So, Abortion.

[Auralia]

The sperm doesn't 'cease to exist' at fertilization, it merges with the egg. Maternal and paternal gene products (ie components of the sperm and egg's cytoplasm) are incredibly important in directing the development of the zygote.

Yes, but the sperm as an individual entity ceases to exist. Its constituent parts do not, but they merge with those of the egg to form a completely different entity: a zygote, which is a human being.

Look at the excerpts from embryology textbooks I posted earlier in this thread: they all agree that a human being is created at fertilization.

[Frisivisia]

Maybe to us. There is no inherent value in anything.

is a gnat of equal value to you to your own kin?

Not to me. Value, however, is subjective, and I'm sure that gnat feels very much differently.

[Individuality-ness]

Why the fuck would I want to do that? That's just stupid. Also, you have something to live for, a fetus doesn't..

Actualky, the fetus has its whole life ahead of it to live for, it just doesn't know it yet.

No it doesn't. It's a potential life, not definite. You have a definite life.

[Christo et Ecclesiae]

Hey, here's a better idea. Why don't we legalize suicide and let the fetus grow up to decide the validity of that them self?

Suicide is legal.

you just cant prosecute it. And it is cowardly.

[Herador]

Suicide is legal.

You gotta admit, it's funny seeing these people basically admit that they've never reached the 21st century

It's pretty much the only reason to come into these threads anymore.

Suicide is legal.

you just cant prosecute it. And it is cowardly.

This matters how?

[United Marxist Nations]

Why the fuck would I want to do that? That's just stupid. Also, you have something to live for, a fetus doesn't..

Actualky, the fetus has its whole life ahead of it to live for, it just doesn't know it yet.

It started with nothing, it ended with nothing; what has it lost: nothing!

[Frisivisia]

The sperm doesn't 'cease to exist' at fertilization, it merges with the egg. Maternal and paternal gene products (ie components of the sperm and egg's cytoplasm) are incredibly important in directing the development of the zygote.

Yes, but the sperm as an individual entity ceases to exist. Its constituent parts do not, but they merge with those of the egg to form a completely different entity: a zygote, which is a human being.

Look at the excerpts from embryology textbooks I posted earlier in this thread: they all agree that a human being is created at fertilization.

A zygote is not "A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens" and is therefore not a human being.

[Zweite Alaje]

How many people do you know that have crack or heroine?

About 8.9% of American citizens.

Which isn't that bad considering our shitty regulation of the border with Mexico. It probably be much more than that if we were legalize crack like some people want.

[Avenio]

Not really. A terminal patient is a human being, so any end-of-life care decision must respect their right to life.

The issue is not that they have a right to life, it's that they have a right to decide the manner of their own deaths, such as with 'do not resuscitate/intubate' or 'allow natural death' orders.

Brain dead patients are not human beings (as they have suffered an irreversible end to all brain activity) so they do not have a right to life.

That, however, contradicts with your earlier statement - if human beings deserve rights simply because they are human beings, and brain dead patients are still demonstrably alive. Therefore, they still have personhood rights.

[Mavorpen]

About 8.9% of American citizens.

Which isn't that bad considering our shitty regulation of the border with Mexico. It probably be much more than that if we were legalize crack like some people want.

And not a single source was given on that day by Alaje.

[Auralia]

Hey, here's a better idea. Why don't we legalize suicide and let the fetus grow up to decide the validity of that them self?

Suicide is legal.

Not really. It's de facto legal for obvious reasons, but the state actively takes steps to prevent it. Assisted suicide is also illegal in most countries.

[Frisivisia]

Suicide is legal.

you just cant prosecute it. And it is cowardly.

Not necessarily. Socrates's suicide was very much uncowardly.

[Olthar]

About 8.9% of American citizens.

Which isn't that bad considering our shitty regulation of the border with Mexico. It probably be much more than that if we were legalize crack like some people want.

[citation needed]

[Condunum]

Which isn't that bad considering our shitty regulation of the border with Mexico. It probably be much more than that if we were legalize crack like some people want.

And not a single source was given on that day by Alaje.

And not a single person took him seriously, either. *nod*

[Asuiop]

A mother does not have the right to kill her child.

Sure she does. It is using her body. If you were sucking on my kneecap, I'd have every right to remove you by any means possible from my kneecap. That is my kneecap. Stop sucking on it. Now.

A 2 day old is completely dependant on her, and milk from her body. You still can't kill it.

[Frisivisia]

Suicide is legal.

Not really. It's de facto legal for obvious reasons, but the state actively takes steps to prevent it. Assisted suicide is also illegal in most countries.

Suicide is legal. Legal as fuck.

[Desperate Measures]

Suicide is legal.

you just cant prosecute it. And it is cowardly.

Not if you believe in hell. That seems like some brave ass shit.

[Christo et Ecclesiae]

is a gnat of equal value to you to your own kin?

Not to me. Value, however, is subjective, and I'm sure that gnat feels very much differently.

gnats have feelings?

[Frisivisia]

Sure she does. It is using her body. If you were sucking on my kneecap, I'd have every right to remove you by any means possible from my kneecap. That is my kneecap. Stop sucking on it. Now.

A 2 day old is completely dependant on her, and milk from her body. You still can't kill it.

Nope. Formula is a thing.

[Auralia]

A mother does not have the right to kill her child.

Sure she does. It is using her body. If you were sucking on my kneecap, I'd have every right to remove you by any means possible from my kneecap. That is my kneecap. Stop sucking on it. Now.

You do not have any legal obligations to protect and nurture me. A mother does have such obligations with respect to her children.

[Atollus]

Suicide is legal.

you just cant prosecute it. And it is cowardly.

Depends on the method actually. Seppuku takes real guts. And a whole lot of trust in your second. Otherwise its not going to be a fun death.

[Frisivisia]

Not to me. Value, however, is subjective, and I'm sure that gnat feels very much differently.

gnats have feelings?

I'm sure they have a survival motivation, otherwise, I can't imagine they would have weathered evolution this long.

[Desperate Measures]

Sure she does. It is using her body. If you were sucking on my kneecap, I'd have every right to remove you by any means possible from my kneecap. That is my kneecap. Stop sucking on it. Now.

A 2 day old is completely dependant on her, and milk from her body. You still can't kill it.

It's illegal for her to remove the newborn? When was this?

[Zweite Alaje]

"Safe and regulated" abortions something which only matters to choicers.

No, it matters to every woman and every man who has women he cares for.

Not this one.

You seem to misunderstand. I'm not arguing that legalizing abortion wouldn't make it safer, it probably would, I'm saying it is irrelevant to me supporting it or not.

[Herador]

you just cant prosecute it. And it is cowardly.

Depends on the method actually. Seppuku takes real guts. And a whole lot of trust in your second. Otherwise its not going to be a fun death.