So, Abortion.

[Mavorpen]

This is a nonsensical question. Becoming a person doesn't preclude gaining rights, gaining rights precludes becoming a person. Being a person depends upon having rights.

OK, then, let's examine another question: do you believe that human beings have a right to life? If so, doesn't abortion violate this right?

No. What the fuck is with this 20 Questions shit?

[Asuiop]

Sorry messing up with the Amendments today
And I have already debated with you on this, I'm not going back to that

Too bad, legally they are not persons under the law, as per Roe v. Wade.

Not re-debating this...

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

This is a nonsensical question. Becoming a person doesn't preclude gaining rights, gaining rights precludes becoming a person. Being a person depends upon having rights.

OK, then, let's examine another question: do you believe that human beings have a right to life? If so, doesn't abortion violate this right?

Again. fetus have never been given legal personhood. Ever.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

It is a human being, and killing a living human being is wrong, assuming they aren't coming at you with a knife.

fetus is not a human being no matter how much you wish they would be.

[Auralia]

OK, then, let's examine another question: do you believe that human beings have a right to life? If so, doesn't abortion violate this right?

No. What the fuck is with this 20 Questions shit?

I'm asking questions because I'm trying to understand how you can reconcile abortion with the fact that fetuses are human beings.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

No. What the fuck is with this 20 Questions shit?

I'm asking questions because I'm trying to understand how you can reconcile abortion with the fact that fetuses are human beings.

We reconcile it by knowing that fetus is not a human being.

[Mavorpen]

No. What the fuck is with this 20 Questions shit?

I'm asking questions because I'm trying to understand how you can reconcile abortion with the fact that fetuses are human beings.

Why? Why do this when you can simply read what I've posted in this thread previously?

[Asuiop]

It is a human being, and killing a living human being is wrong, assuming they aren't coming at you with a knife.

fetus is not a human being no matter how much you wish they would be.

Yes, it is. Lets just drop all this legal crap and get right down to it. The fetus is simply an underdeveloped human which is currently developing.

[Auralia]

I'm asking questions because I'm trying to understand how you can reconcile abortion with the fact that fetuses are human beings.

We reconcile it by knowing that fetus is not a human being.

Mavorpen has stated that fetuses are human beings. We both agree on that point, so I'm making use of it in this debate.

[Auralia]

I'm asking questions because I'm trying to understand how you can reconcile abortion with the fact that fetuses are human beings.

Why? Why do this when you can simply read what I've posted in this thread previously?

Because I don't have the time nor the will to trawl through a 70+ page thread looking for your comments. Why not quote some of what you've already said, to make it easier on me?

[Mavorpen]

Why? Why do this when you can simply read what I've posted in this thread previously?

Because I don't have the time nor the will to trawl through a 70+ page thread looking for your comments. Why not quote some of what you've already said, to make it easier on me?

Are you kidding? There's a search bar right there at the top of the page.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

fetus is not a human being no matter how much you wish they would be.

Yes, it is. Lets just drop all this legal crap and get right down to it. The fetus is simply an underdeveloped human which is currently developing.

How is your desire to just outright claim that fetus is a human any more special than my desire to stick to the law of the land and not imbue it with human rights?

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

Why? Why do this when you can simply read what I've posted in this thread previously?

Because I don't have the time nor the will to trawl through a 70+ page thread looking for your comments. Why not quote some of what you've already said, to make it easier on me?

Your laziness is not my problem.

[Auralia]

Because I don't have the time nor the will to trawl through a 70+ page thread looking for your comments. Why not quote some of what you've already said, to make it easier on me?

Are you kidding? There's a search bar right there at the top of the page.

Look, it's not my job to hunt down your arguments in the 200+ search results I get when I search for your nation's name (which, by the way, dd not necessarily include your original posts, only posts in which your name is mentioned).

[Dakini]

So? Consenting people are aware that a pregnancy may result from sex and that they may have to seek an abortion as much as this is an uncomfortable procedure with unpleasant effects (but still significantly better than carrying a pregnancy to term).

why would you seek an abortion in the first place?

Me personally? If I got pregnant right now there would definitely be some issues. I'm trying to take up a job on a fixed contract while my partner finishes his PhD (I'm finishing mine soon) in a country where I don't speak the language and would not be able to yell "get that fucking scalpel away from me" so I don't think I'd want to give birth there. Also, the contract would not allow for maternity leave so if I carried to term and took any time off at all, I'd have to repay any money I'd earned up to that point and uh... not have a job after that. So my partner, our hypothetical offspring and I would have to eke out an existence on his stipend as a lab assistant (which isn't much) in a country where we have no family or support network (and indeed, family and support network would be on the other side of the planet). Oh, that is if they let me stay in the country. I could apply for a spousal visa, but you know. I'd probably have to leave and come back and they could of course deny my application. It's not really a good time for babies here (which is, of course, why we're vigilant about contraception, but then so are most of the women who go in to get abortions in the first place).

If you meant in general, women have abortions for lots of reasons. People take surveys, but they usually boil it down to few word answers.

[Vazdania]

Yes, it is. Lets just drop all this legal crap and get right down to it. The fetus is simply an underdeveloped human which is currently developing.

How is your desire to just outright claim that fetus is a human any more special than my desire to stick to the law of the land and not imbue it with human rights?

Fetuses are in fact human though.

[Vazdania]

why would you seek an abortion in the first place?

Me personally? If I got pregnant right now there would definitely be some issues. I'm trying to take up a job on a fixed contract while my partner finishes his PhD (I'm finishing mine soon) in a country where I don't speak the language and would not be able to yell "get that fucking scalpel away from me" so I don't think I'd want to give birth there. Also, the contract would not allow for maternity leave so if I carried to term and took any time off at all, I'd have to repay any money I'd earned up to that point and uh... not have a job after that. So my partner, our hypothetical offspring and I would have to eke out an existence on his stipend as a lab assistant (which isn't much) in a country where we have no family or support network (and indeed, family and support network would be on the other side of the planet). Oh, that is if they let me stay in the country. I could apply for a spousal visa, but you know. I'd probably have to leave and come back and they could of course deny my application. It's not really a good time for babies here (which is, of course, why we're vigilant about contraception, but then so are most of the women who go in to get abortions in the first place).

If you meant in general, women have abortions for lots of reasons. People take surveys, but they usually boil it down to few word answers.

so don't have sex in the first place.

[Imota]

Always legal, always available, always safe, always regulated, and always rare.

[Asuiop]

Yes, it is. Lets just drop all this legal crap and get right down to it. The fetus is simply an underdeveloped human which is currently developing.

How is your desire to just outright claim that fetus is a human any more special than my desire to stick to the law of the land and not imbue it with human rights?

You are all obsessed with legality and court cases and dictionary definitions that you completely ignore the most important part! The Ethics!

[Dakini]

How is your desire to just outright claim that fetus is a human any more special than my desire to stick to the law of the land and not imbue it with human rights?

Fetuses are in fact human though.

Why does any human get to use another human's body without the second human's consent?

[Auralia]

Because I don't have the time nor the will to trawl through a 70+ page thread looking for your comments. Why not quote some of what you've already said, to make it easier on me?

Your laziness is not my problem.

I'm not talking to you. I have zero interest in debating with you, given your quasi-personal attack. Please stop talking to me.

[Mavorpen]

Are you kidding? There's a search bar right there at the top of the page.

Look, it's not my job to hunt down your arguments in the 200+ search results I get when I search for your nation's name (which, by the way, dd not necessarily include your original posts, only posts in which your name is mentioned).

And it's not my job to explain everything I've already explained.

[Grad Duchy of Luxembourg]

How is your desire to just outright claim that fetus is a human any more special than my desire to stick to the law of the land and not imbue it with human rights?

Fetuses are in fact human though.

No legally they are not a person.

[Dakini]

Me personally? If I got pregnant right now there would definitely be some issues. I'm trying to take up a job on a fixed contract while my partner finishes his PhD (I'm finishing mine soon) in a country where I don't speak the language and would not be able to yell "get that fucking scalpel away from me" so I don't think I'd want to give birth there. Also, the contract would not allow for maternity leave so if I carried to term and took any time off at all, I'd have to repay any money I'd earned up to that point and uh... not have a job after that. So my partner, our hypothetical offspring and I would have to eke out an existence on his stipend as a lab assistant (which isn't much) in a country where we have no family or support network (and indeed, family and support network would be on the other side of the planet). Oh, that is if they let me stay in the country. I could apply for a spousal visa, but you know. I'd probably have to leave and come back and they could of course deny my application. It's not really a good time for babies here (which is, of course, why we're vigilant about contraception, but then so are most of the women who go in to get abortions in the first place).

If you meant in general, women have abortions for lots of reasons. People take surveys, but they usually boil it down to few word answers.

so don't have sex in the first place.

No.

[Asuiop]

Fetuses are in fact human though.

Why does any human get to use another human's body without the second human's consent?

Because the first human effectively forced the second human to develop within and completely dependant to the first human.