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To what extent should LGBT people have rights?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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To what extent should LGBT people have rights?

Same-sex marriage should be legal.
382
79%
Same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal but same-sex civil unions should be allowed that entail most of the same rights and responsibilities as marriage.
39
8%
Same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal but same-sex civil unions that don't entail many of the same rights and responsibilities as marriage should be legal.
10
2%
Neither same-sex marriage or same-sex civil unions should be legal but same-sex sexual relations should be legal.
14
3%
Neither same-sex marriage or same-sex civil unions should be legal and same-sex sexual relations should be illegal.
41
8%
 
Total votes : 486

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German Deutsche
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Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 11:37 am

Neutraligon wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:Yes.

Something similar to the German Empire of the Late 1800's and early 1900's.


You want a failed state as your government?

It did not fail, the enemies of Germany after our artificial and designed defeat of the Great War the economic sanctions became a massive burden on us. Our people starved, and we had nothing left, because of the economic sanctions.

Therefore it was only natural that a Hardliner such as Hitler would appeal to the situation of the common people, and while I do not agree with his stance on Jews and Slavs, I admire the fact that he pulled such a disastrous situation and created a sprawling Empire, within the time of 12 years.

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New Rogernomics
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Fri May 24, 2013 11:37 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Immoren wrote:So you'd rather have oligarchy or dictatorship?

Yes.

Something similar to the German Empire of the Late 1800's and early 1900's.
You mean a poverty stricken hole, just like the rest of Europe was during the industrial revolution, and the early 20th century? :eyebrow:
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Anachronous Rex
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Founded: Mar 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Anachronous Rex » Fri May 24, 2013 11:37 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Immoren wrote:So you'd rather have oligarchy or dictatorship?

Yes.

Something similar to the German Empire of the Late 1800's and early 1900's.

A weak and inept monarchy held together by jingoist strongman?
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 11:39 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
You want a failed state as your government?

It did not fail, the enemies of Germany after our artificial and designed defeat of the Great War the economic sanctions became a massive burden on us. Our people starved, and we had nothing left, because of the economic sanctions.

Therefore it was only natural that a Hardliner such as Hitler would appeal to the situation of the common people, and while I do not agree with his stance on Jews and Slavs, I admire the fact that he pulled such a disastrous situation and created a sprawling Empire, within the time of 12 years.


That is still a failed state, even if the failure was caused by outside influence. Also, artificial defeat? Hitler also failed.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Fri May 24, 2013 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Immoren
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri May 24, 2013 11:39 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Immoren wrote:So you'd rather have oligarchy or dictatorship?

Yes.

Something similar to the German Empire of the Late 1800's and early 1900's.

I always find amusing how young'uns are pissing on works of their ancestors...
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discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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Northern Dominus
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Founded: Aug 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dominus » Fri May 24, 2013 11:41 am

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote:I demand you tie six bowline knots while singing Una Furtiva!

As long as there are absolutely no follow-up questions whatsoever, consider it done.
There might be a clamor for an encore involving clove hitches and something from Don Carlo...
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Central Kadigan
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Founded: Apr 08, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Central Kadigan » Fri May 24, 2013 11:42 am

German Deutsche wrote:I grew up in Berlin-Pankow, I was part of a conservative-fascist youth group. We had a lot of members, the fact that before joining you have to sign an application dealing with your political and social beliefs, and that we had so many members, tells me that the majority of my fellow German youth have the same views, therefore it is only natural to presume that since youth are more influenced by adults than anything, that their parents also feel this way, which of course increases the numbers of those with good views.

Wow, a self-identified fascist who is hates gays - I'm shocked! Of all places on earth, I would have thought that Berlin would be especially cautious about letting you guys start forming political youth groups again. Is there rampant short-term memory loss over there or something??
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Neutraligon
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 11:42 am

Immoren wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:Yes.

Something similar to the German Empire of the Late 1800's and early 1900's.

I always find amusing how young'uns are pissing on works of their ancestors...


He has still yet to show any proof of his assertion that Germans in general do not support same sex marriage. Sigh, actually there are a whole bunch of things he has failed to source. I wonder if has any.
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Menassa
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Menassa » Fri May 24, 2013 11:43 am

Central Kadigan wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:I grew up in Berlin-Pankow, I was part of a conservative-fascist youth group. We had a lot of members, the fact that before joining you have to sign an application dealing with your political and social beliefs, and that we had so many members, tells me that the majority of my fellow German youth have the same views, therefore it is only natural to presume that since youth are more influenced by adults than anything, that their parents also feel this way, which of course increases the numbers of those with good views.

Wow, a self-identified fascist who is hates gays - I'm shocked! Of all places on earth, I would have thought that Berlin would be especially cautious about letting you guys start forming political youth groups again. Is there rampant short-term memory loss over there or something??

Is 70 years short term?
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German Deutsche
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Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 11:44 am

Neutraligon wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:It did not fail, the enemies of Germany after our artificial and designed defeat of the Great War the economic sanctions became a massive burden on us. Our people starved, and we had nothing left, because of the economic sanctions.

Therefore it was only natural that a Hardliner such as Hitler would appeal to the situation of the common people, and while I do not agree with his stance on Jews and Slavs, I admire the fact that he pulled such a disastrous situation and created a sprawling Empire, within the time of 12 years.


That is still a failed state, even if the failure was caused by outside influence. Also, artificial defeat? Hitler also failed.

Artificial defeat because internal leftists and anti-war cowards were influencing these things.

hitler did not fail, he boosted the economy and provided a good environment for Germans, even though I do not agree with his racial policies, I still admire what he was able to do.

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German Deutsche
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Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 11:45 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Immoren wrote:I always find amusing how young'uns are pissing on works of their ancestors...


He has still yet to show any proof of his assertion that Germans in general do not support same sex marriage. Sigh, actually there are a whole bunch of things he has failed to source. I wonder if has any.

I cannot source a personal experience.

Our groups are very cautious about being public and things, because of how the disgusting liberals oppress anything that is considered right-wing extremist.

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Grave_n_idle
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri May 24, 2013 11:47 am

German Deutsche wrote:hitler did not fail...


No, he scored the desirable 'shooting-yourself-in-the-face-in-a-bunker' win.
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Demen 2
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Postby Demen 2 » Fri May 24, 2013 11:47 am

I for one am still angry that I can't marry my goat.

Damn it, if Bill O'Reilly said that homosexual marriage means at some point I would be able to marry her, why don't I have my rights?

But yeah I support marriage equality
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Immoren
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri May 24, 2013 11:47 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
He has still yet to show any proof of his assertion that Germans in general do not support same sex marriage. Sigh, actually there are a whole bunch of things he has failed to source. I wonder if has any.

I cannot source a personal experience.

Our groups are very cautious about being public and things, because of how the disgusting liberals oppress anything that is considered right-wing extremist.


*wahwahwah* goes the crycopter.

Demen 2 wrote:I for one am still angry that I can't marry my goat.

Damn it, if Bill O'Reilly said that homosexual marriage means at some point I would be able to marry her, why don't I have my rights?

But yeah I support marriage equality


When she's uplifted to human level of sapience, I wouldn't have anything against that.
Last edited by Immoren on Fri May 24, 2013 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri May 24, 2013 11:48 am

Grave_n_idle wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:hitler did not fail...


No, he scored the desirable 'shooting-yourself-in-the-face-in-a-bunker' win.

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German Deutsche
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Founded: May 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby German Deutsche » Fri May 24, 2013 11:48 am

Immoren wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:I cannot source a personal experience.

Our groups are very cautious about being public and things, because of how the disgusting liberals oppress anything that is considered right-wing extremist.


*wahwahwah* goes the crycopter.

I do not understand your comment.

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 11:49 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
That is still a failed state, even if the failure was caused by outside influence. Also, artificial defeat? Hitler also failed.

Artificial defeat because internal leftists and anti-war cowards were influencing these things.

hitler did not fail, he boosted the economy and provided a good environment for Germans, even though I do not agree with his racial policies, I still admire what he was able to do.


So it fell due to internal politics, then it is still a failed state and it failed due to people not liking it from the inside. Neither of these are artificial.

Hitler provided a shit environment for the German citizens in which people had very few rights. The war cost a shit ton of German lives, both civilian and soldier, and in the end screwed the Germans over. The economy created was a war economy which needed that war to happen in order to continue to grow. No Germany even under Hitler was a failed state.
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Grave_n_idle
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri May 24, 2013 11:49 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Immoren wrote:I always find amusing how young'uns are pissing on works of their ancestors...


He has still yet to show any proof of his assertion that Germans in general do not support same sex marriage.


It's not going to happen, because it's bullshit.

The overwhelming majority of Germans support same-sex marriage - and that's supported not only by actual polling but - far more importantly - by the anecdotal experience of my friends over there.
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New Rogernomics
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Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Fri May 24, 2013 11:50 am

Neutraligon wrote:
German Deutsche wrote:It did not fail, the enemies of Germany after our artificial and designed defeat of the Great War the economic sanctions became a massive burden on us. Our people starved, and we had nothing left, because of the economic sanctions.

Therefore it was only natural that a Hardliner such as Hitler would appeal to the situation of the common people, and while I do not agree with his stance on Jews and Slavs, I admire the fact that he pulled such a disastrous situation and created a sprawling Empire, within the time of 12 years.


That is still a failed state, even if the failure was caused by outside influence. Also, artificial defeat? Hitler also failed.
The German economy sucked, it was worse than Australia and New Zealand in terms of living standards well before ww1 and ww2; whatever prosperity occurred during Hitler's regime came from wealth redistribution from other Germans, not to mention conquest, and slave labour.
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Immoren
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri May 24, 2013 11:50 am

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
He has still yet to show any proof of his assertion that Germans in general do not support same sex marriage.


It's not going to happen, because it's bullshit.

The overwhelming majority of Germans support same-sex marriage - and that's supported not only by actual polling but - far more importantly - by the anecdotal experience of my friends over there.

Anectodal experience is best experience.
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discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 11:51 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
He has still yet to show any proof of his assertion that Germans in general do not support same sex marriage. Sigh, actually there are a whole bunch of things he has failed to source. I wonder if has any.

I cannot source a personal experience.

Our groups are very cautious about being public and things, because of how the disgusting liberals oppress anything that is considered right-wing extremist.


So you have nothing backing up the opinion you gave. Good to know. NEXT.
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Curiosityness
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Ex-Nation

Postby Curiosityness » Fri May 24, 2013 11:52 am

no different than the rights as everyone else. everyone should be treated equally
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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri May 24, 2013 11:52 am

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
He has still yet to show any proof of his assertion that Germans in general do not support same sex marriage.


It's not going to happen, because it's bullshit.

The overwhelming majority of Germans support same-sex marriage - and that's supported not only by actual polling but - far more importantly - by the anecdotal experience of my friends over there.


I know, I gave evidence that he was talking shit by sourcing a Wikipedia article that stated something around 3/4 support it. He complained that I sourced Wikipedia. I am still waiting, but I seriously doubt he has anything to give. I have only 1 friend currently living in Germany, and she says the same thing your friends are saying.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Fri May 24, 2013 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Northern Dominus
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Founded: Aug 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dominus » Fri May 24, 2013 11:55 am

German Deutsche wrote:
Immoren wrote:
*wahwahwah* goes the crycopter.

I do not understand your comment.
While you're waiting for him to clarify, we're still waiting on that source other than your anecdotal experience (which doesn't count for anything BTW), that demonstrates that an overwhelming majority of Germans are somehow not against marriage equality, even though they are.
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Ahmedistan
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Founded: Oct 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Ahmedistan » Fri May 24, 2013 11:55 am

Oh sure. Same sex civil unions are fine, but two gay people? getting married in a CHURCH? Please.
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