18 Year Old Girl Facing Felony for Dating 15 Year Old Girl

[The New Earth Coalition]

During that month, yes.

So an 18 year old who has consensual sex with a 17 year old deserves to be locked up in prison with real rapists, gang bangers, murderers and actual criminals? And then that 18 year old should have to register as a sex offender so that people, neighbors, and potential employers think he/she is a pedophile and a rapist the rest of their life?

Yes! Because they broke the law!

[Bralia]

Would you mind if I asked a broader question: with all the diverse writings and theories on the subject of ethics that have come into existence through thousands of years of civilization and are all instantly available to you as a person with internet access, and with you being a human being who is both sentient and sapient and, I would assume, capable of critical thinking, why do you adopt the most rigid, one-dimensional, and least principled ideology of legalism?

Because fuck gay people.

I thought that was the opposite of what he believes.

[Agritum]

Would you mind if I asked a broader question: with all the diverse writings and theories on the subject of ethics that have come into existence through thousands of years of civilization and are all instantly available to you as a person with internet access, and with you being a human being who is both sentient and sapient and, I would assume, capable of critical thinking, why do you adopt the most rigid, one-dimensional, and least principled ideology of legalism?

Because fuck gay people.

And we're lucky that Cosara sees himself as a "Libertarian."

What if he thought of himself as a Rep?

[Evraim]

How does anyone "philosophically consent" to anything?

I didn't want to say "legally consent". In part, I was jesting about another poster's statements.

I would argue that you're making a ridiculously overbroad generalization, and that different people develop, both physically and mentally, at radically different rates. Age is like race: differences within groups are greater than differences between groups.

I would contest that assertion. I do concede that I made a generalization, but I think it a rather fair one. Most fifteen year olds are not as mature as most eighteen year olds. Or do you question the legitimacy of this statement?

I challenge the legitimacy of any law. Law does not determine morality.

Morality is subjective. Subjective morality determines laws that must be applied consistently and with optimal objectivity. Hence, why generalizations might prove instrumental in differentiating between a legal and illegal act.

The question is far too complex to answer with a simple yes/no. Not only do different people develop at different rates, but maturity, cognitive capacity, intelligence, understanding of sexuality, etc., are continua, not discrete yes/no points like an on/off switch. The question cannot be answered simply even for a single individual, since any given individual will be in different places on the continua of the various mental qualities that constitute what we call "capacity to consent." It certainly cannot be answered for an entire demographic.

How do you propose to incorporate these factors into a viable legal framework? Also, would an exceptionally precocious eight year old capable of attaining these criteria be able to consent to sexual intercourse with a fifty year old? This is hypothetical, mostly. I do recognize that such a case would be exceedingly rare and peculiar, but for the purposes of this discussion please consider the conundrum.

Yes. I think that all government-imposed age restrictions are inherently arbitrary and unjust, and should be abolished. Such things should be determined on a case-by-case basis as necessary.

I see. My personal opinion is that such a system would lack anything resembling consistency or objectivity. In fact, the absence of these characteristics might make it difficult to protect actual victims or to convict actual predators because it is too subjective.

[The New Earth Coalition]

Better listen to him, he's go all ITG on your ass if you don't.

I have 800 confirmed kills in combat and special training in gorilla warfare.

From where?! Surely not the USA

[Zweite Alaje]

Don't start with me, Fris.

Better listen to him, he's go all ITG on your ass if you don't.

Ok, last warning. Get back on topic or I'm reporting you.

[Resora]

So an 18 year old who has consensual sex with a 17 year old deserves to be locked up in prison with real rapists, gang bangers, murderers and actual criminals? And then that 18 year old should have to register as a sex offender so that people, neighbors, and potential employers think he/she is a pedophile and a rapist the rest of their life?

Yes! Because they broke the law!

Can't have them younguns threatenin' the state's integrity, now can we?

[Yankee Empire]

I don't think he is an "asshole" though, I think he just speaks his piece and makes no apoliges.

It's great compared to the people that have no passion and just tiptoe around everything and people who use excessive sarcasm.

I'd definitely consider him an asshole, though that's a matter of his obsession with controlling others. I'm probably far more blunt in person than he is -- he only comes across as an angry kid from a bad family background that compensates for his emotional baggage with fantasies of authoritarianism.

And you come across as a typical young teen leftist who thiks they know everythign about the world better than everyone else.

I remmeber that age...dark times.

At least Alaje has vision, has ideals ,Morals, convictions what do young leftists have?

NSG and Revleft.

Ok maybe thats not quite far, but in my own experiance young leftists rebel against conservative traditional things out of a combination of teenage rebbellion and outside sources that show them how "Evil and wrong" they are, When they in turn are just imposing another set of ideals in place of the wants they want to overthrow, and are far more shallow and prone to evil ans elf destruction then what they oppose.

Their obsessed with deconstructionism and "Freedom" and beleive their entitled to it.

[The New Earth Coalition]

Yes! Because they broke the law!

Can't have them younguns threatenin' the state's integrity, now can we?

One "youngin" and one "olden" in your terms.

[Resora]

Because fuck gay people.

And we're lucky that Cosara sees himself as a "Libertarian."

What if he thought of himself as a Rep?

He'd run for office.

Better listen to him, he's go all ITG on your ass if you don't.

Ok, last warning. Get back on topic or I'm reporting you.

[Cosara]

During that month, yes.

Would you mind if I asked a broader question: with all the diverse writings and theories on the subject of ethics that have come into existence through thousands of years of civilization and are all instantly available to you as a person with internet access, and with you being a human being who is both sentient and sapient and, I would assume, capable of critical thinking, why do you adopt the most rigid, one-dimensional, and least principled ideology of legalism?

I am not a Legalist. Redemption can only be achieved through faith in god, and not through obeying the law.

[Lemanrussland]

I'd definitely consider him an asshole, though that's a matter of his obsession with controlling others. I'm probably far more blunt in person than he is -- he only comes across as an angry kid from a bad family background that compensates for his emotional baggage with fantasies of authoritarianism.

And you come across as a typical young teen leftist who thiks they know everythign about the world better than everyone else.

I remmeber that age...dark times.

At least Alaje has vision, has ideals ,Morals, convictions what do young leftists have?

NSG and Revleft.

Ok maybe thats not quite far, but in my own experiance young leftists rebel against conservative traditional things out of a combination of teenage rebbellion and outside sources that show them how "Evil and wrong" they are, When they in turn are just imposing another set of ideals in place of the wants they want to overthrow, and are far more shallow and prone to evil ans elf destruction then what they oppose.

Their obsessed with deconstructionism and "Freedom" and beleive their entitled to it.

I thik/remmber that in my experiance, I want to rebbel against authority ans beleive everything I red on Revleft and NSG. I'm not made of straw.

[Evraim]

Do you think they should be put in the SO registry, along with rapists and pedophiles?

Do you think it would be prudent to, at the very least, have different levels on the SO registry, with a lower level for trivial bullshit like urinating in public because you're drunk and having sex with someone you're dating while you're a teenager, and a higher level for child rapists? Or should they be tossed into the same boat, with the same sort of restrictions and punishments as one another? Does it make any sense?

No.

Definitely.

Yes.

Simple answers to simple questions.

[Frisivisia]

Because fuck gay people.

I thought that was the opposite of what he believes.

I was answering his question as I imagined Cosara would.

Would you mind if I asked a broader question: with all the diverse writings and theories on the subject of ethics that have come into existence through thousands of years of civilization and are all instantly available to you as a person with internet access, and with you being a human being who is both sentient and sapient and, I would assume, capable of critical thinking, why do you adopt the most rigid, one-dimensional, and least principled ideology of legalism?

I am not a Legalist. Redemption can only be achieved through faith in god, and not through obeying the law.

I trust the Whiterun Guards more than the statue of Talos in the square.

[Cosara]

And we're lucky that Cosara sees himself as a "Libertarian."

What if he thought of himself as a Rep?

He'd run for office.

Ok, last warning. Get back on topic or I'm reporting you.

The mods will be here soon.

[Neo Arcad]

I have to question why it's even illegal when the ages are so close together. Doesn't make any sense, in my opinion.

[Resora]

Would you mind if I asked a broader question: with all the diverse writings and theories on the subject of ethics that have come into existence through thousands of years of civilization and are all instantly available to you as a person with internet access, and with you being a human being who is both sentient and sapient and, I would assume, capable of critical thinking, why do you adopt the most rigid, one-dimensional, and least principled ideology of legalism?

I am not a Legalist. Redemption can only be achieved through faith in god, and not through obeying the law.

Nobody's talking about salvation, mate.

[Cosara]

I am not a Legalist. Redemption can only be achieved through faith in god, and not through obeying the law.

Nobody's talking about salvation, mate.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(theology)

[The New Earth Coalition]

I have to question why it's even illegal when the ages are so close together. Doesn't make any sense, in my opinion.

One is an adult and the other isn't. As simple as that.

[Neo Arcad]

Would you mind if I asked a broader question: with all the diverse writings and theories on the subject of ethics that have come into existence through thousands of years of civilization and are all instantly available to you as a person with internet access, and with you being a human being who is both sentient and sapient and, I would assume, capable of critical thinking, why do you adopt the most rigid, one-dimensional, and least principled ideology of legalism?

I am not a Legalist. Redemption can only be achieved through faith in god, and not through obeying the law.

u wot m8

Don't bring your imaginary friend into this.

[Resora]

Nobody's talking about salvation, mate.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(theology)

Yeah, doesn't change the fact that nobody is debating theology.

[Lemanrussland]

I have to question why it's even illegal when the ages are so close together. Doesn't make any sense, in my opinion.

The laws are written in a quite ham-handed way. There's also been a great witchhunt against pedophiles and such, so these kind of blanket punishments are acceptable/even popular.

This person being subjected to things like "pedophile free zones" for the rest of her life is pretty absurd. She's getting a worse punishment than most felons do.

[Yankee Empire]

I am not a Legalist. Redemption can only be achieved through faith in god, and not through obeying the law.

u wot m8

Don't bring your imaginary friend into this.

Don't bring pointless insults in here.

[Quelesh]

If they can, shouldn't they also be permitted to drive, consume alcohol, volunteer in the military or smoke marijuana?

They CAN drive, and the answer to the rest of those questions is a resounding "yes" with the sole exception of the military due to the importance of physical development.

Even that should not be based on chronological age, I think, though it's perfectly legitimate for the military to discriminate on the basis of physical, and mental, capability.

They can't. You can't drive until you're 16 (in most states, at least), you can't consume alcohol until 21 and Marijuana is very much illegal.

Well, you can do those things, it's just that a bunch of legislators huddled in a capitol building somewhere wrote down a few lines saying you're not supposed to, and some cops are inclined to arrest and jail you if they catch you doing them. Because, you know, they don't like you doing that. Or they think you're stupid. Or something like that.

So there's no such thing as an unjust law?

Don't have sex with minors.

There are unjust laws. This is not one of them.

So when this young woman was 17 years old, it was perfectly okay, morally speaking, for her to have sex with her girlfriend, but the minute the clock struck midnight on her 18th birthday, it suddenly became seriously morally wrong for her to do the exact same thing that it was morally okay for her to do just a couple hours earlier?

Do you think the world is so black and white that anyone who disagrees with you on this one specific issue must fit into the category of "Libs" and must be your political rival?

Having a problem with people being punished for crimes they commit is the liberal speciality.

When the "crime" wasn't wrong, then I certainly do have a problem with it. The only crime here is being committed by the State.

Do you think that most fifteen year olds are capable of consenting to sexual intercourse?

The governments of most European and South American countries seem to think so, with their ages of consent of 15 or lower. I think the question is essentially unanswerable, even for a single individual, much less for "most" of a demographic, as "capacity to consent" is not a discrete yes/no value, but rather a collection of continua of mental properties.

Since I cannot answer the question, and neither I think can you, I will accept what an individual says about their own consent or lack thereof. The younger partner in this case insists that she is not a victim of anything, and she knows a lot better than I do (and better than you do, and better than the State does).

[Frisivisia]

u wot m8

Don't bring your imaginary friend into this.

Don't bring pointless insults in here.

What insult, mate?