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To what extent should LGBT people have rights?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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To what extent should LGBT people have rights?

Same-sex marriage should be legal.
382
79%
Same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal but same-sex civil unions should be allowed that entail most of the same rights and responsibilities as marriage.
39
8%
Same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal but same-sex civil unions that don't entail many of the same rights and responsibilities as marriage should be legal.
10
2%
Neither same-sex marriage or same-sex civil unions should be legal but same-sex sexual relations should be legal.
14
3%
Neither same-sex marriage or same-sex civil unions should be legal and same-sex sexual relations should be illegal.
41
8%
 
Total votes : 486

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65243
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri May 24, 2013 12:14 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Oh the claim was even worse than that, the poster claimed that the people, unlike the German government, do not support recognition. The poster has been living in Alabama.


The people I know, our groups of youth fascists, and there are many of us do not support recognition.


I feel so intimidated.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38094
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby The Rich Port » Fri May 24, 2013 12:14 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Oh the claim was even worse than that, the poster claimed that the people, unlike the German government, do not support recognition. The poster has been living in Alabama.


The people I know, our groups of youth fascists, and there are many of us do not support recognition.


... Do they not realize World War 2 is over and the fascists lost really badly?!

Someone tell them already, yeesh.

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Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 12:15 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Oh the claim was even worse than that, the poster claimed that the people, unlike the German government, do not support recognition. The poster has been living in Alabama.


The people I know, our groups of youth fascists, and there are many of us do not support recognition.


That is not what you stated earlier. There are indeed groups that do not support recognition, they are in the minority.
Here let me remind you what you said

German Deutsche wrote:Homosexuality is a mental disease and shouldn't be encouraged.

As we look for cures for autism and other mental illnesses, so should we search for cures for the homosexuals.

It's only their right as a human being, to be repaired.

In Germany, people back home understand that this is a mental illness and we treat it as such, the government may have their own opinions but they're irrelevant as the people operate without care or desire for this current government.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Fri May 24, 2013 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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German Deutsche
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 12:16 pm

Northern Dominus wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:
The people I know, our groups of youth fascists, and there are many of us do not support recognition.
Still waiting on that source that states that the population of Germany is not in favor of marriage equality... the one that isn't your anecdotal experience. Maybe a survey, or a study, or something else that is quantifiable...


There is no source from experiencing what it is like.

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Northern Dominus
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14337
Founded: Aug 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dominus » Fri May 24, 2013 12:18 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote:Still waiting on that source that states that the population of Germany is not in favor of marriage equality... the one that isn't your anecdotal experience. Maybe a survey, or a study, or something else that is quantifiable...


There is no source from experiencing what it is like.
So you have nothing. Your assertion is therefore invalid.

Good to know.

Anyway...
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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65243
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri May 24, 2013 12:18 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote:Still waiting on that source that states that the population of Germany is not in favor of marriage equality... the one that isn't your anecdotal experience. Maybe a survey, or a study, or something else that is quantifiable...


There is no source from experiencing what it is like.


What is asserted without evidence can be disregarded without evidence.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38094
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby The Rich Port » Fri May 24, 2013 12:18 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Uiiop wrote:Why not?

Homosexuality is a mental disease and shouldn't be encouraged.

As we look for cures for autism and other mental illnesses, so should we search for cures for the homosexuals.

It's only their right as a human being, to be repaired.

In Germany, people back home understand that this is a mental illness and we treat it as such, the government may have their own opinions but they're irrelevant as the people operate without care or desire for this current government.


FYI, you just suck at psychology.

User avatar
German Deutsche
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 12:18 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:
The people I know, our groups of youth fascists, and there are many of us do not support recognition.


... Do they not realize World War 2 is over and the fascists lost really badly?!

Someone tell them already, yeesh.


Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry

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Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Fri May 24, 2013 12:18 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Immoren wrote:So you'd rather have oligarchy or dictatorship?

Yes.

Something similar to the German Empire of the Late 1800's and early 1900's.


How about no? As someone of Prussian blood I can tell you it isn't a great system. Better than the Nazis, but far from a good system. Even for the rich and powerful it didn't work out that well as there was a thin line you had to walk and if your leader was making stupid decisions militarily you couldn't correct him. Plus the whole succession thing was, and still is, a mess. You know how many pretenders to the throne there are over here? Google it, I know of at least 4 but I'm willing to bet there are more than that. I understand it's summer though so I doubt you'll do that even.

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Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 12:18 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote:Still waiting on that source that states that the population of Germany is not in favor of marriage equality... the one that isn't your anecdotal experience. Maybe a survey, or a study, or something else that is quantifiable...


There is no source from experiencing what it is like.


And as I said your experience, and the experience of most other Germans are not the same. Considering you have apparently been living outside of Germany (if you ever did live there) for a while, I would say your knowledge of German opinion is nil.
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Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 12:20 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
... Do they not realize World War 2 is over and the fascists lost really badly?!

Someone tell them already, yeesh.


Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry


The only answer this deserves is
:rofl:
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
German Deutsche
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 12:20 pm

Ensiferum wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:Yes.

Something similar to the German Empire of the Late 1800's and early 1900's.


How about no? As someone of Prussian blood I can tell you it isn't a great system. Better than the Nazis, but far from a good system. Even for the rich and powerful it didn't work out that well as there was a thin line you had to walk and if your leader was making stupid decisions militarily you couldn't correct him. Plus the whole succession thing was, and still is, a mess. You know how many pretenders to the throne there are over here? Google it, I know of at least 4 but I'm willing to bet there are more than that. I understand it's summer though so I doubt you'll do that even.

I'm not sure what the season of the year has anything to do with the discussion.

Please do not claim to be Prussian and display your abhorrent anti-militaristic views and tolerance of the mentally ill.

User avatar
The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38094
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby The Rich Port » Fri May 24, 2013 12:20 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
... Do they not realize World War 2 is over and the fascists lost really badly?!

Someone tell them already, yeesh.


Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry


... You should.

You're like a pie to the face: a bad, old joke.

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Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Fri May 24, 2013 12:21 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:
There is no source from experiencing what it is like.


And as I said your experience, and the experience of most other Germans are not the same. Considering you have apparently been living outside of Germany (if you ever did live there) for a while, I would say your knowledge of German opinion is nil.


He may be right if he spend time in Bayern or even here in Baden-Württemberg as the CDU and the conservative factions hold quite a bit of power here compared to somewhere like Berlin or Saxony. I would say it depends on where he spent time, but overall I think more would be for rights than against them and at worst it's about 50-50.

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German Deutsche
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 12:22 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:
Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry


... You should.

You're like a pie to the face: a bad, old joke.

I will not rescind my enterprises at the behest of an emotionally unstable liberal.

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65243
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri May 24, 2013 12:22 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
... Do they not realize World War 2 is over and the fascists lost really badly?!

Someone tell them already, yeesh.


Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry

Image


You REALLY think that odds would be in your favour in such way you'd be upper class member instead of peasant?
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Land of Tob
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 359
Founded: Apr 12, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Land of Tob » Fri May 24, 2013 12:23 pm

In my opinion (don't come hating!) they shouldn't be allowed to marry, but obviously they should have the same legal rights and civil rights, and so on (except marriage, of course).
Don't come hating, because I know it's gonna happen.

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Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Fri May 24, 2013 12:24 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
How about no? As someone of Prussian blood I can tell you it isn't a great system. Better than the Nazis, but far from a good system. Even for the rich and powerful it didn't work out that well as there was a thin line you had to walk and if your leader was making stupid decisions militarily you couldn't correct him. Plus the whole succession thing was, and still is, a mess. You know how many pretenders to the throne there are over here? Google it, I know of at least 4 but I'm willing to bet there are more than that. I understand it's summer though so I doubt you'll do that even.

I'm not sure what the season of the year has anything to do with the discussion.

Please do not claim to be Prussian and display your abhorrent anti-militaristic views and tolerance of the mentally ill.


Yes, because we all know how Fredick simply loved war and was the perfect example of straight manhood without a single thing to make anyone wonder if he might be gay. Later leaders were more conservative but Fredick made Prussia, Fredick IS Prussia. Please do not claim to know anything about Prussia if you do not, you're an embarrassment.

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Land of Tob
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 359
Founded: Apr 12, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Land of Tob » Fri May 24, 2013 12:24 pm

Immoren wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:
Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry

Image


You REALLY think that odds would be in your favour in such way you'd be upper class member instead of peasant?


Hmm.. Matt Smith is one of the worst Doctors in the whole series.

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Agritum
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22161
Founded: May 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Agritum » Fri May 24, 2013 12:24 pm

Land of Tob wrote:In my opinion (don't come hating!) they shouldn't be allowed to marry, but obviously they should have the same legal rights and civil rights, and so on (except marriage, of course).
Don't come hating, because I know it's gonna happen.

Just to know, why do you think they shouldn't?

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Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 40489
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 12:24 pm

Ensiferum wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
And as I said your experience, and the experience of most other Germans are not the same. Considering you have apparently been living outside of Germany (if you ever did live there) for a while, I would say your knowledge of German opinion is nil.


He may be right if he spend time in Bayern or even here in Baden-Württemberg as the CDU and the conservative factions hold quite a bit of power here compared to somewhere like Berlin or Saxony. I would say it depends on where he spent time, but overall I think more would be for rights than against them and at worst it's about 50-50.


The polls I found said around 3/4 give or take support recognition. Also as pointed out earlier, I grew up in an area that was 85% democrats. My neighborhood was 100% Jewish when I was younger (yay red lining). My experience is not the norm for the US.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Just A Little though

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Anachronous Rex
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6312
Founded: Mar 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Anachronous Rex » Fri May 24, 2013 12:24 pm

German Deutsche wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
... Do they not realize World War 2 is over and the fascists lost really badly?!

Someone tell them already, yeesh.


Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry

The sad fact is, that once you become educated you will almost certainly abandon such an idiotic idea.

And by "sad fact" I mean, "the reason why I am not in any way threatened by you."
Last edited by Anachronous Rex on Fri May 24, 2013 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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If you are not sure if I am being serious, assume that I am not.

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65243
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri May 24, 2013 12:24 pm

Land of Tob wrote:
Immoren wrote:
Image


You REALLY think that odds would be in your favour in such way you'd be upper class member instead of peasant?


Hmm.. Matt Smith is one of the worst Doctors in the whole series.

Silence heathen!
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
German Deutsche
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 12:25 pm

Immoren wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:
Unlike most others, we do not give up because we lost a war.

Anyways, the way things are now, we'll all be in the upper class and have more influence than the peasantry

Image


You REALLY think that odds would be in your favour in such way you'd be upper class member instead of peasant?

We are upper class members.

We are enrolled in the best schools, we make the best grades, everything and anything to ensure our path to politics is successful.

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Land of Tob
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 359
Founded: Apr 12, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Land of Tob » Fri May 24, 2013 12:26 pm

Immoren wrote:
Land of Tob wrote:
Hmm.. Matt Smith is one of the worst Doctors in the whole series.

Silence heathen!


*cough* David Tennant and Christopher Eccleston *cough*

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