18 Year Old Girl Facing Felony for Dating 15 Year Old Girl

[Ibwa]

I've seen some mature fifteen year old teenagers better at making decisions that some twenty year olds. Age above a certain limit is not necessarily required for people to make informed decisions. Also, what happens when you suddenly turn eighteen? Do you magically receive the ability to give consent? What about the day before that, you're incapable of making any choices for your whole life before that?

this comment is per-fuckin-fection

I aplaud you sir/madam

[Grave_n_idle]

the statitory rape law goes against freedom,

So? That's not automatically a bad thing

Laws against murder 'go against freedom', too. Most people agree that's a good thing.

wether you like it or not love can exist in kids under 18. In fact I think thas when a person has the most love is 18 and under.

Having been a parent to teenage kids, I'd say that that's when a person talks about love the most, certainly.

I don't see how that matters, though. The crime isn't love, it's sex - with a minor.

[Mirkana]

The real problem with age of consent laws is that people can and do have sexual desires before they are considered old enough to consent to sexual behavior.

That's not a problem.

There's no judgement on desire - only on acting on it.

I'm talking about the younger person initiating things. What if it was the 15-year-old that asked the 18-year-old out? What if she was the one who initiated the sex?

[Farnhamia]

I've seen some mature fifteen year old teenagers better at making decisions that some twenty year olds. Age above a certain limit is not necessarily required for people to make informed decisions. Also, what happens when you suddenly turn eighteen? Do you magically receive the ability to give consent? What about the day before that, you're incapable of making any choices for your whole life before that?

this comment is per-fuckin-fection

I aplaud you sir/madam

No one says the system is per-fucking-fect. It's designed to protect the most people at the lowest cost. Teenagers who have better judgement than adults will wait.

[Stattr]

1. 18-15= 3, Meaning she had all right to day that girl.
2. understandable that this is an issue....
3. Blaming LGBTQ for making daughter gay? >.>

[Ibwa]

the statitory rape law goes against freedom,

So? That's not automatically a bad thing

Laws against murder 'go against freedom', too. Most people agree that's a good thing.

wether you like it or not love can exist in kids under 18. In fact I think thas when a person has the most love is 18 and under.

Having been a parent to teenage kids, I'd say that that's when a person talks about love the most, certainly.

I don't see how that matters, though. The crime isn't love, it's sex - with a minor.

why is sex between two able and willing girls such a big deal anyway? sex is the basic adaptation of survival, "god" supposidly made us this way so why not imbrace it?

[Grave_n_idle]

I've seen some mature fifteen year old teenagers better at making decisions that some twenty year olds.

True. Perhaps we should raise the age of consent.

Age above a certain limit is not necessarily required for people to make informed decisions.

Legally, it is.

Also, what happens when you suddenly turn eighteen? Do you magically receive the ability to give consent? What about the day before that, you're incapable of making any choices for your whole life before that?

Yes.

To be honest - human brains aren't close to fully formed in teens, or often well into the twenties. Perhaps we really should have a higher age of consent - but we've kind of compromised.

[Wisconsin9]

I've seen some mature fifteen year old teenagers better at making decisions that some twenty year olds. Age above a certain limit is not necessarily required for people to make informed decisions. Also, what happens when you suddenly turn eighteen? Do you magically receive the ability to give consent? What about the day before that, you're incapable of making any choices for your whole life before that?

You have earned my respect.

[Grave_n_idle]

That's not a problem.

There's no judgement on desire - only on acting on it.

I'm talking about the younger person initiating things. What if it was the 15-year-old that asked the 18-year-old out? What if she was the one who initiated the sex?

What if?

I don't see how that changes anything.

[Sophian]

If she wants to have a lesbian lover, why should we deny her that? What gives us that right, we should congradulate(fuck my spelling) her for bieng happy.

The problem isn't that she's a lesbian.

Just like it wasn't the age gap.

The problem is that one of the participants is a minor.

The problem is that you, Cosara, and the law want to pretend that because the alleged victim is a minor she is as sexually naive as a 5 year old. What you, Cosara, and the law seem to disregard is the fact that many high school students and 15 year olds are knowledgeable of sex, want sex, and are happily and willfully participating in sexual activity. In which case, nobody is harmed, no property is damaged, no property is stolen, and nobody's free will is violated. So, how is this behavior between these two girls unethical? And is it really so unethical to the extent that the accused deserves to be incarcerated on tax payer dollars? Is it really so unethical that the accused deserves to be associated with pedophiles and rapists for the rest of her life just because she had consensual relations with a high school peer she is dating, a high school peer who is 2 years and some months younger than her?

[Grave_n_idle]

why is sex between two able and willing girls such a big deal anyway?

It's not.

Neither was the age gap.

The 'big deal' is statutory rape.

sex is the basic adaptation of survival,

So is killing your enemies. And eating them.

We still have laws about those things.

"god" supposidly made us this way so why not imbrace it?

Your argument against the age of consent... is god?

[Northern Dominus]

Okay, but laws are intended to punish people for unethical and immoral behavior like theft, harming a person or their property, and violating someone free will. The accused didn't steal anything, harm anyone or their property, or violate anyone's free will. The accused continued to engage in a romantic relationship with someone they go to high school with after their 18th birthday. Does that really seem like a truly terrible offense that deserves punishment, and a lifetime as a registered sex offender? Being a felon and a registered sex offender will negatively influence her employment and educational advancement for the rest of her life. It just seems like tax payer money could be used to punish real criminals, real rapists, and people who actually committed crimes that harmed people, as opposed to locking up an 18 year old for continuing to date someone less than 3 years younger than her. I don't think the accused did anything immoral. There are laws against marijuana use, and there are laws against kids opening a lemonade stand without the proper licensing, but it doesn't necessarily mean that using marijuana or opening a lemonade stand without first paying off Uncle Sam's cronies is immoral and warrants punishment even though the law might dictate such.

We're not talking about immorality. Well, I'm not. Frankly, the crime in my eyes is the 18 y/o's stupidity in thinking there wouldn't be any consequences. Seriously, you live in friggin' Florida and the other girl's father is a cop. Come on.

And even then, I don't even really think the criminal is the teenager in question, if there is such a thing.
John Hughes explored the issue most succinctly when he wrote and directed The Breakfast Club. Teenagers are treated pretty goddamn schizophrenically by and large. They're told to "grow up" or "mature", but then they're expected to obey like little kids as well and get punished accordingly when they step off of some narrow path of morality or advancement that their parents, their school, their peers, or society in general has set for them. And occasionally some asshole with a literal or metaphorical megaphone goes and makes a moral outrage out of either a minor incident or one that was just generated in their brains (rainbow party and/or "sex bracelets" ringing a bell anyone)?

I find it funny that more hyperbollic bullshit blustering is generated over this sort of story (sensationalized of course because of the "gay" angle no doubt), and yet nobody bats an eye at Hugh Heffner and the age gap between him and any of his girlfriends. Are not they probably more subject to manipulation from promises of fame and fortune from a man who could admittedly make it happen pretty quickly as opposed to a couple of teenagers? Or if not that what about the utterly shitty examples that kids are getting without context in the form of Pregnant at 16, Teen Mom, or anything that the Lifetime/Hallmark channels show that parents don't seem to care about discussing with their teenaged children?

Anybody who was a perfect little teenager or is, raise your hand right now, and get ready to duck from all the flying glass pretty quickly..

[Gravlen]

That's not a problem.

There's no judgement on desire - only on acting on it.

I'm talking about the younger person initiating things. What if it was the 15-year-old that asked the 18-year-old out? What if she was the one who initiated the sex?

Under certain circumstances, the court can deviate from the minimum prison sentence required under Florida's sentencing guidelines - if it can be shown the child was an initiator, willing participant, aggressor, or provoker of the incident.

[Evraim]

I've seen some mature fifteen year old teenagers better at making decisions that some twenty year olds.

True. Perhaps we should raise the age of consent.

Well played, Grave.

[Sutopier]

Whether it is fair or not is irrelevant, as child-protection laws can never be too strict.
Whether it is moral or not because she will 'learn the consequences of her actions' is also irrelevant, as she is a registered sex offender.
The 18 year old's life is over.

[Mirkana]

I'm talking about the younger person initiating things. What if it was the 15-year-old that asked the 18-year-old out? What if she was the one who initiated the sex?

What if?

I don't see how that changes anything.

I think it's at least a different matter than a teacher pressuring his student into sex. Unless it can be proven that the older girl manipulated the younger girl, then I don't support ruining the older girl's life.

[Cosara]

That's not a problem.

There's no judgement on desire - only on acting on it.

I'm talking about the younger person initiating things. What if it was the 15-year-old that asked the 18-year-old out? What if she was the one who initiated the sex?

It doesn't matter.

[Northern Dominus]

True. Perhaps we should raise the age of consent.

Well played, Grave.

Or we should, y'know, talk to the kids about sex? And not in a "tut-tut no no bash you over the head with moral indignity and a holy book while forcing you to look at images of STDs" way either, more like "these are the ins and outs (giggle), what could happen, what you can do to prevent it, you don't have to put up with sexual harassment or rape and here's where you can get help etc. etc.".

Oh silly me, that's crazy talk.

[Dakini]

Whether it is fair or not is irrelevant, as child-protection laws can never be too strict.
Whether it is moral or not because she will 'learn the consequences of her actions' is also irrelevant, as she is a registered sex offender.
The 18 year old's life is over.

In principle she can avoid the sex offender registry through the Romeo and Juliet laws.

But being a felon is still pretty life-ending in many ways.

[Ibwa]

why is sex between two able and willing girls such a big deal anyway?

It's not.

Neither was the age gap.

The 'big deal' is statutory rape.

sex is the basic adaptation of survival,

So is killing your enemies. And eating them.

We still have laws about those things.

"god" supposidly made us this way so why not imbrace it?

Your argument against the age of consent... is god?

fuck law let the parents trust in prayer and see if "he who is greater then all" decide. problem solved
and yes god is my argument, ive tried logic but apparently you are immune.

[Evraim]

Well played, Grave.

Or we should, y'know, talk to the kids about sex? And not in a "tut-tut no no bash you over the head with moral indignity and a holy book while forcing you to look at images of STDs" way either, more like "these are the ins and outs (giggle), what could happen, what you can do to prevent it, you don't have to put up with sexual harassment or rape and here's where you can get help etc. etc.".

Oh silly me, that's crazy talk.

Separate issues.

[Grave_n_idle]

The problem is that you, Cosara, and the law want to pretend that because the alleged victim is a minor she is as sexually naive as a 5 year old.

I'm not pretending anyone is as naive as a 5 year old.

What you, Cosara, and the law seem to disregard is the fact that many high school students and 15 year olds are knowledgeable of sex, want sex, and are happily and willfully participating in sexual activity.

I'm not disregarding it.

The question isn't whether or not they are knowledgeable, want sex, would happily have sex... the question is whether or not they can realistically give real, informed consent.

In which case, nobody is harmed, no property is damaged, no property is stolen, and nobody's free will is violated.

I disagree.

So, how is this behavior between these two girls unethical? And is it really so unethical to the extent that the accused deserves to be incarcerated on tax payer dollars? Is it really so unethical that the accused deserves to be associated with pedophiles and rapists for the rest of her life just because she had consensual relations with a high school peer she is dating, a high school peer who is 2 years and some months younger than her?

Yes. The behavior is that unethical.

Keep it in your pants till everyone's old enough. That's not a hard rule to follow, and it's not something these kids were unaware of.

Indeed - if that's the argument - that they were either unaware of the law regarding consent, or they chose to break the law just to have sex... that's an argument they really WERE too young to give real, informed consent.

[Cosara]

Whether it is fair or not is irrelevant, as child-protection laws can never be too strict.
Whether it is moral or not because she will 'learn the consequences of her actions' is also irrelevant, as she is a registered sex offender.
The 18 year old's life is over.

In principle she can avoid the sex offender registry through the Romeo and Juliet laws.

But being a felon is still pretty life-ending in many ways.

We shouldn't opt out of trying her for Statutory Rape just because it will hurt her in the future.

[Sophian]

The utility of statutory rape laws is extremely obvious to anyone not caught up in "gay people should be allowed to do whatever they want" beliefs.

The flaw of a statutory rape law which treats a rapist or a pedophile the same as an 18 year old engaging in consensual behavior with someone they are dating who is 2 years and some months younger than them should be obvious. This isn't a "gay people should be allowed to do whatever they want" thing. This is a "you know, that girl didn't really do anything wrong, yet her whole life could be ruined" thing.

[Ibwa]

Keep it in your pants till everyone's old enough.

if our bodies didn't think we were old enough then we would go threw puberty at that age would we?