Are homosexuals really born that way?

[Mavorpen]

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is.

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Human sexual orientation most likely exists as a continuum from solely heterosexual to solely homosexual. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified homosexuality as a sexual orientation or expression and not a mental disorder.12 The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11

All of those quotes are from my three sources. I even highlighted important points in red so that you don't have to stress yourself with the difficult action of actually reading and comprehending sources.

Now, do you STILL want to pretend as though you've actually read them, despite making claims that are demonstrably false? Stop. Lying.

How did they test it out again ? I mean, anyone can simply say anything.

See, that's the thing. In order to determine how they tested these things, you actually need to read. I know, that's a novel concept, right?

[Norstal]

I would only choose to have sex with a woman if that is what you are asking.

So why can't you have sex with a man if you had the choice?

If you meet this really great guy that is the woman of your dreams and you can't find any actual woman that fulfills this, what's preventing you from having sex with him?

[Mirage]

1) Why do you believe the opposite case to be true when there is no proof for that either.

I believe the opposite case because there is proof for it. I am an example of such proof. You are too. Everyone is.

2) Doesn't mean that it is true. It could be false too.

It could be, but the chances of that being the case are next to nonexistent at this point.

3) who think they did not choose it.

Again, we're going with the millions of delusional individuals versus you being right scenario. It is safe to say that we know ourselves better than you do, and that it is more likely that millions have not just tricked themselves into being attracted to members of the same sex somehow than it is that they have.

1) Wrong
2) No different from what i believe.
3) "Earth is flat"

[Woodstead]

I would say yes- even closet homosexuals, which you probably wouldn't identify as homosexuals. The self-labelling, to an extent, is a choice, and I guess an openness to exploration for some helps determine. However, the actual possible causes of sexual and romantic orientation, I believe are not a choice. Then again, I believe that maybe even 'straight' people may have a minor and undiscovered flexibility for the same sex.

[Mirage]

I would only choose to have sex with a woman if that is what you are asking.

So why can't you have sex with a man if you had the choice?

If you meet this really great guy that is the woman of your dreams and you can't find any actual woman that fulfills this, what's preventing you from having sex with him?

Only, if that happens, that man would be a woman. And "preferences". I would not have sex with just anyone including those of the opposite gender.

[St George]

Because there is nothing in there that rules out choice as a possibility nor state exactly what causes it.

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is.

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Human sexual orientation most likely exists as a continuum from solely heterosexual to solely homosexual. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified homosexuality as a sexual orientation or expression and not a mental disorder.12 The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11

All of those quotes are from my three sources. I even highlighted important points in red so that you don't have to stress yourself with the difficult action of actually reading and comprehending sources.

Now, do you STILL want to pretend as though you've actually read them, despite making claims that are demonstrably false? Stop. Lying.

Oh Marv, that was ASB-esque.

[Mirage]

No it is
"Why do you think people find it tasty?"
"Because they chose to find it tasty"
"Why do you think that, what evidence do you have that they chose to find it tasty"
"Because i think that they chose to"
"But why do you think that"
"Because it makes sense"
"But why do you think it makes sense, please provide some evidence that it makes sense they chose to find it tasty."

Easy one.

Nothing to contradict that theory.

Ofcourse this is going by we have the ability to "choose" in the first place.

[Mavorpen]

Oh Marv, that was ASB-esque.

The funny part? He then BACKPEDALED and decided to put on his tin-foil hat screaming, "YEAH, BUT WHAT IF THE SCIENTISTS ARE LYING, AND SCIENCE IS RUN BY LIZARD-MEN BENT ON DESTROYING SOCIETY!?!?!?!111ONEONE!!!?!"

It's fucking pathetic.

[Neutraligon]

No it is
"Why do you think people find it tasty?"
"Because they chose to find it tasty"
"Why do you think that, what evidence do you have that they chose to find it tasty"
"Because i think that they chose to"
"But why do you think that"
"Because it makes sense"
"But why do you think it makes sense, please provide some evidence that it makes sense they chose to find it tasty."

Easy one.

Nothing to contradict that theory.

Ofcourse this is going by we have the ability to "choose" in the first place.

Except of course the evidence that it is biological (genes, pre-natal, that sort of thing) that strongly suggests that people don't actively choose whom they are attracted to. Also, because there is no evidence to prove me wrong(there is but lets go with it for a sec) is not evidence that proves you right. At least have something that backs up your claim to it being a choice.

[St George]

Oh Marv, that was ASB-esque.

The funny part? He then BACKPEDALED and decided to put on his tin-foil hat screaming, "YEAH, BUT WHAT IF THE SCIENTISTS ARE LYING, AND SCIENCE IS RUN BY LIZARD-MEN BENT ON DESTROYING SOCIETY!?!?!?!111ONEONE!!!?!"

It's fucking pathetic.

Wow.

[Neutraligon]

The funny part? He then BACKPEDALED and decided to put on his tin-foil hat screaming, "YEAH, BUT WHAT IF THE SCIENTISTS ARE LYING, AND SCIENCE IS RUN BY LIZARD-MEN BENT ON DESTROYING SOCIETY!?!?!?!111ONEONE!!!?!"

It's fucking pathetic.

Wow.

Oh no it's better than that. He believes it is so because he believes it is so and somehow there is no proof showing him wrong. He has failed completely to provide proof showing he is right, and has now run away.

[St George]

Wow.

Oh no it's better than that. He believes it is so because he believes it is so and somehow there is no proof showing him wrong. He has failed completely to provide proof showing he is right, and has now run away.

My head hurts.

[Norstal]

So why can't you have sex with a man if you had the choice?

If you meet this really great guy that is the woman of your dreams and you can't find any actual woman that fulfills this, what's preventing you from having sex with him?

Only, if that happens, that man would be a woman. And "preferences". I would not have sex with just anyone including those of the opposite gender.

No. What I am asking is what's preventing you from having sex with a man if he meets every criteria you want to find in a woman except for genitals?

If you find it disgusting or don't know, then you never had a choice.

If you would, then you're bi.

[Neutraligon]

Only, if that happens, that man would be a woman. And "preferences". I would not have sex with just anyone including those of the opposite gender.

No. What I am asking is what's preventing you from having sex with a man if he meets every criteria you want to find in a woman except for genitals?

If you find it disgusting or don't know, then you never had a choice.

If you would, then you're bi.

or pan.

[Mirage]

Except of course the evidence that it is biological (genes, pre-natal, that sort of thing) that strongly suggests that people don't actively choose whom they are attracted to. Also, because there is no evidence to prove me wrong(there is but lets go with it for a sec) is not evidence that proves you right. At least have something that backs up your claim to it being a choice.

Show me evidence or proof which leaves no room for choice to even be a factor and i will agree with you. What you have are theories nothing more, same like me. I don't claim it to be a choice, i claim to believe it to be.

Now i could consider this scenario. Everything we do is controlled by our nervous system right ? It is biological. Action equals reaction and if you deny the existence of soul or something similar, that leaves everything we do to be basically due to chemical reactions. Then i could see it being not a choice. But that means nothing is as in we don't have control over any of our actions.

[Mirage]

Only, if that happens, that man would be a woman. And "preferences". I would not have sex with just anyone including those of the opposite gender.

No. What I am asking is what's preventing you from having sex with a man if he meets every criteria you want to find in a woman except for genitals?

If you find it disgusting or don't know, then you never had a choice.

If you would, then you're bi.

What if i consider the genitals to be a factor too ?

[St George]

No. What I am asking is what's preventing you from having sex with a man if he meets every criteria you want to find in a woman except for genitals?

If you find it disgusting or don't know, then you never had a choice.

If you would, then you're bi.

or pan.

Or... let's throw out this silly black-grey-white idea of sexuality and accept that one can be degrees of straight or gay depending on romantic or sexual outlook or experiences.

[Mavorpen]

Show me evidence or proof which leaves no room for choice to even be a factor and i will agree with you. What you have are theories nothing more, same like me. I don't claim it to be a choice, i claim to believe it to be.

Still lying, huh?

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is.

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Human sexual orientation most likely exists as a continuum from solely heterosexual to solely homosexual. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified homosexuality as a sexual orientation or expression and not a mental disorder.12 The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11

All of those quotes are from my three sources. I even highlighted important points in red so that you don't have to stress yourself with the difficult action of actually reading and comprehending sources.

Now, do you STILL want to pretend as though you've actually read them, despite making claims that are demonstrably false? Stop. Lying.

[Mirage]

...

Once, you have something that contradicts what i said, come back.

[Mavorpen]

No. What I am asking is what's preventing you from having sex with a man if he meets every criteria you want to find in a woman except for genitals?

If you find it disgusting or don't know, then you never had a choice.

If you would, then you're bi.

What if i consider the genitals to be a factor too ?

Genitals reacting to certain stimuli has nothing to do with, "I choose to be sexually attracted to X." It is purely the result of your nervous system signaling certain parts of the body to react in certain ways.

[Neutraligon]

Except of course the evidence that it is biological (genes, pre-natal, that sort of thing) that strongly suggests that people don't actively choose whom they are attracted to. Also, because there is no evidence to prove me wrong(there is but lets go with it for a sec) is not evidence that proves you right. At least have something that backs up your claim to it being a choice.

Show me evidence or proof which leaves no room for choice to even be a factor and i will agree with you. What you have are theories nothing more, same like me. I don't claim it to be a choice, i claim to believe it to be.

Now i could consider this scenario. Everything we do is controlled by our nervous system right ? It is biological. Action equals reaction and if you deny the existence of soul or something similar, that leaves everything we do to be basically due to chemical reactions. Then i could see it being not a choice. But that means nothing is as in we don't have control over any of our actions.

Why should we, you are the one who claimed it was a choice (even if you left room for other possibilities), you are the one who should back up and provide proof that it is a choice rather than claiming it is our job to prove it is not a choice. You are making as much a claim as we are, but we have provided proof that it is biological and inborn while you have failed to provide any proof that it is not, nor have you provided any proof positive that it is a choice. You claim to believe it is a choice and I want to know why you believe it is a choice, what evidence do you have to back up the belief that it is a choice. Prove to me that there isn't a teapot in the middle of mars, that is essentially what you are saying.

[Mavorpen]

...

Once, you have something that contradicts what i said, come back.

Sure. Oh look, here it is. Again.

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is.

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Human sexual orientation most likely exists as a continuum from solely heterosexual to solely homosexual. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified homosexuality as a sexual orientation or expression and not a mental disorder.12 The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11

All of those quotes are from my three sources. I even highlighted important points in red so that you don't have to stress yourself with the difficult action of actually reading and comprehending sources.

Now, do you STILL want to pretend as though you've actually read them, despite making claims that are demonstrably false? Stop. Lying.

[Norstal]

No. What I am asking is what's preventing you from having sex with a man if he meets every criteria you want to find in a woman except for genitals?

If you find it disgusting or don't know, then you never had a choice.

If you would, then you're bi.

What if i consider the genitals to be a factor too ?

Then you never had a choice.

[Neutraligon]

What if i consider the genitals to be a factor too ?

Then you never had a choice.

I think this deserves the biggest I can give...seriously.

[Mavorpen]

Then you never had a choice.

I think this deserves the biggest I can give...seriously.

It's like asking, "WHAT IF I CONSIDER THE HEART TO BE A FACTOR IN HEART ATTACKS!?!?!111" as if you CHOOSE how your heart reacts to certain stimuli.