remove the newborn? When was this?

Well, yes its illegal to kill a newborn. This was every time a baby was born and the mother doesn't have access to a bottle of milk/formula.

[Christo et Ecclesiae]

you just cant prosecute it. And it is cowardly.

Not if you believe in hell. That seems like some brave ass shit butt poop.

dont worry buddy I fixed your mistake.

[Olthar]

No, it matters to every woman and every man who has women he cares for.

Not this one.

You seem to misunderstand. I'm not arguing that legalizing abortion wouldn't make it safer, it probably would, I'm saying it is irrelevant to me supporting it or not.

Based on your posts so far, it actually seems more like you're saying that women who get abortions deserve to die. That more sounds like something a supervillain would say. I wonder how long it'll take for you to start laughing manically.

[Desperate Measures]

Good thing that fetuses are not children and are not applied with such obligations.

A mother would have such obligations if it can be established that a fetus is a human being, and that's what I'm arguing.

That's silly. Your argument should be on whether or not a fetus is a person. Of course it's human.

[Frisivisia]

*snip*

Appeals to authority are stupid and a hallmark of shit debating.

A human being is "A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens". None of these applies to fetuses or zygotes.

[United Marxist Nations]

Not if you believe in hell. That seems like some brave ass shit butt poop.

Oh no, the FCC!

[Frisivisia]

Good thing that fetuses are not children and are not applied with such obligations.

A mother would have such obligations if it can be established that a fetus is a human being, and that's what I'm arguing.

A human being is "A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens". Fetus isn't in there.

[Asuiop]

It started with a developing body and brain, it ended with a developing body and brain; what has lost: A body, brain, and an entire life ahead of it

It doesn't give a fuck.

Because it can't think completely yet. By your standards it would be okay to kill someone in a coma since they can't think about how they don't want to be killed.

[Mavorpen]

[citation needed]

You think there would be less drug use if drugs were legalized?

No. She's saying that it wouldn't increase if they were legalized. And lo and behold, there's significant evidence to support this.

[Olthar]

[citation needed]

You think there would be less drug use if drugs were legalized?

That's completely irrelevant to everything. I'm asking for a source for your claim that legalizing drugs would increase drug use. You still refuse to provide such a source.

[Auralia]

Not really. A terminal patient is a human being, so any end-of-life care decision must respect their right to life.

The issue is not that they have a right to life, it's that they have a right to decide the manner of their own deaths, such as with 'do not resuscitate/intubate' or 'allow natural death' orders.

With all due respect, that's an entirely different debate that has little to do with abortion.

Brain dead patients are not human beings (as they have suffered an irreversible end to all brain activity) so they do not have a right to life.

That, however, contradicts with your earlier statement - if human beings deserve rights simply because they are human beings, and brain dead patients are still demonstrably alive. Therefore, they still have personhood rights.

Huh? I stated that human beings have the inherent capacity for sentience, not a functioning cardiovascular system. Brain dead patients have suffered the irreversible loss of total brain function, and so they do not have the inherent capacity for sentience.

[Desperate Measures]

Not if you believe in hell. That seems like some brave ass shit butt poop.

When I say "ass shit", I mean to say "ass shit". I never use those words in conjunction lightly.

[Frisivisia]

[citation needed]

You think there would be less drug use if drugs were legalized?

You're really bad at wriggling out of backing up your arguments.

[The Occident]

Not the woman in question? Then your opinion of what she does with her fetus doesn't matter.

[Frisivisia]

Not the woman in question? Then your opinion of what she does with her fetus doesn't matter.

DUHJENUHRIT.

[United Marxist Nations]

It doesn't give a fuck.

Because it can't think completely yet. By your standards it would be okay to kill someone in a coma since they can't think about how they don't want to be killed.

The comatose person has previous thoughts; he/she would object, the fetus would not under any circumstance.

[Condunum]

You think there would be less drug use if drugs were legalized?

No. She's saying that it wouldn't increase if they were legalized. And lo and behold, there's significant evidence to support this.

I'd just like to point out one thing.

"10 g a month (probably 25-35 joints)"

That is a thin fucking joint.