Words and Gender: Does Gender Differentiation Matter?

[Mirage]

1) I already specified lifting weights in this particular case.

Where did you specify that? And why are we prioritizing lifting weights over other forms of strength?

2) That is why i said the training and food should be same and for comparability, let us assume that both were of similar build before their training began.

If they are actually of comparable build - similar proportions, similar musculature, etc. - then odds are very good that they will be able to lift SIMILAR amounts of weight. Duh. Do you think men are magic or something? Muscles and tendons are muscles and tendons. If they are the same size and arranged the same way, they will work the same way. That's the point. You can make generalizations, like "men are more likely to be able to reach the highest shelf than women," but it's patently obvious that a 6' tall man is not more capable of reaching the high shelf than a 6' tall woman. The relevant factor isn't gender there, it's height, and the fact that men are more likely to be tall says nothing about the height of an individual woman.

3) Doesn't mean there is no difference.

...um, yes, yes it does. If a cop never has to lift weights to be a cop, whether or not she is good at lifting weights makes no difference to her ability as a cop.

1) Another poster asked the same thing. I don't bother replying to everyone specifically about the same thing. I said it was an example.

2) Hormones and males tend to be naturally stronger than females. That is a fact. And i said similar before training. That makes a difference.

3) I would want a fireman to be somewhat strong, wouldn't you ? And naturally men tend to be stronger so ofcourse i am going to lean more towards employing men than women. (There might be exceptions ofcourse)

[The Nihilistic view]

Ok answer me this little question.

Are you attracted more to boy's or girl's?

Once again, if your desire to fuck people is relevant to their JOB TITLE - you know, the thing we're discussing here in this thread? - and they are not a sex worker, something is very, very wrong.

If you answer the question you will find out my point.

[Land of Tob]

We don't all have time to waste during the day making sure we are gender neutral like you my feminist unemployed keyboard warrior friend.

And two minutes is too much time for you? Oh, woe is me, I can't even spare a minute on Google!

Ok answer me this little question.

Are you attracted more to boy's or girl's?

... how is this in any way relevant?

We as men can't compete in the same realm as women! I want to be an actress! Oh no but I can't!
What are you talking about? It doesn't matter! What is your problem?

If you want to call yourself an actress, that's fine with me. *shrug*

Apparently you want to be male, since you want to be called actor.

[Individuality-ness]

And two minutes is too much time for you? Oh, woe is me, I can't even spare a minute on Google!


... how is this in any way relevant?


If you want to call yourself an actress, that's fine with me. *shrug*

Apparently you want to be male, since you want to be called actor.

... what the fucking hell?

[The Steel Magnolia]

So after a long and tiresome debate we have come to the conclusion that Gender Differentiation does matter. For those unconvinced by the arguments thus far presented i give you the humble bra.

(Image)

I wonder why it is important to give a bra to the right gender?

I don't know.

It could, possibly, be important to give it to someone of the right sex, but that has nothing to do with gender.

Furthermore, it seems even easier just to give bras to anyone who wants one.

[Land of Tob]

What's the point of this? This utterly doesn't make any sense at all!
These are words that describe. Why have everything gender neutral? It's not sexist! I can't even.. oh man.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Where did you specify that? And why are we prioritizing lifting weights over other forms of strength?



If they are actually of comparable build - similar proportions, similar musculature, etc. - then odds are very good that they will be able to lift SIMILAR amounts of weight. Duh. Do you think men are magic or something? Muscles and tendons are muscles and tendons. If they are the same size and arranged the same way, they will work the same way. That's the point. You can make generalizations, like "men are more likely to be able to reach the highest shelf than women," but it's patently obvious that a 6' tall man is not more capable of reaching the high shelf than a 6' tall woman. The relevant factor isn't gender there, it's height, and the fact that men are more likely to be tall says nothing about the height of an individual woman.



...um, yes, yes it does. If a cop never has to lift weights to be a cop, whether or not she is good at lifting weights makes no difference to her ability as a cop.

1) Another poster asked the same thing. I don't bother replying to everyone specifically about the same thing. I said it was an example.

2) Hormones and males tend to be naturally stronger than females. That is a fact. And i said similar before training. That makes a difference.

3) I would want a fireman to be somewhat strong, wouldn't you ? And naturally men tend to be stronger so ofcourse i am going to lean more towards employing men than women. (There might be exceptions ofcourse)

Literally nothing you said here is true.

[Central Slavia]

Because the gender binary is a fact of life.

No it's not. Gender is not binary. Example: see those who ID themselves as androgynous.

And there are people that ID themselves as dragons. It changes nothing about objective reality, and suggesting not to use the word "human" to describe people because of it would be just as stupid.

Also . . . a female can't aspire to be an actor in the same way a male can't aspire to be an actress, and an orange can't aspire to be Golden Delicious. It has nothing to do with equality at all.

Why not?

The same reason I can't aspire to be Henri Bessemer, or Nikola Tesla - because it contradicts reality.

[The Nihilistic view]

We don't all have time to waste during the day making sure we are gender neutral like you my feminist unemployed keyboard warrior friend.

And two minutes is too much time for you? Oh, woe is me, I can't even spare a minute on Google!

Ok answer me this little question.

Are you attracted more to boy's or girl's?

... how is this in any way relevant?

We as men can't compete in the same realm as women! I want to be an actress! Oh no but I can't!
What are you talking about? It doesn't matter! What is your problem?

If you want to call yourself an actress, that's fine with me. *shrug*

1) I don't carry a pocket googleator around with me.
2) You will find out its relevance if you answer the question truthfully.

[Lunalia]

When I am reading a book.... "The actor walked into the room" gives me a different mental image than "the actress walked into the room." Difference meaning that before the author starts describing the actor or actress, I already have the image of which gender the character is fixed into my head.

Gender specific titles/roles are useful for description, as long as they MEAN the same thing, and the only difference between them is gender.

Have you ever considered saying... female actor?

Doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "actor" or "actress"
Also (this is coming to light to me now, because I'm writing my first ever story that I may find worthy of publishing some day) there are certain number of words in stories that publishers will take one look at and go "this is too long to publish with an unknown author."

If you're writing a story about acting, and you keep having to introduce new actors and actresses, "the male actor" and "the female actor" would get very old, and also eat up word counts. So.... clunky adjective use to specify gender, or one word which specifies gender? I know which one I would prefer.

[Mirage]

Literally nothing you said here is true.

Care to back it up ?

[Seperates]

I would want a fireman to be somewhat strong, wouldn't you ? And naturally men tend to be stronger so ofcourse i am going to lean more towards employing men than women. (There might be exceptions ofcourse)

Then have an established minimum amount that needs to be able to be lifted and don't change it. It's an un-biased test of strength because it establishes strength regardless of gender. Boom, problem solved.

You just have it be a minimum, not anything insane.

[Rocopurr]

What's the point of this? This utterly doesn't make any sense at all!
These are words that describe. Why have everything gender neutral? It's not sexist! I can't even.. oh man.

Because gender neutral words can make things easier and are useful for people who don't identify as male or female.

[The Nihilistic view]

And two minutes is too much time for you? Oh, woe is me, I can't even spare a minute on Google!


... how is this in any way relevant?


If you want to call yourself an actress, that's fine with me. *shrug*

Apparently you want to be male, since you want to be called actor.

How did this escape my notice!

[The Steel Magnolia]

Literally nothing you said here is true.

Care to back it up ?

[1999] 3 S.C.R. 3; 1999 SCC 652

[The Steel Magnolia]

No it's not. Gender is not binary. Example: see those who ID themselves as androgynous.

And there are people that ID themselves as dragons. It changes nothing about objective reality, and suggesting not to use the word "human" to describe people because of it would be just as stupid.

Why not?

The same reason I can't aspire to be Henri Bessemer, or Nikola Tesla - because it contradicts reality.

Species is not a social construct.


Gender is.

[Rocopurr]

Have you ever considered saying... female actor?

Doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "actor" or "actress"
Also (this is coming to light to me now, because I'm writing my first ever story that I may find worthy of publishing some day) there are certain number of words in stories that publishers will take one look at and go "this is too long to publish with an unknown author."

If you're writing a story about acting, and you keep having to introduce new actors and actresses, "the male actor" and "the female actor" would get very old, and also eat up word counts.

And rolling off to tongue well or not matters because?

Introduce them by their name then.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Where did you specify that? And why are we prioritizing lifting weights over other forms of strength?



If they are actually of comparable build - similar proportions, similar musculature, etc. - then odds are very good that they will be able to lift SIMILAR amounts of weight. Duh. Do you think men are magic or something? Muscles and tendons are muscles and tendons. If they are the same size and arranged the same way, they will work the same way. That's the point. You can make generalizations, like "men are more likely to be able to reach the highest shelf than women," but it's patently obvious that a 6' tall man is not more capable of reaching the high shelf than a 6' tall woman. The relevant factor isn't gender there, it's height, and the fact that men are more likely to be tall says nothing about the height of an individual woman.



...um, yes, yes it does. If a cop never has to lift weights to be a cop, whether or not she is good at lifting weights makes no difference to her ability as a cop.

1) Another poster asked the same thing. I don't bother replying to everyone specifically about the same thing. I said it was an example.

2) Hormones and males tend to be naturally stronger than females. That is a fact. And i said similar before training. That makes a difference.

3) I would want a fireman to be somewhat strong, wouldn't you ? And naturally men tend to be stronger so ofcourse i am going to lean more towards employing men than women. (There might be exceptions ofcourse)

Why not lean towards employing strong people?

I mean, do you really think the way we hire firefighters is by just having them say "hey, I'm a dude, you should hire me"? They have to pass tests, which specifically include testing them on their ability to carry a human-sized weight out of a building. Why would you need to distinguish between male people who passed that test and female people who passed that test?

[Land of Tob]

What's the point of this? This utterly doesn't make any sense at all!
These are words that describe. Why have everything gender neutral? It's not sexist! I can't even.. oh man.

Because gender neutral words can make things easier and are useful for people who don't identify as male or female.

So just because, let's say 1 or 2% of the people you're going to change the structure of a language?
By the way, it's not making things easier.
It makes it way more complicated.

[Individuality-ness]

No it's not. Gender is not binary. Example: see those who ID themselves as androgynous.

And there are people that ID themselves as dragons. It changes nothing about objective reality, and suggesting not to use the word "human" to describe people because of it would be just as stupid.

So are you saying that genderqueer is not a thing?

Why not?

The same reason I can't aspire to be Henri Bessemer, or Nikola Tesla - because it contradicts reality.

... that's not the same thing. False equivalence.

And two minutes is too much time for you? Oh, woe is me, I can't even spare a minute on Google!


... how is this in any way relevant?

1) I don't carry a pocket googleator around with me.
2) You will find out its relevance if you answer the question truthfully.

You don't own a smartphone, an iPod, a laptop? What?

And no, the question is not relevant AT ALL. Stop attempting to use personal attacks.

[Lunalia]

Doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "actor" or "actress"
Also (this is coming to light to me now, because I'm writing my first ever story that I may find worthy of publishing some day) there are certain number of words in stories that publishers will take one look at and go "this is too long to publish with an unknown author."

If you're writing a story about acting, and you keep having to introduce new actors and actresses, "the male actor" and "the female actor" would get very old, and also eat up word counts.

And rolling off to tongue well or not matters because?

Introduce them by their name then.

Meet my best friend Sandy. Is Sandy a boy or a girl?

It matters because one is easy to read, and the other is not. Which is kinda important when you're writing something that you want other people to like to read.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Because gender neutral words can make things easier and are useful for people who don't identify as male or female.

So just because, let's say 1 or 2% of the people you're going to change the structure of a language?
By the way, it's not making things easier.
It makes it way more complicated.

Hogar smash!

[Central Slavia]

Where did you specify that? And why are we prioritizing lifting weights over other forms of strength?



If they are actually of comparable build - similar proportions, similar musculature, etc. - then odds are very good that they will be able to lift SIMILAR amounts of weight. Duh. Do you think men are magic or something? Muscles and tendons are muscles and tendons. If they are the same size and arranged the same way, they will work the same way. That's the point. You can make generalizations, like "men are more likely to be able to reach the highest shelf than women," but it's patently obvious that a 6' tall man is not more capable of reaching the high shelf than a 6' tall woman. The relevant factor isn't gender there, it's height, and the fact that men are more likely to be tall says nothing about the height of an individual woman.



...um, yes, yes it does. If a cop never has to lift weights to be a cop, whether or not she is good at lifting weights makes no difference to her ability as a cop.

1) Another poster asked the same thing. I don't bother replying to everyone specifically about the same thing. I said it was an example.

2) Hormones and males tend to be naturally stronger than females. That is a fact. And i said similar before training. That makes a difference.

3) I would want a fireman to be somewhat strong, wouldn't you ? And naturally men tend to be stronger so ofcourse i am going to lean more towards employing men than women. (There might be exceptions ofcourse)

This is stupid and it detracts from our side of the argument

2) I have no idea what you mean. Hormones *and* males? Even if you said hormones in males, it's stupid - males and females have different concentrations of certain hormones, on average, but that's a different thing. Learn biology.

3) It's true that men have higher upper body strength, and it's true that's a great thing for firemen. There's also a great way to ensure that the firemen you pick are adequate for the task regardless of gender - it's called entrance tests. Once someone is strong enough to do the job, it doesn't matter what gender they are - it's just that on average more men will be than women from the same population.

[The Steel Magnolia]

And rolling off to tongue well or not matters because?

Introduce them by their name then.

Meet my best friend Sandy. Is Sandy a boy or a girl?

Why does it matter?

[Land of Tob]

.. that's not the same thing. False equivalence.

Obviously it never is the same thing if it can destroy your argument.