Are homosexuals really born that way?

[Euroslavia]

Which isn't what you said. You stated that you SAID that you read it. You didn't. You said that you skimmed it. The two words aren't synonymous and they represent two different meanings.

I... really ?

Next time, you might not want to admit that you only 'skimmed' a source... you'll be eaten alive.

[Norstal]

There's a difference between debating and a bunch of stubborn people having a recurring argument that gets nobody anywhere in the discussion.

Of course it goes no where. Do you think a debate is a football match where there's a winner and goes on for a limited time?

The point of debating is not to convince the arguers or debaters. The point for is to forge the best argument so that spectators and lurkers get convinced by it.

And you are currently making the shittiest arguments in this thread because you spam.

[Lordieth]

People on the internet.

I have a bridge on mars to sell you for $500.

http://www.mivgo.com/2010-11/stone-bridge-on-mars/

Found a source for that, at least.

[Azaflaza]

You can, you just chose not to. There's a difference.

OK, I can, but it will have massive negative effects on my life as well as alienating me from those I love and care for.

Well there is a bit of a loophole. People who you care about and whose opinion you value can be taken on board if you wish to live your life pleasing them because you care about them.

Get it? Your doing it because you want to not because someone is making you therefore you are living your own life.

[Mirage]

No I asked you for the reason you felt the way you did, with evidence to back it up. We are asking you what is the reason you feel the way you do beyond i feel that way because I feel that way. There are many possible causes, some of which have actual scientific backing. Basically you are saying I formed an opinion without any proof whatsoever and by god I will hold to that opinion despite evidence to the contrary.

I already gave reasons for believing in what i do.

And there is no evidence to the contrary. How did someone rule out the possibility of choice having any role in it again ?

[Mavorpen]

2) What "he" gave as evidence. Doesn't mean it is.

Still waiting for you to explain why.

[Neutraligon]

I... really ?

Next time, you might not want to admit that you only 'skimmed' a source... you'll be eaten alive.

Tasty, but needs a bit (a lot) or sauce.

[CATACOM]

i guess this thread is how to turn NSForum into the YouTube comment section

[Norstal]

No I asked you for the reason you felt the way you did, with evidence to back it up. We are asking you what is the reason you feel the way you do beyond i feel that way because I feel that way. There are many possible causes, some of which have actual scientific backing. Basically you are saying I formed an opinion without any proof whatsoever and by god I will hold to that opinion despite evidence to the contrary.

I already gave reasons for believing in what i do.

And there is no evidence to the contrary. How did someone rule out the possibility of choice having any role in it again ?

Did you have a choice for your orientation?

[Azaflaza]

There's a difference between debating and a bunch of stubborn people having a recurring argument that gets nobody anywhere in the discussion.

Of course it goes no where. Do you think a debate is a football match where there's a winner and goes on for a limited time?

The point of debating is not to convince the arguers or debaters. The point for is to forge the best argument so that spectators and lurkers get convinced by it.

And you are currently making the shittiest arguments in this thread because you spam.

Yes but every one is too fixed on their own opinions to be convinced by anyone else so we should all just agree to disagree and go home.
What do you mean I ...spam?

[Mirage]

2) What "he" gave as evidence. Doesn't mean it is.

Still waiting for you to explain why.

Because there is nothing in there that rules out choice as a possibility nor state exactly what causes it.

[Ovisterra]

OK, I can, but it will have massive negative effects on my life as well as alienating me from those I love and care for.

Well there is a bit of a loophole. People who you care about and whose opinion you value can be taken on board if you wish to live your life pleasing them because you care about them.

Get it? Your doing it because you want to not because someone is making you therefore you are living your own life.

You can live your own life without totally ignoring everyone except your friends and family.

Like it or not, other people, who you may not like, are important. Bosses, police officers, governments and such. Acknowledging that you occasionally have to listen to these people isn't "selling out" or "letting other people control you", it's the only option if you want to be mature and not walk around with your fingers in your ears.

[Neutraligon]

No I asked you for the reason you felt the way you did, with evidence to back it up. We are asking you what is the reason you feel the way you do beyond i feel that way because I feel that way. There are many possible causes, some of which have actual scientific backing. Basically you are saying I formed an opinion without any proof whatsoever and by god I will hold to that opinion despite evidence to the contrary.

I already gave reasons for believing in what i do.

And there is no evidence to the contrary. How did someone rule out the possibility of choice having any role in it again ?

No you said I believe it because I believe it because somehow or another it makes sense, which is not a reason, just an excuse. You have ot provided evidence backing up why you felt it made sense, just said it does. I asked you for evidence. There is evidence that it is biological, you have not provided evidence that it is a choice, which one am I to believe than. You have made the decision to believe it is a choice without anything to back up that decision beyond "since I feel that way."

[Yumyumsuppertime]

1) But you believe homosexuality is a choice.
2) So what in the fuck did you skim?

1) Yes, because there is nothing that clearly proves that it isn't.
2) What "he" gave as evidence. Doesn't mean it is.

What the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Pediatric Association, and every single other official organization of medical professionals has accepted as conclusive evidence. These are all professionals in the field. All of them have accepted the proof given to you.

You don't understand how evidence works, do you?

If all of these people who have made it their life's work to study this topic have all independently reached the conclusion that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice, and have presented the results of their peer-reviewed studies detailing why they have reached these conclusions, then why do you believe otherwise? Again, where is your proof?

It's like saying "Yeah, you know, I just have an opinion that germs aren't a cause of disease, and I don't find the literature I skimmed to be convincing." That's fine, but you really need to present a more compelling argument backed up by facts if you're going to take that stand.

[Mirage]

Did you have a choice for your orientation?

Yes.

[Norstal]

Of course it goes no where. Do you think a debate is a football match where there's a winner and goes on for a limited time?

The point of debating is not to convince the arguers or debaters. The point for is to forge the best argument so that spectators and lurkers get convinced by it.

And you are currently making the shittiest arguments in this thread because you spam.

Yes but every one is too fixed on their own opinions to be convinced by anyone else so we should all just agree to disagree and go home.

So your idea is to abandon this forum?

Lol.

What do you mean I ...spam?

You're making posts irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[Norstal]

Did you have a choice for your orientation?

Yes.

Which is your preference then?

[Ovisterra]

Still waiting for you to explain why.

Because there is nothing in there that rules out choice as a possibility nor state exactly what causes it.

No, those studies rule it out.

Please do show me where they don't.

[Anachronous Rex]

Did you have a choice for your orientation?

Yes.

Good for you. I didn't really.

[Threlizdun]

1) But you believe homosexuality is a choice.
2) So what in the fuck did you skim?

1) Why do you believe the opposite case to be true when there is no proof for that either.

I believe the opposite case because there is proof for it. I am an example of such proof. You are too. Everyone is.

2) Doesn't mean that it is true. It could be false too.

It could be, but the chances of that being the case are next to nonexistent at this point.

3) who think they did not choose it.

Again, we're going with the millions of delusional individuals versus you being right scenario. It is safe to say that we know ourselves better than you do, and that it is more likely that millions have not just tricked themselves into being attracted to members of the same sex somehow than it is that they have.

[Azaflaza]

You can live your own life without totally ignoring everyone except your friends and family.

Like it or not, other people, who you may not like, are important. Bosses, police officers, governments and such. Acknowledging that you occasionally have to listen to these people isn't "selling out" or "letting other people control you", it's the only option if you want to be mature and not walk around with your fingers in your ears.

Fine then I concede my point it's not worth arguing over ....you win.

[Mavorpen]

Still waiting for you to explain why.

Because there is nothing in there that rules out choice as a possibility nor state exactly what causes it.

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is.

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Human sexual orientation most likely exists as a continuum from solely heterosexual to solely homosexual. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified homosexuality as a sexual orientation or expression and not a mental disorder.12 The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11

All of those quotes are from my three sources. I even highlighted important points in red so that you don't have to stress yourself with the difficult action of actually reading and comprehending sources.

Now, do you STILL want to pretend as though you've actually read them, despite making claims that are demonstrably false? Stop. Lying.

[Mirage]

No you said I believe it because I believe it because somehow or another it makes sense, which is not a reason, just an excuse. You have ot provided evidence backing up why you felt it made sense, just said it does. I asked you for evidence. There is evidence that it is biological, you have not provided evidence that it is a choice, which one am I to believe than.

"Why do you find it tasty ?"

"Because i like its taste"

"Yes, but why ?"

"Because i do"

"why ? where is the evidence ?"

Sorry, but no.

And there is no evidence that choice cannot be a factor.

No, those studies rule it out.

Please do show me where they don't.

Please show me where they do and how it was tested out.

Yes.

Which is your preference then?

I would only choose to have sex with a woman if that is what you are asking.

[Mirage]

Because there is nothing in there that rules out choice as a possibility nor state exactly what causes it.

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is.

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Human sexual orientation most likely exists as a continuum from solely heterosexual to solely homosexual. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified homosexuality as a sexual orientation or expression and not a mental disorder.12 The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual.8,11

All of those quotes are from my three sources. I even highlighted important points in red so that you don't have to stress yourself with the difficult action of actually reading and comprehending sources.

Now, do you STILL want to pretend as though you've actually read them, despite making claims that are demonstrably false? Stop. Lying.

How did they test it out again ? I mean, anyone can simply say anything.

[Neutraligon]

No you said I believe it because I believe it because somehow or another it makes sense, which is not a reason, just an excuse. You have ot provided evidence backing up why you felt it made sense, just said it does. I asked you for evidence. There is evidence that it is biological, you have not provided evidence that it is a choice, which one am I to believe than.

"Why do you find it tasty ?"

"Because i like its taste"

"Yes, but why ?"

"Because i do"

"why ? where is the evidence ?"

Sorry, but no.

And there is no evidence that choice cannot be a factor.

No, those studies rule it out.

Please do show me where they don't.

Please show me where they do and how it was tested out.

Which is your preference then?

I would only choose to have sex with a woman if that is what you are asking.

No it is
"Why do you think people find it tasty?"
"Because they chose to find it tasty"
"Why do you think that, what evidence do you have that they chose to find it tasty"
"Because i think that they chose to"
"But why do you think that"
"Because it makes sense"
"But why do you think it makes sense, please provide some evidence that it makes sense they chose to find it tasty."