So, Abortion.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Where do you live?

ye olde Idaho

More specifically please.

[Vazdania]

so don't get an abortion then.

No guarantees. (there should be a winky smiley face that does one of those gun motions with its hand)

I mean, if I never get unexpectedly pregnant, I'll never have an abortion. I'll give you that much. Does that make you feel better? Do you feel like you've got to assert your imagined right to tell me what I should do with my body?

I'm not telling you what to do with your body, but because a person goes out and has sex and doesn't want a child, that shouldn't mean that the child shouldn't have an opportunity to develop into a person.

[Vazdania]

ye olde Idaho

More specifically please.

I think that's sufficient.

[Dakini]

I'm not killing a human being, I'm terminating a pregnancy (hypothetically).

Also, it's not coming at me with a knife, it's already violated my body!

Terminating pregnancy = abortion = killing fetus = killing human being

Nah, it's more like an eviction.

It didn't violate your body on purpose, you unknowingly forced it to violate your body.

Do you make this argument about rapists too? "He didn't violate your body on purpose, you unknowingly forced him to violate your body by wearing a short skirt."

[Asuiop]

you unknowingly forced it to violate your body.

Do you listen to yourself? Do you know how that sounds?

It was from your actions that it came to be inside your body and dependant on you. It had no say or choice in the matter.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

So voluntary euthanasia = effectively suicide. Your incisiveness is breathtaking.
Anyways, who gets to determine if the patient will die within the next year or so?

The doctor. What does this have to do with abortion?

And of course the doctors are very accurate with their ability to determine when a patient is likely to die.
abortion? Who said anything about abortion? You said it was all ethics, didn't you?

You are all obsessed with legality and court cases and dictionary definitions that you completely ignore the most important part! The Ethics!

[Asuiop]

Terminating pregnancy = abortion = killing fetus = killing human being

Nah, it's more like an eviction.

It didn't violate your body on purpose, you unknowingly forced it to violate your body.

Do you make this argument about rapists too? "He didn't violate your body on purpose, you unknowingly forced him to violate your body by wearing a short skirt."

That analogy has nothing to do with what I was saying. Try again.

[Dakini]

No guarantees. (there should be a winky smiley face that does one of those gun motions with its hand)

I mean, if I never get unexpectedly pregnant, I'll never have an abortion. I'll give you that much. Does that make you feel better? Do you feel like you've got to assert your imagined right to tell me what I should do with my body?

I'm not telling you what to do with your body, but because a person goes out and has sex and doesn't want a child, that shouldn't mean that the child shouldn't have an opportunity to develop into a person.

Oh, I assure you no children will be involved.

Even the most liberal definition of "child" only extends to fetuses and I'd abort well before the end of the first trimester. (remember ladies: the earlier the safer!)

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

you unknowingly forced it to violate your body.

It was from your actions that it came to be inside your body and dependant on you. It had no say or choice in the matter.

[Individuality-ness]

you unknowingly forced it to violate your body.

Do you listen to yourself? Do you know how that sounds?

Reminds me of rape apologists.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Nah, it's more like an eviction.


Do you make this argument about rapists too? "He didn't violate your body on purpose, you unknowingly forced him to violate your body by wearing a short skirt."

That analogy has nothing to do with what I was saying. Try again.

No that analogy is very apt. You should seriously think about the line of thinking you take regarding women's rights.

[Vazdania]

I'm not telling you what to do with your body, but because a person goes out and has sex and doesn't want a child, that shouldn't mean that the child shouldn't have an opportunity to develop into a person.

Oh, I assure you no children will be involved.

Even the most liberal definition of "child" only extends to fetuses and I'd abort well before the end of the first trimester. (remember ladies: the earlier the safer!)

at conception, that cell is a human. If you prevent those gametes from forming a complete diploid cell then go ahead.

[Asuiop]

The doctor. What does this have to do with abortion?

And of course the doctors are very accurate with their ability to determine when a patient is likely to die.
abortion? Who said anything about abortion? You said it was all ethics, didn't you?

You are all obsessed with legality and court cases and dictionary definitions that you completely ignore the most important part! The Ethics!

1. I asked about abortion because we are on a thread about abortion
2. They more or less are
3. I am okay with it because it is their choice. It may not be the right choice, but it is their choice.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

you unknowingly forced it to violate your body.

Do you listen to yourself? Do you know how that sounds?

Reminds me of rape apologists.

Sadly, it does. So much so. And usually from immature males.

[Dakini]

Nah, it's more like an eviction.


Do you make this argument about rapists too? "He didn't violate your body on purpose, you unknowingly forced him to violate your body by wearing a short skirt."

That analogy has nothing to do with what I was saying. Try again.

"The bear didn't want to maul you, you unknowingly put yourself between her and her cub so you forced her to maul you."

edit: Also, yeah, that was pretty rapey before I even made the direct comparison (that's why I made the direct comparison, because I've heard that line before).

[Individuality-ness]

Nah, it's more like an eviction.

Do you make this argument about rapists too? "He didn't violate your body on purpose, you unknowingly forced him to violate your body by wearing a short skirt."

That analogy has nothing to do with what I was saying. Try again.

Dude, this is EXACTLY how rape apologists think. This is victim blaming. Don't lie about it.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

And of course the doctors are very accurate with their ability to determine when a patient is likely to die.
abortion? Who said anything about abortion? You said it was all ethics, didn't you?

1. I asked about abortion because we are on a thread about abortion
2. They more or less are
3. I am okay with it because it is their choice. It may not be the right choice, but it is their choice.

No you clearly said ethics. Read your own post.

You are all obsessed with legality and court cases and dictionary definitions that you completely ignore the most important part! The Ethics!

So back to euthanasia, since you like can of worms. Doctors are very accurate in determining when a patient might die, am I right?

[Dakini]

Oh, I assure you no children will be involved.

Even the most liberal definition of "child" only extends to fetuses and I'd abort well before the end of the first trimester. (remember ladies: the earlier the safer!)

at conception, that cell is a human. If you prevent those gametes from forming a complete diploid cell then go ahead.

You know that more than half of all fertilized ova spontaneously abort, right?

Half of them don't even implant and more of them result in a miscarriage before a woman even knows she was pregnant. I'd only be getting an abortion slightly later than that so really, it's no biggie as far as development goes.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Oh, I assure you no children will be involved.

Even the most liberal definition of "child" only extends to fetuses and I'd abort well before the end of the first trimester. (remember ladies: the earlier the safer!)

at conception, that cell is a human. If you prevent those gametes from forming a complete diploid cell then go ahead.

If your intent to do so and use of contraceptives is 100% effective, yes, I'd accept that argument. But often contraceptives are not 100% effective, and often women are not given a choice of contraceptive. That's the reality no matter what you wish. Hence we need to allow women access to abortion services.

[Auralia]

And I've explained why I believe Supreme Court cases are irrelevant to this discussion, as this is a moral debate, not a legal one. You didn't really address this point.

And now you're lying.

Considering "person" is a legal term, you are quite honestly pissing at the wind.

Laws, including the legal definition of "person", are rooted in reason, empirical evidence, and ethics. So please give me a reason why not all human beings should receive the fundamental human right (i.e. right to life) associated with human personhood.

By the way, you're really quite rude and disrespectful. It's common courtesy to refrain from calling fellow posters liars (which implies that they are approaching this debate in bad faith and actually intend to deceive), yet you do so regularly.

[Individuality-ness]

That analogy has nothing to do with what I was saying. Try again.

"The bear didn't want to maul you, you unknowingly put yourself between her and her cub so you forced her to maul you."

"The troll didn't want to troll you, you unknowingly put your picture up so that said troll was forced to badly Photoshop it to make it look like you were eating cum and spam it all over the forums to harass you."

[Vazdania]

at conception, that cell is a human. If you prevent those gametes from forming a complete diploid cell then go ahead.

If your intent to do so and use of contraceptives is 100% effective, yes, I'd accept that argument. But often contraceptives are not 100% effective, and often women are not given a choice of contraceptive.

well then they become pregnant....then they should go along with the pregnancy until the child is birthed.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

By the way, you're really quite rude and disrespectful. It's common courtesy to refrain from calling fellow posters liars (which implies that they are approaching this debate in bad faith and actually intend to deceive), yet you do so regularly.

Fuck off. GTFO

[Individuality-ness]

you unknowingly forced it to violate your body.

Reminds me of rape apologists.

Sadly, it does. So much so. And usually from immature males.

Is it any surprise, really?

[Tlaceceyaya]

If your intent to do so and use of contraceptives is 100% effective, yes, I'd accept that argument. But often contraceptives are not 100% effective, and often women are not given a choice of contraceptive.

well then they become pregnant....then they should go along with the pregnancy until the child is birthed.

Why?
Because oh no clump of cells being destroyed?