Gay recruit complains about being called a fag in USMC

[Agymnum]

It is a flaw when your enlisting to go to some sodding desert full of explosions, bullets, and very angry people, but you are rather insulted by a simple verbal comment within training camp. What are you going to do when they yell at you? What are you going to do when they come for your skull? Life isn't always a nice place, and war doesn't always have a complain office.

In what way, exactly, is calling a gay soldier 'fag' going to make any of that better? What is the one to one relationship between the a leader in your organization deriding you and everyone else of your particular orientation and being able to have someone 'come for your skull'?

Where are the steps between, "He's coming for our skulls!" and "It's alright, in basic training my drill instructor used a slur regarding my sexuality, I got this handled!"

If we can just illustrate how fucking vital it is that drill instructors insult the sexuality of the recruits, make them 'others' to their fellow soldiers, well hell. But I'm just not seeing it.

Let me spell out the mathematical proof for you.

Fag is spelled F-A-G.

F = fucking being shot at
A = assholes blowing up my tank
G = God's abandoned us.

Thus fag combines F + A + G to create the perfect training mechanism for future soldiers. They get shot at, have their tanks blow up, and basically have no hope for survival at all.

QED.

[Mizrad]

It is a flaw when your enlisting to go to some sodding desert full of explosions, bullets, and very angry people, but you are rather insulted by a simple verbal comment within training camp. What are you going to do when they yell at you? What are you going to do when they come for your skull? Life isn't always a nice place, and war doesn't always have a complain office.

In what way, exactly, is calling a gay soldier 'fag' going to make any of that better? What is the one to one relationship between the a leader in your organization deriding you and everyone else of your particular orientation and being able to have someone 'come for your skull'?

Where are the steps between, "He's coming for our skulls!" and "It's alright, in basic training my drill instructor used a slur regarding my sexuality, I got this handled!"

If we can just illustrate how fucking vital it is that drill instructors insult the sexuality of the recruits, make them 'others' to their fellow soldiers, well hell. But I'm just not seeing it.

You want to know the steps between? Hazing to the point where you want to give up until you're brought back up as a Marine not some crying little bitch. Ever heard of the pen game? How about what they do in the "Pit".

[Uelvan]

No, but it break them down, which is the purpose of bootcamp. You break them down and build them back up.

Break them down for proper, justifiable reasons: laziness, stupidity, arrogance, naivety.

Breaking them down based on race, gender, or sexuality is just fucking lazy, fucking stupid, and fucking arrogant. How ironic.

I don't think you understand what you're talking about. One of the points of bootcamp is to get out of that civilian ritzy bullshit life. Being offended over words, period, is one thing that should be broken out of you. Especially personal insults.

[Northern Dominus]

I remember the first thing we were called as a Division were 'Fucking Civilians'. Yeah, that seemed to be the worst possible label. As they made it sound like a civilian was a worthless, untrained failure who was unfit to think for himself.

I remember how proud I was at 'graduating' to a 'Fucking Recruit' hell my entire Division thought it was a promotion.

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

In what way, exactly, is calling a gay soldier 'fag' going to make any of that better? What is the one to one relationship between the a leader in your organization deriding you and everyone else of your particular orientation and being able to have someone 'come for your skull'?

Where are the steps between, "He's coming for our skulls!" and "It's alright, in basic training my drill instructor used a slur regarding my sexuality, I got this handled!"

If we can just illustrate how fucking vital it is that drill instructors insult the sexuality of the recruits, make them 'others' to their fellow soldiers, well hell. But I'm just not seeing it.

You want to know the steps between? Hazing to the point where you want to give up until you're brought back up as a Marine not some crying little bitch. Ever heard of the pen game? How about what they do in the "Pit".

And there is a key difference between the "pen game" and the put vs using personal divisive slurs like "fag" or "nigger". Want to know what that is?

[The Rich Port]

Or how about, "You shit-breathed anus fume, you couldn't count coconuts if one of them spread your brains out all over Gilligan's Island"?

I like that!

Here another one

"You limp dick piece of fuck, you make me puke! You got ten seconds to drop down and give me 20 or I swear to our lord and savior I will put my boot so far up your ass you will be tasting the shit on my boot for weeks!!!"

Eh, I find threats of physical harm a little pointless if you can't back them up, which, while I'm certain they can off the record, it could be bad for ya if you get caught, paperwork and all.

I find addressing things the recruit might already be good at the best: calling the smart ones stupid, the physically fit ones fatties. That might actually challenge them to actually be smarter or more physically fit... Or make them perfectionist freaks, in which case psych discharge.

For example: "You cross-eyed, Jersey Shore, gonorrhea-spreading shitfucker, we have to wipe down the obstacle course every time you're done with it because you're so fucking sweaty everybody else in the camp gets fucking food poisoning from all the E-Coli you leave around"

[Democratic Koyro]

I remember the first thing we were called as a Division were 'Fucking Civilians'. Yeah, that seemed to be the worst possible label. As they made it sound like a civilian was a worthless, untrained failure who was unfit to think for himself.

I remember how proud I was at 'graduating' to a 'Fucking Recruit' hell my entire Division thought it was a promotion.

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

Forrest Gump was.

[Agymnum]

And there is a key difference between the "pen game" and the put vs using personal divisive slurs like "fag" or "nigger". Want to know what that is?

Oh, oh, pick me!

Is it because the pen game and pit actually train you to overcome the pains of military life, and divisive slurs just piss people off?

Do I get internet cookie?

[The Rebel Alliances]

I remember the first thing we were called as a Division were 'Fucking Civilians'. Yeah, that seemed to be the worst possible label. As they made it sound like a civilian was a worthless, untrained failure who was unfit to think for himself.

I remember how proud I was at 'graduating' to a 'Fucking Recruit' hell my entire Division thought it was a promotion.

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

You want to know the steps between? Hazing to the point where you want to give up until you're brought back up as a Marine not some crying little bitch. Ever heard of the pen game? How about what they do in the "Pit".

And there is a key difference between the "pen game" and the put vs using personal divisive slurs like "fag" or "nigger". Want to know what that is?

Competent? Hell no. In boot if your wrong your wrong, and if your right you are still wrong.

[Agymnum]

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

Forrest Gump was.

Achievements in ignorance. *nods*

[Mizrad]

I remember the first thing we were called as a Division were 'Fucking Civilians'. Yeah, that seemed to be the worst possible label. As they made it sound like a civilian was a worthless, untrained failure who was unfit to think for himself.

I remember how proud I was at 'graduating' to a 'Fucking Recruit' hell my entire Division thought it was a promotion.

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

You want to know the steps between? Hazing to the point where you want to give up until you're brought back up as a Marine not some crying little bitch. Ever heard of the pen game? How about what they do in the "Pit".

And there is a key difference between the "pen game" and the put vs using personal divisive slurs like "fag" or "nigger". Want to know what that is?

One's used in public when the DI's can't actually hurt you unless you find verbal insults painful. The other is used when nobody's looking to make you feel tortured and broken down until they can build you back up because of the fact you've been broken just enough to do so.

[Cannot think of a name]

In what way, exactly, is calling a gay soldier 'fag' going to make any of that better? What is the one to one relationship between the a leader in your organization deriding you and everyone else of your particular orientation and being able to have someone 'come for your skull'?

Where are the steps between, "He's coming for our skulls!" and "It's alright, in basic training my drill instructor used a slur regarding my sexuality, I got this handled!"

If we can just illustrate how fucking vital it is that drill instructors insult the sexuality of the recruits, make them 'others' to their fellow soldiers, well hell. But I'm just not seeing it.

You want to know the steps between? Hazing to the point where you want to give up until you're brought back up as a Marine not some crying little bitch.

And somehow we can't do that without separating out this man's sexuality or denigrating it, making him an 'other' to the men and women he will then rely on for survival? I mean, the only tool in their shed is us a slur against a sexuality? And somehow, you think that being okay with your own organization calling you a 'fag' is going to suddenly turn you into a super soldier? Is this what happened at Stonewall? No one knew if you kept calling them 'fags' they'd turn into super soldiers?

Ever heard of the pen game? How about what they do in the "Pit".

Yes yes, we've all seen the masturbation of how 'tough' basic training is. I don't see how these activities justify calling people 'fags'.

[Immoren]

And then calling whole platoon/squad into form and ordering them to stand in lake, some where between knee and ankle deep, in form and in attention for five minutes.

Oh no, the USCG has the market cornered on water-based punishment. Basic involves going out on little boats in rough seas, and inevitably this happens:

"If any one of you weak-legged pansies pukes during this cruise we're gonna do the whole thing over again!"

*BLAAAAARRRRRGGG*... within sight of shore.

"Alright, we're going around again!"

Sadly in Finland running recruits/conscripts into water as punishment is nowadays forbidden, because it is considered bullying/hazing/mobbing/whatev. Not that clever NCOs and officers won't find ways around it.

[Insane Kidney Mentality]

It is a flaw when your enlisting to go to some sodding desert full of explosions, bullets, and very angry people, but you are rather insulted by a simple verbal comment within training camp. What are you going to do when they yell at you? What are you going to do when they come for your skull? Life isn't always a nice place, and war doesn't always have a complain office.

In what way, exactly, is calling a gay soldier 'fag' going to make any of that better? What is the one to one relationship between the a leader in your organization deriding you and everyone else of your particular orientation and being able to have someone 'come for your skull'?

Where are the steps between, "He's coming for our skulls!" and "It's alright, in basic training my drill instructor used a slur regarding my sexuality, I got this handled!"

If we can just illustrate how fucking vital it is that drill instructors insult the sexuality of the recruits, make them 'others' to their fellow soldiers, well hell. But I'm just not seeing it.

Your fellow soldiers may joke about it a little, or even give you a insulting nudge now and then, but you'd be surprised how overwhelming volumes of bullets and explosives unite people.

In any case, basic training is training you to deal with the stresses of warfare and to abandon that little sense of individuality that makes you so special. Bullets do not discriminate, and hell, one small insult is not going to bring about the end of the world. If you are going to become unnerved after repetitive use of an insult, then what are you going to become when enemy combatants shoot at you or within your general direction? Certainly significantly more unnerved than that of an insult, within all probability.

Granted, it is of curiousity of how such an individual would react if he were to go on 4Chan, where insults such as 'faggot' or 'nigger' have become redefined as a term of common address.

[Agymnum]

Granted, it is of curiousity of how such an individual would react if he were to go on 4Chan, where insults such as 'faggot' or 'nigger' have become redefined as a term of common address.

I remember the first time I was ever called a "good fucking writefag with fappable shit" on 4Chan. Highest praise I've ever received.

[Mizrad]

You want to know the steps between? Hazing to the point where you want to give up until you're brought back up as a Marine not some crying little bitch.

And somehow we can't do that without separating out this man's sexuality or denigrating it, making him an 'other' to the men and women he will then rely on for survival? I mean, the only tool in their shed is us a slur against a sexuality? And somehow, you think that being okay with your own organization calling you a 'fag' is going to suddenly turn you into a super soldier? Is this what happened at Stonewall? No one knew if you kept calling them 'fags' they'd turn into super soldiers?

Ever heard of the pen game? How about what they do in the "Pit".

Yes yes, we've all seen the masturbation of how 'tough' basic training is. I don't see how these activities justify calling people 'fags'.

Never said they were rightfully used, words are words and they have nothing to do with me. I've also agreed on multiple accounts it's wrong and that there's millions of other insults which they DO use. I'm talking about what DOES turn them into something better, words don't do shit. The only thing that'd motivate me is at the end when they finally call me a Marine. So all in all, calling somebody a fag can be removed from basic, same thing with other racial slurs but they don't always make a difference and that's why.

[Northern Dominus]

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

Forrest Gump was.

Yeah well.... dammit.

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

And there is a key difference between the "pen game" and the put vs using personal divisive slurs like "fag" or "nigger". Want to know what that is?

Competent? Hell no. In boot if your wrong your wrong, and if your right you are still wrong.

On a really good day you're just competent enough to "not fuck things up royally for everyone else"... paraphrasing of course.

And when you finally were called competent...

No wait, sorry, I forgot. Nobody is competent at boot. Nobody.

And there is a key difference between the "pen game" and the put vs using personal divisive slurs like "fag" or "nigger". Want to know what that is?

One's used in public when the DI's can't actually hurt you unless you find verbal insults painful. The other is used when nobody's looking to make you feel tortured and broken down until they can build you back up because of the fact you've been broken just enough to do so.

....no.
See the Pit and the Pen game are shared relatable suffering, just like general insults and vulgarity. Everyone suffers equally and relatably and is broken down in the same fashion, leading to a fostered sense of camradere because everyone is going through the same thing.

The second a slur such as the ones described above are used, that carries a lot of divisive weight behind it. The second somebody is labeled a "fag" or a "nigger", then they're instantly "the other" in a fashion and seperate from the group. That in turn breaks unit cohesion down with some agreeing with the sentiment and some rallying around the recipient. Unit efficiency and performance falters and standards aren't met, all because one DI couldn't think laterally and avoid those words while still using the rich world of general vulgarity and insults, thereby defeating the entire point of boot camp.

[Northern Dantika]

What's next, racial slurs? Perhaps they could call recruits with particularly large noses "Dirty Jews".

They do, I can tell you from my boot camp experience that anything was fair play, and anywhere in the Marine Corps this kinda thing happens. I've seen white guys call black guys niggers and it was fine. While in boot they ask if anyone is gaywhen they yell something like fag, then if anyone says yes they will ask if it offends them. This part is a trap because if they say yes then the recruit is wanting special treatment at which point they are a target because they can't adapt. Because this particular gay joined the Marines he really should have known this was going to happen, it happens to everybody. Also yes Jews are cheep, Muslims are terrorists (though the term terrorist is also used for people who just plain suck), black guys can't swim and Mexicans like tacos

[Mizrad]

Forrest Gump was.

Yeah well.... dammit.

Competent? Hell no. In boot if your wrong your wrong, and if your right you are still wrong.

On a really good day you're just competent enough to "not fuck things up royally for everyone else"... paraphrasing of course.

One's used in public when the DI's can't actually hurt you unless you find verbal insults painful. The other is used when nobody's looking to make you feel tortured and broken down until they can build you back up because of the fact you've been broken just enough to do so.

....no.
See the Pit and the Pen game are shared relatable suffering, just like general insults and vulgarity. Everyone suffers equally and relatably and is broken down in the same fashion, leading to a fostered sense of camradere because everyone is going through the same thing.

The second a slur such as the ones described above are used, that carries a lot of divisive weight behind it. The second somebody is labeled a "fag" or a "nigger", then they're instantly "the other" in a fashion and seperate from the group. That in turn breaks unit cohesion down with some agreeing with the sentiment and some rallying around the recipient. Unit efficiency and performance falters and standards aren't met, all because one DI couldn't think laterally and avoid those words while still using the rich world of general vulgarity and insults, thereby defeating the entire point of boot camp.

Read the last post I made please.

[The Rich Port]

I'm confused as to how calling a recruit a fag makes them try being faster at, say, re-assembling their rifle after taking it apart, or running faster.

Does having sex with women... Make you better at re-assembling a rifle?

[Agymnum]

I'm confused as to how calling a recruit a fag makes them try being faster at, say, re-assembling their rifle after taking it apart, or running faster.

Does having sex with women... Make you better at re-assembling a rifle?

Makes you better at aiming your rifle at the proper hole, I think.

Or something. I dunno.

[Northern Dominus]

Yeah well.... dammit.

On a really good day you're just competent enough to "not fuck things up royally for everyone else"... paraphrasing of course.

....no.
See the Pit and the Pen game are shared relatable suffering, just like general insults and vulgarity. Everyone suffers equally and relatably and is broken down in the same fashion, leading to a fostered sense of camradere because everyone is going through the same thing.

The second a slur such as the ones described above are used, that carries a lot of divisive weight behind it. The second somebody is labeled a "fag" or a "nigger", then they're instantly "the other" in a fashion and seperate from the group. That in turn breaks unit cohesion down with some agreeing with the sentiment and some rallying around the recipient. Unit efficiency and performance falters and standards aren't met, all because one DI couldn't think laterally and avoid those words while still using the rich world of general vulgarity and insults, thereby defeating the entire point of boot camp.

Read the last post I made please.

Oh, gotcha. Misread the post, my mistake.

It's amazing how many people think Full Metal Jacket and the training sections of Jarhead are documentaries and not fiction or embellished, isn't it?

[Cannot think of a name]

In what way, exactly, is calling a gay soldier 'fag' going to make any of that better? What is the one to one relationship between the a leader in your organization deriding you and everyone else of your particular orientation and being able to have someone 'come for your skull'?

Where are the steps between, "He's coming for our skulls!" and "It's alright, in basic training my drill instructor used a slur regarding my sexuality, I got this handled!"

If we can just illustrate how fucking vital it is that drill instructors insult the sexuality of the recruits, make them 'others' to their fellow soldiers, well hell. But I'm just not seeing it.

Your fellow soldiers may joke about it a little, or even give you a insulting nudge now and then, but you'd be surprised how overwhelming volumes of bullets and explosives unite people.

In any case, basic training is training you to deal with the stresses of warfare and to abandon that little sense of individuality that makes you so special. Bullets do not discriminate, and hell, one small insult is not going to bring about the end of the world. If you are going to become unnerved after repetitive use of an insult, then what are you going to become when enemy combatants shoot at you or within your general direction? Certainly significantly more unnerved than that of an insult, within all probability.

That's not the point, really. I just don't see how "Accept that you come from a minority group that is so commonly derided that your kind wasn't even allowed into this organization until last year and it's still totally okay to continue deriding that group as a whole because we've made this tenuous connection between the broad goal of Marine training, this slur, and being shot at."

You seem to think that if I just understood how tough it was to be in combat I'd totally be okay with someone using the slur. Except the problem is I get how hard it is, and that maybe the drill sergeants might have a bigger bag of tricks that in no tangable way will be diminished if he suddenly has to respect that these people are in fact equal to service as their straight compatriots.

Granted, it is of curiousity of how such an individual would react if he were to go on 4Chan, where insults such as 'faggot' or 'nigger' have become redefined as a term of common address.

He doesn't work for 4 Chan.

[The Rich Port]

I'm confused as to how calling a recruit a fag makes them try being faster at, say, re-assembling their rifle after taking it apart, or running faster.

Does having sex with women... Make you better at re-assembling a rifle?

Makes you better at aiming your rifle at the proper hole, I think.

Or something. I dunno.

Maybe... Re-assembling your penis after it gets blown off?

But I think that's more the medic's job than anybody else's.

[Insane Kidney Mentality]

I'm confused as to how calling a recruit a fag makes them try being faster at, say, re-assembling their rifle after taking it apart, or running faster.

Does having sex with women... Make you better at re-assembling a rifle?

It's a long, hard, piece of machinery that discharges large projectives forged of lead, brass, and death.

Heterosexuals wouldn't think of any innuendos. *Nods*

[The Sector Union]

I won't feel sorry for a gay being called a fag in the MARINES? If you're signing up to risk your life for a nation, how is a simple word stopping you?