18 Year Old Girl Facing Felony for Dating 15 Year Old Girl

[Haydenish People]

There is nothing to debate. The only reason this is making news is because they were lesbians. If it were an 18-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, no one would care. Underage sexual activity is illegal, she was found guilty, justice was served.

[Resora]

I certainly do. Adult-level maturity is not a prerequisite for sexual activity -- they just have to be old enough to avoid facing any psychological or emotional harm from premature sexual activity (the typical reason for AoC laws in the first place). No fifteen year old suffers from the sex itself with people of comparable maturity.

And, you would maintain that an average eighteen year old possesses a level of maturity comparable to an average fifteen year old? I would disagree.

Doesn't matter. The burden of proof is on you. You have to prove that an 18 year old sleeping with a 15 year old harms the 15 year old. Otherwise, it's an unjust law.

Good luck with that.

[Evraim]

They should just make it illegal for minors to have sex at all, now that would be a good idea.

How do you propose to enforce this brilliant piece of legislation? People seem to be angry that establishing boundaries is necessary in order to maintain the consistency and, by extension, the legitimacy of the legal system. What if the older girl had been nineteen or twenty? Would that have made it a crime to engage in sexual intercourse with her fifteen year old lover? Or could the age difference be wider? We all have distinct notions of how to categorize statutory rape, of how to define the boundaries between a consensual act and sexual assault. My question is whether or not the status quo is actually unjust? Some appear to believe it so. Isn't that inevitable though?

Doesn't matter. The burden of proof is on you. You have to prove that an 18 year old sleeping with a 15 year old harms the 15 year old. Otherwise, it's an unjust law.

Good luck with that.

Is the burden of proof on me? I recall asking you to verify that most fifteen year olds possessed levels of maturity comparable to most eighteen year olds? If this happens not to be the case, wouldn't it be unjust by your own admission for the older individual to engage in sexual intercourse with their younger counterpart?

[Resora]

There is nothing to debate. The only reason this is making news is because they were lesbians. If it were an 18-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, no one would care. Underage sexual activity is illegal, she was found guilty, justice was served.

Except that's wrong. I'd be pissed as hell if a seventeen year old guy starts dating a fifteen year old girl, only to get condemned as a sex offender for life because he maintains that relationship a few months later.

[Bralia]

Good luck enforcing that law . . .

Where there's a will, there's a way.

And just how do you propose you execute the will of that law, then? Cameras in the rooms of minors everywhere?

[Wisconsin9]

There is nothing to debate. The only reason this is making news is because they were lesbians. If it were an 18-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, no one would care. Underage sexual activity is illegal, she was found guilty, justice was served.

How many times do we have to say that that's not true before you believe it?

[Lemanrussland]

And, you would maintain that an average eighteen year old possesses a level of maturity comparable to an average fifteen year old? I would disagree.

I would maintain that maturity levels even within members of the same age group vary wildly.

I would also maintain that a 15 year old is capable of giving informed consent to have sex with their peers. And, I would maintain that an 18 year old would fall under the definition of peer.

Would there even be an argument if it was an 18 year old boy committing statutory rape against a 15 year old girl?

If she consents, its not rape.

Because there has to be a line somewhere.

Yes, and we're telling you where that line should fucking be.

Really?

18 yr old fucking a minor vs institutionalized racism.

Nowhere near the samething.

Everybody here knows its not about an 18 year old fucking a peer. Its about the fact that the 15 year old girl's parents finding out, and wanting some sort of revenge against the 18 year old girl for "turning their daughter gay".

Technically, it's statutory rape. Minors are naturally impressionable/easily manipulated and can't give informed consent. Of course, it's a matter of debate when we should `draw the line` (which is the easiest way of doing things).

It's not the same thing as "normal" rape, which is forcible.

[Cosara]

There is nothing to debate. The only reason this is making news is because they were lesbians. If it were an 18-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, no one would care. Underage sexual activity is illegal, she was found guilty, justice was served.

She hasn't been found guilty yet (but she is). She faces 15 years in prison plus a lifetime as a sex offender.

[Zweite Alaje]

They should just make it illegal for minors to have sex at all, now that would be a good idea.

Yes, let's start locking up even more people for victimless crimes. Let's just abandon the idea of the government serving to BETTER the lives of citizens.

It will be making the lives of citizens better, by removing these sick people out of the way.

They should just make it illegal for minors to have sex at all, now that would be a good idea.

California is way ahead of you.

That is excellent.

[Haydenish People]

There is nothing to debate. The only reason this is making news is because they were lesbians. If it were an 18-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, no one would care. Underage sexual activity is illegal, she was found guilty, justice was served.

Except that's wrong. I'd be pissed as hell if a seventeen year old guy starts dating a fifteen year old girl, only to get condemned as a sex offender for life because he maintains that relationship a few months later.

Why should we make exceptions to the law? One girl was below the age of consent, thus rendering their sexual activity illegal.

[Lemanrussland]

No, it specifically states you can't be over 17.

Is not more than 4 years older than the victim of this violation who was 14 years of age or older but not more than 17 years of age at the time the person committed this violation.

I personally think it's stupid, but she is technically guilty.

I see...

I am reading it like this.

Is not more than 4 years older than the victim of this violation who was 14 years of age or older but not more than 17 years of age at the time the person committed this violation

I'm really not sure if you're right on that. Every law site I go to reads it as I'm reading it. The victim has to be 14-17, the suspect doesn't have to be under 17.

[Grenartia]

Because there has to be a line somewhere.


There would probably be an argument if an eighty year old man committed statutory rape against an eight year old girl. This is NSG, after all.

They should just make it illegal for minors to have sex at all, now that would be a good idea.

And while we're at it, we might as well line people up against the wall and shoot them for going 2 mph over the speed limit.

[Zweite Alaje]

Where there's a will, there's a way.

And just how do you propose you execute the will of that law, then? Cameras in the rooms of minors everywhere?

Maybe. I'm not exactly the "freedom" type.

[Resora]

Yes, let's start locking up even more people for victimless crimes. Let's just abandon the idea of the government serving to BETTER the lives of citizens.

It will be making the lives of citizens better, by removing these sick people out of the way.

So you didn't have sex before you turned 18? You're either a very boring person or a very unattractive person.

[Evraim]

It will be making the lives of citizens better, by removing these sick people out of the way.

So you didn't have sex before you turned 18? You're either a very boring person or a very unattractive person.

Personal attacks are not warranted.

[Shamshu the Defiant]

They should just make it illegal for minors to have sex at all, now that would be a good idea.

How do you propose to enforce this brilliant piece of legislation?

It's easy, we'll just put up signs in the Junior Varsity locker room: "No fucking"

Below that, we can put a motivational sign that says "Congratulations! Our school has gone ___ days without an unwanted pregnancy!" In dry erase, of course. Probably only need room for one digit.

If that doesn't work, the spouse of a prominent conservative politician can make a public service announcement on television.

"Young people, just say "no"...to the fundamental and overriding premise of all organic life which is hardwired into your very neurological core."

Or demerits. We can hand out demerits.

[Cosara]

It will be making the lives of citizens better, by removing these sick people out of the way.

So you didn't have sex before you turned 18? You're either a very boring person or a very unattractive person.

Or a religious person who doesn't believe in sex before marriage.

[Resora]

So you didn't have sex before you turned 18? You're either a very boring person or a very unattractive person.

Or a religious person who doesn't believe in sex before marriage.

Like I said, a very boring person.

[Shamshu the Defiant]

Oops, double post. Sorry

[Meryuma]

We should make exceptions to bad laws.



How can you say their relationship is wrong? You know nothing about them.



That's an insult to all the young people who have loving, consensual relationships, as well as to all the survivors of actual sexual abuse.

I don't know a lot of criminals, so what?

Things should be crimes because they're harmful. They're not harmful because they're crimes.

Gay sex gets the death penalty in 6 countries. You wouldn't have the same attitude about that.

Why is this an assumption?

Because..
Man having sex with younger girl/boy: HANG HIM! STONE HIM! YOU FUCKING PEDOPHILE!

woman having sex with younger boy/girl: It's just a harmless relationship. Nothing to see here.


That's basically what happens. Wasn't there a George Lopez episode on this?

If a 20 year old man has sex with a 15 year old boy it could very well be harmless.

I certainly do. Adult-level maturity is not a prerequisite for sexual activity -- they just have to be old enough to avoid facing any psychological or emotional harm from premature sexual activity (the typical reason for AoC laws in the first place). No fifteen year old suffers from the sex itself with people of comparable maturity.

The law kicks the fuck out of this argument. Until you reach the age of consent, you cannot legally consent.

They said it shouldn't be illegal, you responded by saying it's illegal.

Would there even be an argument if it was an 18 year old boy committing statutory rape against a 15 year old girl?

Stop trivializing rape.

They should just make it illegal for minors to have sex at all, now that would be a good idea.

Why? You'd just have a bunch of horny minors forced into shame and secrecy. Shit like that kills perfectly fine, loving, relationships.

There is nothing to debate. The only reason this is making news is because they were lesbians. If it were an 18-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, no one would care. Underage sexual activity is illegal, she was found guilty, justice was served.

Law ≠ justice.

Also, if it were an 18 year old man and a 15 year old girl I'd care.

It will be making the lives of citizens better, by removing these sick people out of the way.

How is it sick? "Sick" implies a negative deviation from a state of equilibrium, whereas having sexual desires & the capability to act on them far before age 18 is a biological fact for the majority of human beings. I can see how you could call it foolish or irresponsible or unsafe for 2 16 year olds (for instance) to have sex but "sick" is just nonsensical.

[Bralia]

And just how do you propose you execute the will of that law, then? Cameras in the rooms of minors everywhere?

Maybe. I'm not exactly the "freedom" type.

Hm, true enough. X.X. Cameras in theirs wouldn't do it, you know. Horny teenagers will always find a way . . .

[Evraim]

Or a religious person who doesn't believe in sex before marriage.

Like I said, a very boring person.

You do realize that engaging in sexual intercourse does not preclude a person from being boring, yes? And that many interesting people elect to not engage in sexual intercourse? This is where I insert my stereotypes are bad speech.

Maybe. I'm not exactly the "freedom" type.

Hm, true enough. X.X. Cameras in theirs wouldn't do it, you know. Horny teenagers will always find a way . . .

Cars. Theatres. The beach.

[Zweite Alaje]

It will be making the lives of citizens better, by removing these sick people out of the way.

So you didn't have sex before you turned 18? You're either a very boring person or a very unattractive person.

No, I didn't have sex before 18. I'm not a whore like most people are these days.

[Cosara]

Maybe. I'm not exactly the "freedom" type.

Hm, true enough. X.X. Cameras in theirs wouldn't do it, you know. Horny teenagers will always find a way . . .

There was a thread about this...

[Evraim]

So you didn't have sex before you turned 18? You're either a very boring person or a very unattractive person.

No, I didn't have sex before 18. I'm not a whore like most people are these days.

Al... let's not go down this road.

If a 20 year old man has sex with a 15 year old boy it could very well be harmless.

Would it be harmless in most cases though? I would argue that a twenty year old possesses a degree of authority over the fifteen year old as a result of the prevailing tendency for older individuals to have a greater level of maturity, better access to social capital, and a variety of other factors. This authority combined with the younger boy's relative immaturity, once again assuming that in most cases a fifteen year old is not an adult, means that the relationship possesses a coercive element. Keep in mind that there is a ratio of 3:4 in this scenario. In relative terms, the older partner likely has far more experience.