So, Abortion.

[Asuiop]

I read the fucking article. I know its overstretched, but does that meanmwe should kill human beings to keep it from becomi more overstretched?

Not human beings. I already addressed that.

They are human beings, I also addressed that.

[United Marxist Nations]

Killing a fetus is killing something without the capacity to think and has never had a thought, it is not-sentient; hence, it is akin to killing a lower animal (i.e. a rat, deer, etc.).

When a baby is first born, it has about the mental capacity of a deer. Does that make it allright to kill it?

The law prohibits it at that point, as it is then a person.

[Josh Beaty]

Why should abortion be legal? Some argue that once the baby becomes a legal entity then it is murder. So the baby just didn't exist until he or she was born? Someone please explain the logic behind that.
ALSO
Take any animal: A pig for example. If I were to go to a pregnant pig and kill the fetus, would you not say that I murdered the baby pig? Why do the standards suddenly change when we talk about humans?

[Mavorpen]

One thing, yay. So you're gonna tell me liberalism is responsible for all scientific advances, right?

Of course not. I don't view the world in black and white. I'm not a child. Some people however, can't help but do just that it seems.

[Frisivisia]

So you admit to supporting murder?

She wanted an abortion, right? If she dies from it, it's her and the hack job doctor's fault.

It's like you want everyone to look at you and say, "Hey, that guy's a total dick!"

[Individuality-ness]

In many cases, abortion is a better alternative to giving birth to a child that's going to end up being unwanted. And abortion is a much better option than having to grow up in poverty, and much better than starvation and malnutrition.

Death is better than living in poverty?

Have you ever tried living in the slums, or in poverty? It pretty much fucking sucks balls. You're running the risk of malnutrition, you don't get regular meals, you're living in an unsafe environment where crime is rampant. Etc.

[Planeia]

I think this deserves a:


Yes, it is her choice. I know a guy who is alive today because his teenage mother decided not to abort him.

Why would I care about that?

Over 42% of women who have an abortion are under the poverty level. For these women, it's either have another mouth to feed and stretch those dollars farther or abort and risk death to live another day. That's not really a choice.

I'm taking it getting yourself knocked up while knowing you can't afford a baby wasn't a choice either? (Don't say "rape", I know of those cases. Don't say "mother's life" either because that's not this case)

[Olthar]

In many cases, abortion is a better alternative to giving birth to a child that's going to end up being unwanted. And abortion is a much better option than having to grow up in poverty, and much better than starvation and malnutrition.

Death is better than living in poverty?

Oftentimes, yes. A life of suffering can certainly be worse than no life at all.

So you admit to supporting murder?

She wanted an abortion, right? If she dies from it, it's her and the hack job doctor's fault.

Or it's the fault of the people who wouldn't let her get a safe, regulated abortion.

[Frisivisia]

Not human beings. I already addressed that.

They are human beings, I also addressed that.

Human being is defined as "A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens". Fetuses are not men, women, or children, and are therefore not human beings.

[Avenio]

You'll have to clarify that statement for me.

It makes end-of-life care decisions and the circumstances surrounding brain dead patients very hard to work with, for instance.

[Asuiop]

Death is better than living in poverty?

Have you ever tried living in the slums, or in poverty? It pretty much fucking sucks balls. You're running the risk of malnutrition, you don't get regular meals, you're living in an unsafe environment where crime is rampant. Etc.

Try going up to a man living in poverty with a gun and try to shoot him. Notice he runs away? Notice how he wants to live?

[Auralia]

Fair enough. That particular conviction stems from a religious belief that humans have souls, which is sufficient to justify human rights.

I do wish people would be more honest about the religious foundation to their pro-life beliefs. Makes all this mental gymnastics about sapience that much easier to cut through.

You don't have to be religious to be pro-life. It is possible to argue the case on purely secular grounds.

From a secular perspective, I would argue that any entity with the inherent capacity for sapience (i.e. the ability to develop sapience over time) should have rights.

'Inherent capacity for sapience' is a very messy argument, since the 'inherent' part doesn't actually apply - unless you're prepared to argue that sperm should be protected as having an 'inherent capacity for sapience'.

Sperm do not have an inherent capacity for sapience. They can never become sapient in the course of their development, because they are not human beings. At fertilization, the sperm ceases to exist.

[Individuality-ness]

Why would I care about that?

Over 42% of women who have an abortion are under the poverty level. For these women, it's either have another mouth to feed and stretch those dollars farther or abort and risk death to live another day. That's not really a choice.

I'm taking it getting yourself knocked up while knowing you can't afford a baby wasn't a choice either? (Don't say "rape", I know of those cases. Don't say "mother's life" either because that's not this case)

No. Choosing to have sex isn't the same as choosing to have a baby.

[Frisivisia]

Why should abortion be legal? Some argue that once the baby becomes a legal entity then it is murder. So the baby just didn't exist until he or she was born? Someone please explain the logic behind that.
ALSO
Take any animal: A pig for example. If I were to go to a pregnant pig and kill the fetus, would you not say that I murdered the baby pig? Why do the standards suddenly change when we talk about humans?

2/10, try harder.

[Christo et Ecclesiae]

Killing a fetus is killing something without the capacity to think and has never had a thought, it is not-sentient; hence, it is akin to killing a lower animal (i.e. a rat, deer, etc.).

Killing a rat or deer is more morally objectionable than killing a fetus because at least they have the capacity to feel pain.

how can you say that? How can you be okay with killing something of the same species but not something lower than us?

[Condunum]

In spite of Liberalism, not because of it.

*cough*bullshit*cough*

Here we have our finest specimen of the liberal degenerate: Mavorpen. Mavorpen usually cannot be arsed to provide sources for rather obvious things. When he does, however, they're pretty spot on.

[Frisivisia]

Killing a rat or deer is more morally objectionable than killing a fetus because at least they have the capacity to feel pain.

how can you say that? How can you be okay with killing something of the same species but not something lower than us?

Nothing is lower than us or higher than us.

[United Marxist Nations]

Have you ever tried living in the slums, or in poverty? It pretty much fucking sucks balls. You're running the risk of malnutrition, you don't get regular meals, you're living in an unsafe environment where crime is rampant. Etc.

Try going up to a man living in poverty with a gun and try to shoot him. Notice he runs away? Notice how he wants to live?

False equivalency; the man has something to live for, a fetus does not.

[Asuiop]

When a baby is first born, it has about the mental capacity of a deer. Does that make it allright to kill it?

The law prohibits it at that point, as it is then a person.

Both the fetus and the baby have about the intelligence of a loser animal, and since you have been basing your arguement on the small brain of a fetus, that would mean that the law would extend to the fetus due to the similiar brain sizes/Capacity/Activity.

[Frisivisia]

*cough*bullshit*cough*

Here we have our finest specimen of the liberal degenerate: Mavorpen. Mavorpen usually cannot be arsed to provide sources for rather obvious things. When he does, however, they're pretty spot on.

LIBRUL DUHJENUHRITS KILIN BABBYS N NOT HATTIN WIMMN.

[Avenio]

So the baby just didn't exist until he or she was born? Someone please explain the logic behind that.

Legal personhood is granted upon birth, when the baby in question is given citizenship rights and is put under the legal protection of their parent/guardian.

[Individuality-ness]

Have you ever tried living in the slums, or in poverty? It pretty much fucking sucks balls. You're running the risk of malnutrition, you don't get regular meals, you're living in an unsafe environment where crime is rampant. Etc.

Try going up to a man living in poverty with a gun and try to shoot him. Notice he runs away? Notice how he wants to live?

He was already a person with feelings, sentience, etc. Fetuses are potential persons, and they cannot make choices. Is it not better to save that child from future suffering now?

[Frisivisia]

The law prohibits it at that point, as it is then a person.

Both the fetus and the baby have about the intelligence of a loser animal, and since you have been basing your arguement on the small brain of a fetus, that would mean that the law would extend to the fetus due to the similiar brain sizes.

Oooooh, I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?

[Zweite Alaje]

The federal government was also much less interventionist in the 1920s, the early FBI (est. 1908) was severely undermanned and underfunded. If we did prohibition now, it would most likely work. Abortion would be made incredibly difficult.

And that's why the current War on Drugs has been so successful, right?

How many people do you know that have crack or heroine?

She wanted an abortion, right? If she dies from it, it's her and the hack job doctor's fault.

It's like you want everyone to look at you and say, "Hey, that guy's a total dick!"

No, actually I don't. I don't real care if you think I'm a dick or not, I'm simply speaking my piece.

[United Marxist Nations]

The law prohibits it at that point, as it is then a person.

Both the fetus and the baby have about the intelligence of a loser animal, and since you have been basing your arguement on the small brain of a fetus, that would mean that the law would extend to the fetus due to the similiar brain sizes/Capacity/Activity.

Fetus, yeah, go ahead and kill that thing.

Baby, no, not so much.