So, Abortion.

[Dakini]

Hmm... I'm not sure where to go on the relevant to thread versions, so I'll take a diversion...

"Gravity didn't want to hurt you, you unknowingly picked a terrible parachute so when you jumped and it didn't deploy, the rapid deceleration upon hitting the ground forced your shinbones to splinter into a million pieces."

...a diversion to physics puns.

Poor gravity.

"HCl didn't want to hurt you, you unknowingly splashed some 3.00 M solution on your arm and the acid was forced to dissolve through your lab coat and onto your skin."

"The toaster didn't want to shock you, you unknowingly completed the circuit by shoving a fork into it while trying to retrieve your bagel and the electrons were forced to surge through your body."

[Vazdania]

I'm done. You clearly have no intention of debating this topic or of addressing my arguments, so I'll stop wasting my time.

Then kindly fuck off instead of trumpeting shit everywhere. Freak.

don't be mean do not call people names here. That is not appropriate for NS.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

I'm not a misogynist

Really? Not what the following conversation tells me.

Sounds pretty selfish of that human being to expect me to allow it to use my body as a life support machine when I don't want it there.
Granted, I recognize that embryos do not have feelings or a concept of self so being selfish is beyond their capabilities.

you chose to have sex though initially and you know the consequences of having sex which The possibility of a child which must develop first.

You do realize that woman just can not have procreative sex on their own, right? But you have the gall to say this:

fucking no. The women consented to sex which may or may not result in a fetus depending on if nature allows the child to remain in the womb. Now the women knowingly had sex and know the consequences thereof. ALL people start out life in such a (albeit parasitic) manner, but even parasites are organisms.

Right. The woman consented to sex (which may or may not) result in a fetus (which may or may not) embed in the womb. But the woman who couldn't resist lust and decided to consent to sex has to bear all the responsibilities that befalls on her shoulder even if men don't.

unfortunately.

[Individuality-ness]

Poor gravity.

"HCl didn't want to hurt you, you unknowingly splashed some 3.00 M solution on your arm and the acid was forced to dissolve through your lab coat and onto your skin."

"The toaster didn't want to shock you, you unknowingly completed the circuit by shoving a fork into it while trying to retrieve your bagel and the electrons were forced to surge through your body."

"That cancer cell didn't want to kill you, you unknowingly put carcinogens into your chest because you were addicted to nicotine and the cell was forced to mutate and become cancerous and kill you."

[Dakini]

Hmm... I'm not sure where to go on the relevant to thread versions, so I'll take a diversion...

"Gravity didn't want to hurt you, you unknowingly picked a terrible parachute so when you jumped and it didn't deploy, the rapid deceleration upon hitting the ground forced your shinbones to splinter into a million pieces."

...a diversion to physics puns.

Thats actually pretty good

Yeah,

"The joke didn't want a physics pun to be made, but the inclusion of "force" in its set up meant I was forced to go there."

[Auralia]

I'm done. You clearly have no intention of debating this topic or of addressing my arguments, so I'll stop wasting my time.

Then kindly fuck off instead of trumpeting shit everywhere. Freak.

Reported to Moderation, along with one of your earlier comments.

[Vazdania]

I'm not a misogynist

Really? Not what the following conversation tells me.

Sounds pretty selfish of that human being to expect me to allow it to use my body as a life support machine when I don't want it there.
Granted, I recognize that embryos do not have feelings or a concept of self so being selfish is beyond their capabilities.

you chose to have sex though initially and you know the consequences of having sex which The possibility of a child which must develop first.

You do realize that woman just can not have procreative sex on their own, right? But you have the gall to say this:

Right. The woman consented to sex (which may or may not) result in a fetus (which may or may not) embed in the womb. But the woman who couldn't resist lust and decided to consent to sex has to bear all the responsibilities that befalls on her shoulder even if men don't.

unfortunately.

that is not misogyny. That is placing responsibility where responsibility is due.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

don't be mean do not call people names here. That is not appropriate for NS.

Let me teach you something. Just because you can't get some and you are sexually frustrated and asexual, and can't understand why women might want to have sex doesn't mean you can just put all responsibility of unwanted pregnancy on women's shoulders alone. Got it, kid?

[Dakini]

"The toaster didn't want to shock you, you unknowingly completed the circuit by shoving a fork into it while trying to retrieve your bagel and the electrons were forced to surge through your body."

"That cancer cell didn't want to kill you, you unknowingly put carcinogens into your chest because you were addicted to nicotine and the cell was forced to mutate and become cancerous and kill you."

Oh, nice.

"The rat didn't really want to play near cats, but it unknowingly became infected with T. gondii and its newfound attraction to the smell of cat urine forced it to hang around felines."

[Vazdania]

don't be mean do not call people names here. That is not appropriate for NS.

Let me teach you something. Just because you can't get some and you are sexually frustrated and asexual, and can't understand why women might want to have sex doesn't mean you can just put all responsibility of unwanted pregnancy on women's shoulders alone. Got it, kid?

I don't want to be taught anything from a person who calls another person "freak" as you did.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Let me teach you something. Just because you can't get some and you are sexually frustrated and asexual, and can't understand why women might want to have sex doesn't mean you can just put all responsibility of unwanted pregnancy on women's shoulders alone. Got it, kid?

I don't want to be taught anything from a person who calls another person "freak" as you did.

Your choice to remain ignorant.

[Dakini]

don't be mean do not call people names here. That is not appropriate for NS.

Let me teach you something. Just because you can't get some and you are sexually frustrated and asexual, and can't understand why women might want to have sex doesn't mean you can just put all responsibility of unwanted pregnancy on women's shoulders alone. Got it, kid?

...maybe chill out a little. There's no need for that.

[Individuality-ness]

"That cancer cell didn't want to kill you, you unknowingly put carcinogens into your chest because you were addicted to nicotine and the cell was forced to mutate and become cancerous and kill you."

Oh, nice.

"The rat didn't really want to play near cats, but it unknowingly became infected with T. gondii and its newfound attraction to the smell of cat urine forced it to hang around felines."

Science nerds unite!

"The deadline didn't mean to be crossed in two hours, you unknowingly lost time making analogies on NationStates General in order to mock someone's asinine argument and time was forced to push the deadline much closer."

[Vazdania]

I don't want to be taught anything from a person who calls another person "freak" as you did.

Your choice to remain ignorant.

And yes you can put the responsibility of unwanted pregnancy on women, they carry the fetus. It would be the same if a man carried a child. The father should be their too, and if they are not then they should be forced to care for it via money sent to the mother.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Your choice to remain ignorant.

And yes you can put the responsibility of unwanted pregnancy on women, they carry the fetus. It would be the same if a man carried a child. The father should be their too, and if they are not then they should be forced to care for it via money sent to the mother.

Since you replied, I'll reply.
It is not the same if a man carried a child. That is not reality. Stop trying to equate it somehow to the reality that women have to carry a child if abortion services are accessible to her in the event of an unwanted pregnancy. You clearly think this is some academic debating matter that man theoretically (according to you) would be as liable as women, but it take two to tango, and your inability to relate to women who have to make difficult decisions regarding abortion is just absolutely disgusting.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Then kindly fuck off instead of trumpeting shit everywhere. Freak.

Reported to Moderation, along with one of your earlier comments.

Hey, last word freak,are you done? Next time TG that stuff. Now get out.

[Individuality-ness]

Reported to Moderation, along with one of your earlier comments.

Hey, last word freak, are you done? Next time TG that stuff. Now get out.

... you might want to cool down, you really shouldn't be calling people "freaks", no matter how much you disagree with a person's argument. That's flaming, and that's against site rules.

[Vazdania]

And yes you can put the responsibility of unwanted pregnancy on women, they carry the fetus. It would be the same if a man carried a child. The father should be their too, and if they are not then they should be forced to care for it via money sent to the mother.

Since you replied, I'll reply.
It is not the same if a man carried a child. That is not reality. Stop trying to equate it somehow to the reality that women have to carry a child if abortion services are accessible to her in the event of an unwanted pregnancy. You clearly think this is some academic debating matter that man theoretically (according to you) would be as liable as women, but it take two to tango, and your inability to relate to women who have to make difficult decisions regarding abortion is just absolutely disgusting.

Abortion services SHOULD be stopped altogether except in cases of rape and if it will kill her. If those services are around they should be stopped.

Relating to women is irrelevant to this.

[Dakini]

Oh, nice.

"The rat didn't really want to play near cats, but it unknowingly became infected with T. gondii and its newfound attraction to the smell of cat urine forced it to hang around felines."

Science nerds unite!

"The deadline didn't mean to be crossed in two hours, you unknowingly lost time making analogies on NationStates General in order to mock someone's asinine argument and time was forced to push the deadline much closer."

Hehehe.

"The IAU didn't mean to annoy everyone by demoting Pluto, it unknowingly found itself in the Kuiper belt with many other and sometimes larger objects which forced them to declare it nothing special."

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Since you replied, I'll reply.
It is not the same if a man carried a child. That is not reality. Stop trying to equate it somehow to the reality that women have to carry a child if abortion services are accessible to her in the event of an unwanted pregnancy. You clearly think this is some academic debating matter that man theoretically (according to you) would be as liable as women, but it take two to tango, and your inability to relate to women who have to make difficult decisions regarding abortion is just absolutely disgusting.

Abortion services SHOULD be stopped altogether except in cases of rape and if it will kill her. If those services are around they should be stopped.

Relating to women is irrelevant to this.

YOU have started this argument with women:
1) how if women consent to sex
2) they are consenting to risk of pregnancy, but are not consenting to pregnancy
Right. It was this:

fucking no. The women consented to sex which may or may not result in a fetus depending on if nature allows the child to remain in the womb. Now the women knowingly had sex and know the consequences thereof. ALL people start out life in such a (albeit parasitic) manner, but even parasites are organisms.

Right. The woman consented to sex (which may or may not) result in a fetus (which may or may not) embed in the womb. But the woman who couldn't resist lust and decided to consent to sex has to bear all the responsibilities that befalls on her shoulder even if men don't.

unfortunately.

3) and notwithstanding the distinction in both cases, no abortion should be allowed.
YOU have consistently made that argument.

[Dakini]

Abortion services SHOULD be stopped altogether except in cases of rape and if it will kill her. If those services are around they should be stopped.

Relating to women is irrelevant to this.

YOU have started this argument with women:
1) how if women consent to sex
2) they are consenting to risk of pregnancy, but are not consenting to pregnancy
3) and notwithstanding the distinction in both cases, no abortion should be allowed.
YOU have consistently made that argument.

Argument 2 was someone else.

[Individuality-ness]

Science nerds unite!

"The deadline didn't mean to be crossed in two hours, you unknowingly lost time making analogies on NationStates General in order to mock someone's asinine argument and time was forced to push the deadline much closer."

Hehehe.

"The IAU didn't mean to annoy everyone by demoting Pluto, it unknowingly found itself in the Kuiper belt with many other and sometimes larger objects which forced them to declare it nothing special."

Thankfully my deadlines happen to be in three days.

"Chris Hadfield didn't mean to wow us and make us much more interested in science, he unknowingly posted pictures on Twitter regarding his life during his tenure as Commander on the International Space Station and made a music video cover of Space Oddity that forced people to start being interested in space exploration and science education as a whole."

[Dakini]

Hehehe.

"The IAU didn't mean to annoy everyone by demoting Pluto, it unknowingly found itself in the Kuiper belt with many other and sometimes larger objects which forced them to declare it nothing special."

Thankfully my deadlines happen to be in three days.

"Chris Hadfield didn't mean to wow us and make us much more interested in science, he unknowingly posted pictures on Twitter regarding his life during his tenure as Commander on the International Space Station and made a music video cover of Space Oddity that forced people to start being interested in space exploration and science education as a whole."

Apparently his kids are actually the ones who convinced him to go on twitter.

"You didn't want to have three pages of symbols, acronyms and assorted jargon in your thesis, you unknowingly use a lot of them so you're forced to put in a giant list."

[Swith Witherward]

I always hear "It's my body" and "don't violate my body" yet I can't help but wonder why so many women are unaware of their biological functions. If we are going to demand ownership of our bodies, we need to take ownership instead of this ludicrous "I didn't know I was fertile because I don't understand how my body works, and it's HIS fault too because he should know I'm fertile" attitude.

A couple attempting to have a child can tell you (down to the day) when the greatest chance of pregnancy will occur. It doesn't happen often. There's usually only one shot at it a month. Human females experience hidden estrus, meaning that we don't show overt signs when we're in our fertile stage however we can detect our fertility using OTC methods, etc.

The pill or shot is not 100% foolproof but it lessens the chance. There are things that affect fertility, especially BC pills or taking antibiotics while on BC pills (this fact is drilled into us by our doctors, the pharmacy literature and the box the pills come in. We're even advised to use extra precaution when on antibiotics.) Skipping BC doses can affect the cycle.

Women not on the pill tend to ovulate every 28 days. It's fairly common (in the majority of women) to ovulate 14 days after the menstrual cycle begins. Some women have shorter or longer cycles but they can gauge it with the help of their gynecologist. Going without sex for 3-4 days isn't the end of the world.

It doesn't take much for a "biologically savvy" woman to prevent pregnancy. It does take willpower, intelligence and being in tune with your body. We also know that "going bareback" is just asking for trouble (with more worry over an STD than over a pregnancy) regardless of whether or not we use other contraceptive methods. As women, it's our responsibility to safeguard ourselves.

Abortion should be the last resort when all methods (including abstaining while fertile) have failed. We need to educate women, especially those in brackets where unintended pregnancy is prevalent. “A better understanding of the multiple dimensions of unintended pregnancy also may lead to a better understanding of the consequences of these pregnancies.” (The measurement and meaning of unintended pregnancy. Perspect Sex Reprod Health. 2003;35(2):94–101.)



Apart from this argument is the fact that sexual victimization (rape, etc) can lead to unwanted pregnancy. This is totally outside a woman's ability to control. Preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from rape should take precedence, and emergency contraception (the "morning after pill") and other treatments should be made available to victims, even if the end result is a therapeutic abortion. Likewise, terminating pregnancies that pose a serious risk to the mother or where the fetus is already compromised should remain an option for all women.

[Individuality-ness]

Thankfully my deadlines happen to be in three days.

"Chris Hadfield didn't mean to wow us and make us much more interested in science, he unknowingly posted pictures on Twitter regarding his life during his tenure as Commander on the International Space Station and made a music video cover of Space Oddity that forced people to start being interested in space exploration and science education as a whole."

Apparently his kids are actually the ones who convinced him to go on twitter.

"You didn't want to have three pages of symbols, acronyms and assorted jargon in your thesis, you unknowingly use a lot of them so you're forced to put in a giant list."

Really? RESPECT. Best decision ever made. *nod*

"You didn't want to be silly in a thread about abortion on NationStates General, you unknowingly mocked an asinine argument so much that the thread itself was forced to get sillier and sillier as it went on."