Sex and Sexual Orientation of NSers

[The Damn Bees]

Laws only function by the consent of the populous... If the majority decides to become militant about something how do you plan on stopping them?

[Antares XII]

Again, I'm not saying anything about species. I'm not hurting you in any way. So stop saying that I am, because this is me calling you out on your bullshit.

Sure you are.

You're saying you're not human, but rather an 'intelligent construct.'

Thus, you reject the notion that you are human.

I reject the word 'human' and its current definition. If you want to be anal about it, you could say that I hold to the inherent idea of it, and just prefer not to be associated with the definition as commonly used. My bottom line from the beginning was not some imagined crusade against transgenders and humans in general, it was simply that an "Other" option in the poll wouldn't hurt anyone, and would give me an option I could select without being overtly discomfited.

[Page]

Laws only function by the consent of the populous... If the majority decides to become militant about something how do you plan on stopping them?

With molotov cocktails, black blocs, and steel-toed boots in necessary measure.

[The Damn Bees]

Then someone should jump the U.N.'s Applications for employment where it asks you for gender instead of sex... especially since its used to by a " Circle one " question where write in was not permitted. Come to think of it most federal applications ranging from Food stamps to grants request Gender while still providing only two options to pick from.

Hypothetical's are great, but even better is real world examples and hard facts, not speculation and opinion pieces.

[The Damn Bees]

Laws only function by the consent of the populous... If the majority decides to become militant about something how do you plan on stopping them?

With molotov cocktails, black blocs, and steel-toed boots in necessary measure.

\
That sounds more like the rebellion side than the organized government side...lol

[Ostroeuropa]

Then someone should jump the U.N.'s Applications for employment where it asks you for gender instead of sex... especially since its used to by a " Circle one " question where write in was not permitted. Come to think of it most federal applications ranging from Food stamps to grants request Gender while still providing only two options to pick from.

Hypothetical's are great, but even better is real world examples and hard facts, not speculation and opinion pieces.

The impropriety of forms is one of the major issues of the movement, I gather.
I consider the presence of both the race and the gender questions to be stupid, they should be removed.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Laws only function by the consent of the populous... If the majority decides to become militant about something how do you plan on stopping them?

The judiciary works well.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Sure you are.

You're saying you're not human, but rather an 'intelligent construct.'

Thus, you reject the notion that you are human.

I reject the word 'human' and its current definition. If you want to be anal about it, you could say that I hold to the inherent idea of it, and just prefer not to be associated with the definition as commonly used. My bottom line from the beginning was not some imagined crusade against transgenders and humans in general, it was simply that an "Other" option in the poll wouldn't hurt anyone, and would give me an option I could select without being overtly discomfited.

That's great.

Doesn't make you an intelligent construct.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Then someone should jump the U.N.'s Applications for employment where it asks you for gender instead of sex... especially since its used to by a " Circle one " question where write in was not permitted. Come to think of it most federal applications ranging from Food stamps to grants request Gender while still providing only two options to pick from.

Hypothetical's are great, but even better is real world examples and hard facts, not speculation and opinion pieces.

We are, I assure you. The limited lobbying strength we have is generally more focused on not being shot down in the street.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Then someone should jump the U.N.'s Applications for employment where it asks you for gender instead of sex... especially since its used to by a " Circle one " question where write in was not permitted. Come to think of it most federal applications ranging from Food stamps to grants request Gender while still providing only two options to pick from.

Hypothetical's are great, but even better is real world examples and hard facts, not speculation and opinion pieces.

The impropriety of forms is one of the major issues of the movement, I gather.
I consider the presence of both the race and the gender questions to be stupid, they should be removed.

Declaring "Equality!" does not make it so.

[The Damn Bees]

Then someone should jump the U.N.'s Applications for employment where it asks you for gender instead of sex... especially since its used to by a " Circle one " question where write in was not permitted. Come to think of it most federal applications ranging from Food stamps to grants request Gender while still providing only two options to pick from.

Hypothetical's are great, but even better is real world examples and hard facts, not speculation and opinion pieces.

The impropriety of forms is one of the major issues of the movement, I gather.
I consider the presence of both the race and the gender questions to be stupid, they should be removed.

Than how else would the various groups striving for work place, public assistance and whatever other item you wish to throw in the mix keep track as to whether or not said items above are being fair and equal?

If you removed Sex and/or gender from the applications you leave it entirely up to those in the interviewing process to make the determining decision without regards to ensuring male or female are being unfairly treated. In the career field companies would have no way of keeping track the number of males and females they had under their employ which would be counter to everything most equality groups are fighting for.

Its a matter of statistics not sex or gender. I only brought it up because papers and thesis' only at their very core speculative and not hard, observable fact. I can see and interact with an application or statistics sheet where a clear determination of the meanings can be found and consequences are felt from this interaction. Papers, however, have no bearing on how life operations regardless of how well written.

[The Steel Magnolia]

The impropriety of forms is one of the major issues of the movement, I gather.
I consider the presence of both the race and the gender questions to be stupid, they should be removed.

Than how else would the various groups striving for work place, public assistance and whatever other item you wish to throw in the mix keep track as to whether or not said items above are being fair and equal?

If you removed Sex and/or gender from the applications you leave it entirely up to those in the interviewing process to make the determining decision without regards to ensuring male or female are being unfairly treated. In the career field companies would have no way of keeping track the number of males and females they had under their employ which would be counter to everything most equality groups are fighting for.

Its a matter of statistics not sex or gender. I only brought it up because papers and thesis' only at their very core speculative and not hard, observable fact. I can see and interact with an application or statistics sheet where a clear determination of the meanings can be found and consequences are felt from this interaction. Papers, however, have no bearing on how life operations regardless of how well written.

Ostro is no egalitarian, and indeed his beliefs run counter to those of any and every group that fights for equal rights.

[The Damn Bees]

I'm trying not to draw conclusions from the statement. I'm only addressing the issue with the suggestion

[Ostroeuropa]

Than how else would the various groups striving for work place, public assistance and whatever other item you wish to throw in the mix keep track as to whether or not said items above are being fair and equal?

If you removed Sex and/or gender from the applications you leave it entirely up to those in the interviewing process to make the determining decision without regards to ensuring male or female are being unfairly treated. In the career field companies would have no way of keeping track the number of males and females they had under their employ which would be counter to everything most equality groups are fighting for.

Its a matter of statistics not sex or gender. I only brought it up because papers and thesis' only at their very core speculative and not hard, observable fact. I can see and interact with an application or statistics sheet where a clear determination of the meanings can be found and consequences are felt from this interaction. Papers, however, have no bearing on how life operations regardless of how well written.

Ostro is no egalitarian, and indeed his beliefs run counter to those of any and every group that fights for equal rights.

I actually am an egalitarian, and I think your beliefs run counter to every group you aren't a part of.

[The Damn Bees]

BEE'S!

[Antares XII]

I reject the word 'human' and its current definition. If you want to be anal about it, you could say that I hold to the inherent idea of it, and just prefer not to be associated with the definition as commonly used. My bottom line from the beginning was not some imagined crusade against transgenders and humans in general, it was simply that an "Other" option in the poll wouldn't hurt anyone, and would give me an option I could select without being overtly discomfited.

That's great.

Doesn't make you an intelligent construct.

in·tel·li·gent
adjective /inˈtelijənt/ 

1.Having or showing intelligence, esp. of a high level
- Annabelle is intelligent and hardworking
- an intelligent guess

2.(of a device, machine, or building) Able to vary its state or action in response to varying situations, varying requirements, and past experience

3.(esp. of a computer terminal) Incorporating a microprocessor and having its own processing capability
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web definitions

having the capacity for thought and reason especially to a high degree; "is there intelligent life in the universe?"; "an intelligent question"

endowed with the capacity to reason
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

(intelligently) in an intelligent manner; "she acted intelligently in this difficult situation"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

(intelligence) the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Intelligence is an umbrella term describing a property of the mind including related abilities, such as the capacities for abstract thought, understanding, communication, reasoning, learning, learning from past experiences, planning, and problem solving.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent



con·struct
noun /ˈkänˌstrəkt/  
constructs, plural

1.An idea or theory containing various conceptual elements, typically one considered to be subjective and not based on empirical evidence
- history is largely an ideological construct
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web definitions

concept: an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

A construct in the philosophy of science is an ideal object, where the existence of the thing may be said to depend upon a subject's mind. This, as opposed to a "real" object, where existence does not seem to depend on the existence of a mind.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_(philosophy_of_science)


So tell me why, exactly, I am not an intelligent construct?

[Hobbeebia]

Burn...

[Quelesh]

Denying part of who you are is not going to eliminate any problems.

It's not denying. It's trying to get people to stop thinking of it exclusively as something physical. I.e. not worrying about the tools with which the job is being done, but the reason the job is being done.

What is sex if not physical?

Sex is very important to some people, and not at all important to others, and I think either way is fine and no one particularly needs to change in this regard.

Assexual

Does that mean you like buttsex?

It's offensive to claim that I can't claim to be what I am, which is a collection of experiences, sensory perceptions, and ideas, housed within a biological computer in a biological machine body.

Yeah see but I don't care.

Humanity is not a social construct. You are human, end of.

This is utterly distinct from gender, which only requires identification and nothing more.

I don't think that Antares is saying that he's not human. He seems, from what I've read so far, to be saying that humans are intelligent biological machines. Which I think is both basically true and irrelevant in this context.

(Edit: After reading more, it seems that he's saying that a "human" is the physical flesh, the bits of brain matter and other tissue, made of atoms, and that he thinks that he himself is something separate from the physical body. I don't think that's necessarily transphobic, though I do think it's silly, and demonstrably false, as the alteration of the brain alters the thoughts, and the destruction of the brain causes the thoughts to cease. It would be less silly, I think, to argue for the lack of a meaningful categorical difference between humans and non-humans.)

I don't identify as the housing, the fleshy biological bits that hold the real me. I'm the intelligent thought construct housed within.

The thoughts cannot exist without the fleshy bits, and are indeed utterly dependent upon them. This is not, however, the "is consciousness reliant upon the body" thread.

[Antares XII]

It's not denying. It's trying to get people to stop thinking of it exclusively as something physical. I.e. not worrying about the tools with which the job is being done, but the reason the job is being done.

What is sex if not physical?

Sex is very important to some people, and not at all important to others, and I think either way is fine and no one particularly needs to change in this regard.

Assexual

Does that mean you like buttsex?

Yeah see but I don't care.

Humanity is not a social construct. You are human, end of.

This is utterly distinct from gender, which only requires identification and nothing more.

I don't think that Antares is saying that he's not human. He seems, from what I've read so far, to be saying that humans are intelligent biological machines. Which I think is both basically true and irrelevant in this context.

(Edit: After reading more, it seems that he's saying that a "human" is the physical flesh, the bits of brain matter and other tissue, made of atoms, and that he thinks that he himself is something separate from the physical body. I don't think that's necessarily transphobic, though I do think it's silly, and demonstrably false, as the alteration of the brain alters the thoughts, and the destruction of the brain causes the thoughts to cease. It would be less silly, I think, to argue for the lack of a meaningful categorical difference between humans and non-humans.)

I don't identify as the housing, the fleshy biological bits that hold the real me. I'm the intelligent thought construct housed within.

The thoughts cannot exist without the fleshy bits, and are indeed utterly dependent upon them. This is not, however, the "is consciousness reliant upon the body" thread.

Actually, I'm just saying that I see my self as the nonphysical, intangible thoughts in my head, rather than the physical, tangible body that houses them and, yes, makes them possible, at least in part. I do not define myself as who I am by my physical body, but rather by the ideas and thoughts I think. That being said, my entire point all along was that the poll options are a bit constrictive and too tightly definitive by my standards, it wouldn't hurt to see an "Other" option, and that would allow me to participate in the poll without having to misrepresent myself based on preconceived ideas propogated by society.

[Kharsus]

I see what Antares is getting at. His thinking is in line with a type of thinking which I share. Ever heard of something called 'Transhumanism?' The Trans in Transhumanism is short for transitional, because it is a movement that seeks to transition, through the use of science and medical technology, to a posthuman state, one in which we have used said technology and advances to improve the human condition beyond what is naturally possible. I think it's the logical next step in evolution. No sickness, no biological imperatives, near-immortality. Of course this would bring about massive changes in human society and thinking, as well as philosophy. But, that's why it's transitional, Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Immoren]

Needs more beer and pretzels

Too German.

What good is a sausagefest without beer and pretzels?

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

So basically you're living your entire life with the sole intent of being a dick to trans people so you can assuage your technology fetish.

Good job.

That's harsh. I've tried to explain to you that I am serious about my claims, and I am. I haven't said word one about trans people, because you know what? I don't have anything against it. You are who you are, and good on you for being socially progressive in that aspect. Now why in hell can't I believe what I believe? It has nothing to do with who you are. Stop telling me what to do and what to believe. God damn.

Your claims are unmitigated bullshit. Species is not a societal construct, gender is.

[Antares XII]

That's harsh. I've tried to explain to you that I am serious about my claims, and I am. I haven't said word one about trans people, because you know what? I don't have anything against it. You are who you are, and good on you for being socially progressive in that aspect. Now why in hell can't I believe what I believe? It has nothing to do with who you are. Stop telling me what to do and what to believe. God damn.

Your claims are unmitigated bullshit. Species is not a societal construct, gender is.

Sticks and stones. I was fortunate enough to have a kind soul remind me of that. So you can take your unfounded, invalid, unprovable, and selfconflicting opinions and abscond, or continue to be trounced by logical arguments.

In the meantime, I'll be here, waiting and hoping to see that "Other" option added to the poll. I'd like to see who else falls under unconventional affiliations.

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

Your claims are unmitigated bullshit. Species is not a societal construct, gender is.

Sticks and stones. I was fortunate enough to have a kind soul remind me of that. So you can take your unfounded, invalid, unprovable, and selfconflicting opinions and abscond, or continue to be trounced by logical arguments.

In the meantime, I'll be here, waiting and hoping to see that "Other" option added to the poll. I'd like to see who else falls under unconventional affiliations.

You've already been shown that your supposed belief that your body is just a shelll and youre not really human is bullshit.

[Eucadian Federation]

So ummm... I'm straight male (16 yrs old)

But I'm becoming Bi-Curious... I've always wondered ya know.