Are homosexuals really born that way?

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Hell no its there choice Not a gene if there was gene we would know about it.

Apart from your evident cluelessness about the current state of our knowledge of the human genome...

Does it really matter if it's purely inborn, or a pure choice, or a mixed state of the two? I'd say no, but I guess you will have a different opinion on it, am I not right? And would you care to explain why?

This is exactly the reason why I really don't care for these sorts of discussions.

Whether homosexuality is an inborn trait or not has zero social relevance. Unless you just happen to have an academic interest in these sorts of topics (I don't, really), it is a completely irrelevant question.

Its status as an inborn trait or a conscious choice (or somewhere in between) has zero bearing on its social validity. Even if you do manage to convince someone already inclined to reject the social validity of homosexuality that it's (primarily) an inborn trait rather than a choice, that in itself won't get them to accept homosexuality itself; at most, it moves their mental conception of its ontological nature from "vile choice that deserves scorn and condemnation" to "unfortunate congenital defect that requires compassion and treatment," and the associated lexis and praxis goes from "God hates fags" to "pray the gay away."

Thus, unless it's being engaged from a perspective of pure academic interest, these discussions are a complete waste of time and energy, as even if they do succeed in changing someone's mind they don't actually make any progress towards increased acceptance of homosexuality and other alternate sexualities.

[Mirage]

Where it is genetic and you're proven wrong? The horror!

More like where it is genetic and people start looking for a "cure". or it is psychological and people start looking for therapies.

While i am against homosexuality, i don't have anything against homosexuals, regardless of whether they chose it or not. As long as they are happy and it is not harmful to anyone i don't see anything wrong with it.

[Galloism]

So, not everyone agrees that they are born that way. In other words more data/research is needed to find out for sure.

Maybe it is better as a whole if we didn't find out though. I could imagine some scenarios that i would rather not see.

Where it is genetic and you're proven wrong? The horror!

Actually, the chances of it being entirely genetic are pretty slim.

Then again, the chances of it being entirely environmental are pretty slim too.

[Euroslavia]

Where it is genetic and you're proven wrong? The horror!

More like where it is genetic and people start looking for a "cure". or it is psychological and people start looking for therapies.

While i am against homosexuality, i don't have anything against homosexuals, regardless of whether they chose it or not. As long as they are happy and it is not harmful to anyone i don't see anything wrong with it.

I don't know if you've been living in a cave, but these 'therapies' have existed for some time now, regardless of if it's proven to be psychological or not. I've been through one. It completely damages your well being.

[Mirage]

I don't know if you've been living in a cave, but these 'therapies' have existed for some time now, regardless of if it's proven to be psychological or not. I've been through one. It completely damages your well being.

I haven't heard of any here. But that is pretty stupid if these therapies do exist.

[Euroslavia]

Where it is genetic and you're proven wrong? The horror!

Actually, the chances of it being entirely genetic are pretty slim.

Then again, the chances of it being entirely environmental are pretty slim too.

I wasn't implying that it was, just responding to someone who is seemingly stubborn about how it's caused, regardless of proof.

[Euroslavia]

I don't know if you've been living in a cave, but these 'therapies' have existed for some time now, regardless of if it's proven to be psychological or not. I've been through one. It completely damages your well being.

I haven't heard of any here. But that is pretty stupid if these therapies do exist.

http://www.queerty.com/raymond-buys-gay ... -20130429/

[Mirage]

Actually, the chances of it being entirely genetic are pretty slim.

Then again, the chances of it being entirely environmental are pretty slim too.

I wasn't implying that it was, just responding to someone who is seemingly stubborn about how it's caused, regardless of proof.

I never claimed that it was indeed caused purely by choice. I said it was my belief. And there are no proofs, only speculations and theories.

I haven't heard of any here. But that is pretty stupid if these therapies do exist.

http://www.queerty.com/raymond-buys-gay ... -20130429/

Forgive my skepticism but is there any you know, reliable source ? one that might not be biased and all.

[Neo Art]

I don't know if you've been living in a cave, but these 'therapies' have existed for some time now, regardless of if it's proven to be psychological or not. I've been through one. It completely damages your well being.

I haven't heard of any here. But that is pretty stupid if these therapies do exist.

That might explain our problem. you apparently live in a dirt hole covered by a rock.

[Russadonia]

I wish I knew how to quit you.

[Mirage]

I haven't heard of any here. But that is pretty stupid if these therapies do exist.

That might explain our problem. you apparently live in a dirt hole covered by a rock.

"What's up doc ?"

[Euroslavia]

I wasn't implying that it was, just responding to someone who is seemingly stubborn about how it's caused, regardless of proof.

I never claimed that it was indeed caused purely by choice. I said it was my belief. And there are no proofs, only speculations and theories.

http://www.queerty.com/raymond-buys-gay ... -20130429/

Forgive my skepticism but is there any you know, reliable source ? one that might not be biased and all.

..You're kidding, right?

[Neo Art]

I never claimed that it was indeed caused purely by choice. I said it was my belief. And there are no proofs, only speculations and theories.



Forgive my skepticism but is there any you know, reliable source ? one that might not be biased and all.

..You're kidding, right?

Now do you see what I've been dealing with here?

[Mirage]

..You're kidding, right?

Nope.avi

[Euroslavia]

Forgive my skepticism but is there any you know, reliable source ? one that might not be biased and all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/3 ... 86820.html
http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/ ... ory=100011
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 33300.html
http://freakoutnation.com/2013/04/29/ga ... -into-men/

[Technopolis]

http://www.queerty.com/raymond-buys-gay ... -20130429/

Forgive my skepticism but is there any you know, reliable source ? one that might not be biased and all.

Oh, they exist. And resulted in the death of one of the most important pioneers of computing because homophobic arseholes have to shove their false sense of morality down other people's throats.
...I've had a bad day.

[Northern Dominus]

..You're kidding, right?

Nope.avi

Maybe the APA would convince you? The APA being the American Psychological Association? You know the group that sets ethical operating practices and standards for every accreddited psychologist in the US IE ones that don't practice barbaric brainwaishing techniques like reparaitive/conversion therapy, those guys

http://www.examiner.com/article/apa-gay ... e-attempts
http://www.apa.org/about/policy/sexual-orientation.aspx

[Mirage]

Forgive my skepticism but is there any you know, reliable source ? one that might not be biased and all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/3 ... 86820.html
http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/ ... ory=100011
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 33300.html
http://freakoutnation.com/2013/04/29/ga ... -into-men/

Thank you. That was better. But isn't that just torture. That is not something i would call therapy.

[Euroslavia]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/3 ... 86820.html
http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/ ... ory=100011
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 33300.html
http://freakoutnation.com/2013/04/29/ga ... -into-men/

Thank you. That was better. But isn't that just torture. That is not something i would call therapy.

That's the point. These 'therapies' are torture.

[Mirage]

Thank you. That was better. But isn't that just torture. That is not something i would call therapy.

That's the point. These 'therapies' are torture.

Well, i was going by actual therapies when i used that term. But even then i don't see the reason why homosexuality is something that needs to be cured regardless, so...

[Technopolis]

Thank you. That was better. But isn't that just torture. That is not something i would call therapy.

That's the point. These 'therapies' are torture.

It's alright when you're doing it because one interpretation of one line of a book tells you to do it, right guys?

[United Republics of Aralon]

I am no geneticist, so I did not find out personally. also according to the wikipedia article, common belief among scinetists(and psychologists too.) that it is a, partly genetic, partly enviromental(which is unlikely given that most homsexuals/bisexuals are raised by heterosexual parents, and there are heterosexuals raised by homosexual people, so this sounds bullshit to me), or fully genetical.
And the article cites a number of papers to back these claims.

General
Main articles: Biology and sexual orientation and Environment and sexual orientation
The causes of homosexuality, and more generically the causes of human sexual orientation, have been the subject of abundant scientific inquiry, and the activity has been developed mainly in the direction of biological and environmental factors. The biological factors that have been researched are genetic and hormonal, particularly during the fetal developmental period, that influence the resulting brain structure, and other characteristics such as handedness.[3][4] There are a wide range of environmental factors (sociological, psychological, or early uterine environment), and various biological factors, that may influence sexual orientation; though many researchers believe that it is caused by a complex interplay between nature and nurture, they favor biological models for the cause.[1][3]
The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in Pediatrics in 2004:
“ Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.[4][145][146] ”
The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers stated in 2006:
“ Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.[2] ”
The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.[4] ”
The American Psychological Association states "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people", and says most people's sexual orientation is determined at an early age.[1] Research into how sexual orientation in males may be determined by genetic or other prenatal factors plays a role in political and social debates about homosexuality, and also raises concerns about genetic profiling and prenatal testing.[147]
Professor Michael King states: "The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."[148]
Innate bisexuality (or predisposition to bisexuality) is a term introduced by Sigmund Freud, based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess, that expounds that all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development—which includes both external and internal factors—become monosexual, while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.
Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation."[149]

So, not everyone agrees that they are born that way. In other words more data/research is needed to find out for sure.

Maybe it is better as a whole if we didn't find out though. I could imagine some scenarios that i would rather not see.

Not everyone agrees on ir being purely genetic. Yet everyone agrees that it is not conscious choice,the other theory is combination of genetic and passive envirometlal influence. Again no scientific choice theory.And please edit your post and cite the part on me suggesting the most reliable source.

[Northern Dominus]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/3 ... 86820.html
http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/ ... ory=100011
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 33300.html
http://freakoutnation.com/2013/04/29/ga ... -into-men/

Thank you. That was better. But isn't that just torture. That is not something i would call therapy.

It is torture, along with brainwashing as well. And yet somehow it's not illegal in all 50 states of the USA.

That's the treatment people are subjected to in order to "change" their sexual orientation, and the results are often harmful and even fatal:
http://whatstheharm.net/reparativetherapy.html

And some people think it's a "choice"? That it's as easy as flipping a switch?

There is no codified therapy or counseling to address sexual orientation. That's because none is needed in the first place. To allege otherwise is quite barbaric and subhuman in its own right.

[Euroslavia]

Thank you. That was better. But isn't that just torture. That is not something i would call therapy.

That's the point. These 'therapies' are torture.

Well, i was going by actual therapies when i used that term. But even then i don't see the reason why homosexuality is something that needs to be cured regardless, so...

Hope you don't mind I fixed your quote tags. It showed me saying something that you had said.

[Maeksa]

Homosexual males CHOOSE to have sex with other men, just as I CHOOSE to have sex with women.