18 Year Old Girl Facing Felony for Dating 15 Year Old Girl

[Greed and Death]

She can still get 15 years and probation, however.

Which is fucking ridiculous, though probably unlikely. The 15 years plus probation bit is probably mostly reserved for the most heinous offenses.

Granted, since this is a felony, this young women is prohibited from voting iirc, since Florida does that kind of bullshit.

So one less Democrat voting in a swing state woohoo.

[SatrapyofChloe]

But regardless - even if we took the bizarre view that it was only 'sex' if there was a penis in something... that doesn't mean lesbians are asexual. That's just not what it means.

Can you prove lesbians are sexuals?

Because if you can't..... that's proof they're asexual.

[Cosara]

The law is just. That is my opinion on it.

So, in your view, is the law just simply because it's the law? This is a question several have tried to get you to address more than a few times.

No. My view is that the Law is just, regardless of it's status as a law. It's sensible to have ages of consent and Romeo and Juliet laws.

[Greed and Death]

I imagine there would have to be a misdemeanor charge they could drop to (I don't know if this is the case here).

I mean, it's still pretty much ruins this woman's life because a lot of places tend to care if you have a criminal record. She might be able to get a pardon eventually, if Florida pardons felons.

Rick Scott is an Evangelical Republican (and I hear, corrupt), so I don't think he'll pardon her, and Obama doesn't pardon anyone, so I don't see an Executive Pardon happening.

Obama can only pardon for federal offenses.

[Grave_n_idle]

I imagine there would have to be a misdemeanor charge they could drop to (I don't know if this is the case here).

I mean, it's still pretty much ruins this woman's life because a lot of places tend to care if you have a criminal record. She might be able to get a pardon eventually, if Florida pardons felons.

Rick Scott is an Evangelical Republican (and I hear, corrupt), so I don't think he'll pardon her, and Obama doesn't pardon anyone...

Not strictly true...

[Dakini]

This is completely horrible in my opinion.

Yes, because holding a Lesbian accountable for Statutory Rape is horrible!

It's not even her being a lesbian. It's not like she's some sexual predator, she had a pre-existing relationship with the 15 year old and then she passed an arbitrary age barrier and suddenly this became illegal. If you want to have laws preventing 18 year olds from having sex with 15 year olds, you should totally allow an exception for "unless they were dating beforehand", because really, there isn't anything on the books in Florida preventing 17 year olds from having sex with 15 year olds (or 14 year olds for that matter) and it's asinine to act like anything should actually change.

[SatrapyofChloe]

You realize that you're saying you want to see child pornography in the case of the 15 year old, right?

It's not pornography if she consents to it.

[Ifreann]

Which is fucking ridiculous, though probably unlikely. The 15 years plus probation bit is probably mostly reserved for the most heinous offenses.

Granted, since this is a felony, this young women is prohibited from voting iirc, since Florida does that kind of bullshit.

So one less Democrat voting in a swing state woohoo.

Unless she's a Log Cabin Republican...

[Grave_n_idle]

But regardless - even if we took the bizarre view that it was only 'sex' if there was a penis in something... that doesn't mean lesbians are asexual. That's just not what it means.

Can you prove lesbians are sexuals?

Because if you can't..... that's proof they're asexual.

'Asexuality' specifically means a lack (or negligible level) of sexual attraction - not just lacking a penis.

[Dakini]

I imagine there would have to be a misdemeanor charge they could drop to (I don't know if this is the case here).

I mean, it's still pretty much ruins this woman's life because a lot of places tend to care if you have a criminal record. She might be able to get a pardon eventually, if Florida pardons felons.

Rick Scott is an Evangelical Republican (and I hear, corrupt), so I don't think he'll pardon her, and Obama doesn't pardon anyone, so I don't see an Executive Pardon happening.

I don't know how pardons work in the US. In Canada, you just wait 7 years and if you haven't committed additional crimes, you can fill out some forms, pay a fee and it gets wiped off your record. I think now they're having someone look at whether people deserve it, but it isn't an elected official (it might not even be just one individual).

[Grave_n_idle]

You realize that you're saying you want to see child pornography in the case of the 15 year old, right?

It's not pornography if she consents to it.

Once again, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[Kavanian States]

But regardless - even if we took the bizarre view that it was only 'sex' if there was a penis in something... that doesn't mean lesbians are asexual. That's just not what it means.

Can you prove lesbians are sexuals?

Because if you can't..... that's proof they're asexual.

Have you ever met a lesbian? I doubt it.

[Dakini]

Which is fucking ridiculous, though probably unlikely. The 15 years plus probation bit is probably mostly reserved for the most heinous offenses.

Granted, since this is a felony, this young women is prohibited from voting iirc, since Florida does that kind of bullshit.

So one less Democrat voting in a swing state woohoo.

I feel like that's the entire Republican strategy anymore. "If they can't vote, their party can't win!"

[Ifreann]

Rick Scott is an Evangelical Republican (and I hear, corrupt), so I don't think he'll pardon her, and Obama doesn't pardon anyone, so I don't see an Executive Pardon happening.

I don't know how pardons work in the US. In Canada, you just wait 7 years and if you haven't committed additional crimes, you can fill out some forms, pay a fee and it gets wiped off your record. I think now they're having someone look at whether people deserve it, but it isn't an elected official (it might not even be just one individual).

I can't say I'm familiar with this kind of thing, but I don't think it would be called a pardon.

[Cosara]

You realize that you're saying you want to see child pornography in the case of the 15 year old, right?

It's not pornography if she consents to it.

Yes it is.

[Eastfield Lodge]

So, in your view, is the law just simply because it's the law? This is a question several have tried to get you to address more than a few times.

No. My view is that the Law is just, regardless of it's status as a law. It's sensible to have ages of consent and Romeo and Juliet laws.

Are you talking about this particular law, or all laws in general?

[Cosara]

So one less Democrat voting in a swing state woohoo.

I feel like that's the entire Republican strategy anymore. "If they can't vote, their party can't win!"

Here starts the "It's a Republican Conspiracy" bullshit.

[Engerland]

She broke the law and got into trouble for it, what's the deal?

[Cosara]

No. My view is that the Law is just, regardless of it's status as a law. It's sensible to have ages of consent and Romeo and Juliet laws.

Are you talking about this particular law, or all laws in general?

Since I don't know about all laws, I'll keep it restrained to this particular law for now.

[SatrapyofChloe]

No, you can't.

You have to be, at the very least, able to be 'informed' about the specifics of a thing, and it's possible consequences, before you can be argued to give consent.

That's why you can only consent to medical treatment, for example, if you speak the language, or have someone translate it for you - understanding is considered the minimum requirement for consent.

Similarly, being impaired (drunk, drugged, mentally impaired) may be an obstacle in ascertaining informed consent.

Similarly, being below the age of consent.

You might not like it - but that's how it is.

Sex is instinctual, not informational. Just look at animals. Do they have a secret stash of Sexology manuals and tantric love books they study when humans aren't watching or filming them?


A law is informative because it's made up. Laws are just a social construct just like numbers.

Sex is not a social construct it's just an instinctive act, which some societies try to regulate for their own interests, through other social constructs like laws and so on.

But sex is older than society. Society, languages and numbers are all younger than sex, which is instinctive. Thus Sex is Adult and Mature, and Knows what it's doing. Instinctively.

But you can't understand societies, numbers or laws instinctively. You can only understand them by being informed about them. That's what makes them informational, instead of instinctive.

Instincts > Information. Both in age and wisdom.

Society is too young to have consent, Numbers are too young to have consent, laws are too young to have consent.

What truly has consent, is Instinct and Sex. Because these are both older than societies, laws or numbers.

Therefore by law of Maturity and Consent, Sex wins. And Sex is instinctively possible AT ANY AGE .

Whoever dictated we all consider solar years as actual years? What if I believe Jupiter is the greatest celestial body?

In which case you're not 36 (solar) years like you ignorantely assume, but barely 3 years (jupiter) years old. In which you are a sex offender.

Prepare for Jail, you Underaged Jupiterian Rapist You!! Mighty Jupiter Has Spoken!!

[Cosara]

She broke the law and got into trouble for it, what's the deal?

None, though there are some who count illegal (not legally recognized) consent as actual consent, even know for it to be considered consent, it HAS to be Legal.

[Risottia]

Exactly. But I am antisocial, therefore the laws of any society don't apply to me.

Wishful thinking will get you very far.

Since when does Society ignore or bypass Biology?

A lot of times.
Example, legal fiction in attributing personhood to humans who clearly lack the neurobiological prerequisites for it.

You can't pretend those girls penetrated each other sexually, despite your disgusting futanari fantasies.

You don't even know what a finger is. And YOU tell me I don't know biology?

So there's no "crime" to speak of. Neither girl was forced or abused or manipulated by the other,

Evidently you can show proof for your claim. I hereby invite (nay, DARE) you to witness at the trial. Should you fail to do so, you're clearly a lesbian-hating misogynist who wants to have one of them jailed innocent.

You unconscious unthinking illogical *****.

Go on, complete the sentence without hiding behind asterisks.
Or are you too scared of the OMG SCARY MODS enforcing rules you - as antisocial - refuse to recognize?

If unwanted babies or fatal or debilitating diseases are "not" a menace to society, and this doesn't make the age of consent for sexual relationships 1000, then your society is just a piece of shit.

[/quote]
Poor attempt at a strawman. 1/10.

[Dusk_Kittens]

Not at all. I say that consent is possible whether the law recognizes it as "legal consent" or not. I say that "consent" is not identical with "legal consent." "Legal consent" is wholly within the larger category of "consent," but not all "consent" need be "legal consent" to be regarded as "consent." If you honestly don't get this, draw a pair of Boolean circles or a Venn diagram and graphically illustrate what I've just said.

It has to be Legal Consent to be regarded as Consent by the Law. You cannot use "She gave consent, but it's not legal consent." as a defense in this case.

You either don't get it or are pretending not to get it.

I'm not at all saying that "She gave consent, but it's not legal consent" is a defense in the case. I'm pointing out that the law itself recognizes that there is such a thing as "consent" which is not legally recognized as "legal consent," which invalidates your repeated attempts to characterize what happened in this case as "rape." It is only "rape" in a statutory sense (do you even know what "statutory" means? hint: statute/ordinance/law), and not in any ordinary use of the term, and therefore referring to it as "rape" without the modifier "statutory" is an attempt to cloud the issue with emotively-charged language.

[Kavanian States]

She broke the law and got into trouble for it, what's the deal?

People are arguing that she should not be imprisoned because...freedom? I dunno!

[Sergey]

was she preying a minor when she was 17 and she was 15?

Yes. Not only should minors not be having sex, but she knew she'd be 18 long before her girlfriend was going to be 18.