Gay recruit complains about being called a fag in USMC

[Greenvul]

The drill sergeant should be discharged for using that slur on anyone. It's no different from using the n- or r- slurs.

What is an "r" slur?

[Ifreann]

ACtually, did the drill sergeant even know he was gay? From what I've heard, they use the term pretty liberally, regardless of orientation.

He shouldn't be calling any of the recruits fags.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

The drill sergeant should be discharged for using that slur on anyone. It's no different from using the n- or r- slurs.

What is an "r" slur?

R... r... recumbent? Restive? Ridiculous?

[The Ben Boys]

Oh wow. One Drill Instructor uses the word "Fag" - Instututionalised Sexual discrimination.

... You do realize, up until a few months ago, institutionalized discrimination against homosexuals was an official policy of the military?

Really? Were those their exact words "up until a few months ago"?

This is a non-scientific viewer question.

[Ifreann]

The drill sergeant should be discharged for using that slur on anyone. It's no different from using the n- or r- slurs.

What is an "r" slur?

"Retard".

[Prussia-Steinbach]

What is an "r" slur?

"Retard".

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

EDIT: Wait, "retard" is equal to "nigger" and "fag" now?

[Vazdania]

that awkward moment when I agree with Knightkill.

I've changed my mind.

good, I thought that a great seal to the apocalypse had been opened.

[Norstal]

You can abuse people without institutionalizing sexual-orientation based discrimination.

Oh wow. One Drill Instructor uses the word "Fag" - Instututionalised Sexual discrimination.

I mean, here's the thing. Drill sergeants supposedly can use any insult they want, ranging from insulting your mother, your political beliefs, your religion, or your sex. Yet somehow, we just accept that they can use homophobic slurs?

Why? Since this is a politically oriented forum, someone's gonna get pissed if they get called a Libertard or a cuntservative. It's the same as being called fag. Yet everyone gives the word fag an exception.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

The drill sergeant should be discharged for using that slur on anyone. It's no different from using the n- or r- slurs.

What is an "r" slur?

Russian.

[The Ben Boys]

ACtually, did the drill sergeant even know he was gay? From what I've heard, they use the term pretty liberally, regardless of orientation.

He should be calling any of the recruits fags.

It wouldn't be as offensive now, would it? He couldn't call me a "damn wetback" and have the same affect as it would be on someone who's a Mexican (me being white).

[Ovisterra]

So you think Marines should be taught to discriminate based on skin colour and sexual orientation.

Great.

They aren't "discriminating." They didn't kick him out of Basic. If they give him extra shit, maybe he'll be tougher than all the rest of his group, and turn out to be a better Marine, and show the rest of those homophobes, huh?

They used a homophobic slur. They basically said "being gay is bad".

Why the fuck would they do that?

Equality isn't necessarily good. I mean, everyone being called a fag is better than only some people being called fags but they're both a billion times worse than no one being called a fag.

We're. Talking. About. The. Marine. Corps.

I. Know.

I. Can. Read.

Why. Are. You. Typing. Like. This.?

They. Are. Not. Supposed. To. Be. Nice.

There are options other than "nice" and "homophobic".

How does homophobia make people tough?

It mentally toughens them, because afterward they'll be able to take as much as anyone can throw at them.

Why not use nice, non-discriminatory, nevertheless hurtful insults?

While that's good (and slightly surprising), it doesn't make it impossible for you to be homophobic. You're like those people who say "I can't be racist, I have a black friend!".

For the record, I have know one homosexual, and don't like her at all. Still don't care if she marries a woman.

Right. My girlfriend is bi. Why are we talking about irrelevant things?

Sure they can, but implying (or saying outright) that one sex is inherently tougher than the other or that being tough is purely a trait of one sex is, in fact, super-sexist and not very nice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/sport ... .html?_r=0

"...for a variety of intrinsic biological reasons, the best women can never run as fast as the best men, exercise researchers say."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans

"...most males are taller and stronger than females..."

http://www.blisstree.com/2007/02/22/men ... n-and-men/

"Men are 10-15% larger than women. And 30% physically stronger, especially on the upper body."

And? Men are statistically more likely to be strong or large, but that means jack shit. Using "man" as a synonym for "toughen" is still sexist.

I speak as a male with a BMI of like 17 who can barely lift his schoolbag.

[Agritum]

Sorry to announce it to you, but...

Still diden`t read the rest of my post?


Hes in the MARINES, their deployed or is going to be deployed to certain nations were homosexuals are flogged or stoned, to cultures where their prosecuted at a daily basis.

Point stil stands tbh.

Wouldn't avoiding to use homophobic terms help remind the recruits that homosexuals are fundamentally treated better in the USA than in those other countries, and that they are fighting to protect a country who atleast permits them to be openly gay without major repercussions?

[Copenhagen Metropolis]

The drill sergeant should be discharged for using that slur on anyone. It's no different from using the n- or r- slurs.

What is an "r" slur?

It'd be much easier if he just wrote the fucking words out...

[Norstal]

"Retard".

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

EDIT: Wait, "retard" is equal to "nigger" and "fag" now?

Why shouldn't it be?

[Norstal]

He should be calling any of the recruits fags.

It wouldn't be as offensive now, would it? He couldn't call me a "damn wetback" and have the same affect as it would be on someone who's a Mexican (me being white).

...We need to be as offensive as possible to discipline recruits?

Holy shit.

[Copenhagen Metropolis]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

EDIT: Wait, "retard" is equal to "nigger" and "fag" now?

Why shouldn't it be?

Alongside any other insult imo.

[Greenvul]

You clearly didn't watch the number of insults gunny pumped out.

you clear didn't notice that it is A) fictional and B) a fictional account of the 1970's

(well aware that the drill sargeant was infact an RL drill sargeant. doesn't undermine the above two points.)

It was also entirely improvised. They told the Gunny to say exactly what he would have said to fresh recruits.

[Helicthon]

If there was a black recruit and he was called a "worthless nigger", would you be OK with that?

Yes. Just as I would be okay with a DI calling a white recruit a "white-ass honky."

Here's what you people apparently don't understand: having your whiteness, heterosexuality, or indeed maleness "slurred on" ISN'T THE FUCKING SAME as having your non-whiteness, non-heterosexuality, or non-maleness slurred on. It isn't a question of replacing the words in the sentence, because the sentence isn't just a series of words in a void.

Language exists in context; part of the global context in American (and therefore USMC) society is that whiteness, maleness and heterosexuality are socio-cultural advantages. It is called privilege. You should learn about it.

Furthermore:

If you can't handle getting called names, get the hell out of the marines. Honestly, next we'll be giving them free cookies.

Ifreann's question still stands. I've read this entire thread and I've yet to see a satisfactory explanation for why being dissatisfied with the state of language as it's used necessarily implies that one "can't handle" that state existing. I'm frequently dissatisfied with existence in general and you don't see me rushing to jump off a bridge.

Wait, "retard" is equal to "nigger" and "fag" now?

At this point I'm not surprised that you think about as highly of the aneurotypical as you do of the non-heterosexual.

[Ovisterra]

... You do realize, up until a few months ago, institutionalized discrimination against homosexuals was an official policy of the military?

Really? Were those their exact words "up until a few months ago"?

This is a non-scientific viewer question.

They threw openly homosexual people out of the military. It's pretty fucking obvious.

EDIT: Oh, this is an argument of dates. Carry on.

[The Rich Port]

... You do realize, up until a few months ago, institutionalized discrimination against homosexuals was an official policy of the military?

Really? Were those their exact words "up until a few months ago"?

This is a non-scientific viewer question.

Oh, right... Couple years ago.

Well, whatever. Dates.

What the fuck do you think "don't ask, don't tell" was?

[Ifreann]

"Retard".

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

EDIT: Wait, "retard" is equal to "nigger" and "fag" now?

Yes.

---

Oh wow. One Drill Instructor uses the word "Fag" - Instututionalised Sexual discrimination.

I mean, here's the thing. Drill sergeants supposedly can use any insult they want, ranging from insulting your mother, your political beliefs, your religion, or your sex. Yet somehow, we just accept that they can use homophobic slurs?

Why? Since this is a politically oriented forum, someone's gonna get pissed if they get called a Libertard or a cuntservative. It's the same as being called fag. Yet everyone gives the word fag an exception.

Don't know where you're getting the idea that no one has a problem to other comparable insults and use of slurs.

---

He should be calling any of the recruits fags.

It wouldn't be as offensive now, would it? He couldn't call me a "damn wetback" and have the same affect as it would be on someone who's a Mexican (me being white).

It wouldn't be as personally insulting. It would still engender the attitude that gays are inferior as soldiers.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

They used a homophobic slur. They basically said "being gay is bad".

Yeah. They say that about every other aspect of their recruits, except thos ewhich they have imposed on them.

There are options other than "nice" and "homophobic".

It is one way to be not nice.

Why not use nice...insults?

1.
2. If you want equality, then they should be able to insult them with "fag" just like other recruits get insulted with... you know, various other words.

And? Men are statistically more likely to be strong or large, but that means jack shit. Using "man" as a synonym for "toughen" is still sexist.

Typically, the stronger you are, hte tougher you are. Stronger = Tougher. Men = Stronger = Men Tougher.

I speak as a male with a BMI of like 17 who can barely lift his schoolbag.

That is... kind of sad. Unless you're taking thirty AP classes plus night school and your schoolbag is literally one hundred pounds.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Here's what you people apparently don't understand: having your whiteness, heterosexuality, or indeed maleness "slurred on" ISN'T THE FUCKING SAME as having your non-whiteness, non-heterosexuality, or non-maleness slurred on.

I don't see why not.

Language exists in context; part of the global context in American (and therefore USMC) society is that whiteness, maleness and heterosexuality are socio-cultural advantages. It is called privilege. You should learn about it.

I do need to learn about it, because never once have I had an advantage because I'm white, male, or heterosexual. In fact, getting sun burned very easily is quite the disadvantage.

At this point I'm not surprised that you think about as highly of the aneurotypical as you do of the non-heterosexual.

My brother is autistic. I am not insulted when people call people who are not mentally retarded retarded.

Also, not having full mental capacity and liking the same sex is different.

[Ovisterra]

They used a homophobic slur. They basically said "being gay is bad".

Yeah. They say that about every other aspect of their recruits, except thos ewhich they have imposed on them.

And if you could name specific instances, I'd probably tell you those were bad too.

There are options other than "nice" and "homophobic".

It is one way to be not nice.

A way that should be stamped out.

Why not use nice...insults?

1.

Cherry picking. Cute.

2. If you want equality, then they should be able to insult them with "fag" just like other recruits get insulted with... you know, various other words.

The only way to be equal would be to use the same bank of insults for everyone.

And? Men are statistically more likely to be strong or large, but that means jack shit. Using "man" as a synonym for "toughen" is still sexist.

Typically, the stronger you are, hte tougher you are. Stronger = Tougher. Men = Stronger = Men Tougher.

Every man isn't stronger than every woman, so no, you're wrong.

And the idea that strength = toughness is bullshit. I've seen tiny guys and girls who can go through hell and not give a shit, as well as massive, strong people who feint at the sight of blood.

I speak as a male with a BMI of like 17 who can barely lift his schoolbag.

That is... kind of sad. Unless you're taking thirty AP classes plus night school and your schoolbag is literally one hundred pounds.

It's exaggeration. I can lift my schoolbag easily. Heck, I do large amounts of hillwalking carrying as much as a third of my weight. I'm still tiny though. 45kg of sass.

[Estovakiva]

Still diden`t read the rest of my post?


Hes in the MARINES, their deployed or is going to be deployed to certain nations were homosexuals are flogged or stoned, to cultures where their prosecuted at a daily basis.

Point stil stands tbh.

Ah so we should treat our men and women just like the nations we are going over to so they can be "Stronger" for it?

....No you're point has fallen over and catches on fire

No, to PREPARE them for just that, said person couldn`t even handle being called a "Fag"

Their fighting a war agains`t people who even targets 15 year olds (referance to Pakistani blogger girl)

But yeah it seems people like you would rather send people of to war without being propperly prepared to what they will or shall meet?

I`d love to see you get a better counter-argument.

help remind the recruits that homosexuals are fundamentally treated better in the USA than in those other countries, and that they are fighting to protect a country who atleast permits them to be openly gay without major repercussions?

That would be great, but they should be also teached about how said cultures treats their gays and they will be looked down upon even if their to help them, even by their local allies same with woman soldiers.

Sadly not every country as the same rights for people of the diffrent gender, nor sexuality.