Are homosexuals really born that way?

[Anachronous Rex]

In some ways, yes. This does seem to be how fetishism in males develops (typically, whatever a boy is into at 13 will be his obsession forever.)

But this is not what most homosexuals report as their experience. I know it's a tired cliché, but the "I always knew I wasn't like the other girls" motif exists for a reason.

My answer is in the cliché. "Like the other girls".

You're expected to like the other sex. The mind is incredibly powerful, and it's possible that you inhibit the expression of your own inherent sexual preference by telling yourself you like the other sex. Since sexual preference is regulated from your own mind, the mind itself can probably inhibit it.

Well virtually all homosexuals up until very recently have, at one point or another, tried to "inhibit the expression of their own inherent sexual preference" to no effect.

[Mavorpen]

Wrong in both cases.

You still missed the point as i was saying he should just give google as his source if he is going to give so many as i am not patient enough to read all of them.

And i did acknowledge it. Not my fault if you missed it.

I'm glad that we've gotten to the "No, you!" point in the debate. Your intellectual prowess is just too overwhelming for me.

What are you talking about? We've been at that point since he made his first post in this thread.

[Euroslavia]

I'm glad that we've gotten to the "No, you!" point in the debate. Your intellectual prowess is just too overwhelming for me.

What are you talking about? We've been at that point since he made his first post in this thread.

I'm talking about us specifically.

[Nadkor]

Actually, if you think about it, what seems most plausible is that we're born asexual. During our first years we show no distinct interest in the other sex, but as soon as puberty kicks in we start developing our taste.

There might be a hormone (or several of them) in that pubescent cocktail that triggers the activation of the genes that determine your sexual orientation, which might also rely on environmental or other factors.

Seems plausible, no?

Ehhh...somewhat, but not entirely.

Here's the thing: when I was in preschool, I had a crush on a little boy in my class and wanted him to be my "boyfriend." I tried to get him to "marry" me. I wanted to hold his hand every time the class had to hold hands with each other. I'm a straight woman.

One of my gay male friends has described the exact same experience.

Now, I'm not saying that this proves sexuality is set in stone when one is three. I think sexuality is in many ways as much a process as a state, and that it can evolve over time (up to a point, anyway) - but I think there is a LOT of evidence that small children have sexual orientations, just not sexual orientations that tend to involve desire for intercourse so much as for hand-holding and mock wedding ceremonies.

Yeah, I definitely had people I 'fancied' way back in the day, in what you Americans would call pre-school.

[Anachronous Rex]

Actually, if you think about it, what seems most plausible is that we're born asexual. During our first years we show no distinct interest in the other sex, but as soon as puberty kicks in we start developing our taste.

Speak for yourself, I was having a "girlfriend" when I was 5.

You were "having" her?

That's a bit young, don't you think?

[Mavorpen]

What are you talking about? We've been at that point since he made his first post in this thread.

I'm talking about us specifically.

I know. I'm just saying it was inevitable.

[Mavorpen]

Speak for yourself, I was having a "girlfriend" when I was 5.

You were "having" her?

That's a bit young, don't you think?

You're never too young to chop up people you like and barbecue them. *nods*

[Euroslavia]

I'm talking about us specifically.

I know. I'm just saying it was inevitable.

Fair point, I should've expected it. Three responses was way too much time given in hopes of at least one legitimate source. I'll go to my corner now.

[Esternial]

My answer is in the cliché. "Like the other girls".

You're expected to like the other sex. The mind is incredibly powerful, and it's possible that you inhibit the expression of your own inherent sexual preference by telling yourself you like the other sex. Since sexual preference is regulated from your own mind, the mind itself can probably inhibit it.

Well virtually all homosexuals up until very recently have, at one point or another, tried to "inhibit the expression of their own inherent sexual preference" to no effect.

Hmm, right.

Well obviously it isn't as simple as I make it out to be. Lots of things are likely involved.

[The Blaatschapen]

Speak for yourself, I was having a "girlfriend" when I was 5.

You were "having" her?

That's a bit young, don't you think?

Male sheep are sexually mature at 4 to 6 months.

[Mavorpen]

I know. I'm just saying it was inevitable.

Fair point, I should've expected it. Three responses was way too much time given in hopes of at least one legitimate source. I'll go to my corner now.

Yes, you can spend your time doing something productive. Like playing Pokemon in the corner. *nods*

[Anachronous Rex]

You were "having" her?

That's a bit young, don't you think?

Male sheep are sexually mature at 4 to 6 months.

Touché.

[Anachronous Rex]

Well virtually all homosexuals up until very recently have, at one point or another, tried to "inhibit the expression of their own inherent sexual preference" to no effect.

Hmm, right.

Well obviously it isn't as simple as I make it out to be. Lots of things are likely involved.

Well let me personalize it then. I can remember having sexual thoughts as early as 5. I wouldn't call them, strictly, heterosexual, but they were definitely leaning in that direction.

[Esternial]

Hmm, right.

Well obviously it isn't as simple as I make it out to be. Lots of things are likely involved.

Well let me personalize it then. I can remember having sexual thoughts as early as 5. I wouldn't call them, strictly, heterosexual, but they were definitely leaning in that direction.

What I'm interesting in is what causes those thoughts. Would it be predetermined that one has these thoughts at 5? Or is it possible that our society has sped up the process? Maybe there's an early onset of puberty that is far less noticeable...some kind of pre-puberty where the structure of your mind is shaped. After all that's where it all starts. Hormones are released there first.

Also, thank you for sharing that...and pardon my speculations.

[Euroslavia]

Fair point, I should've expected it. Three responses was way too much time given in hopes of at least one legitimate source. I'll go to my corner now.

Yes, you can spend your time doing something productive. Like playing Pokemon in the corner. *nods*

The ironic part is that I'm literally playing Pokemon Black 2 right now.

[Anachronous Rex]

Well let me personalize it then. I can remember having sexual thoughts as early as 5. I wouldn't call them, strictly, heterosexual, but they were definitely leaning in that direction.

What I'm interesting in is what causes those thoughts.

In my case Linka and Gi from Captain Planet.

Would it be predetermined that one has these thoughts at 5? Or is it possible that our society has sped up the process? Maybe there's an early onset of puberty that is far less noticeable...some kind of pre-puberty where the structure of your mind is shaped. After all that's where it all starts. Hormones are released there first.

Also, thank you for sharing that...and pardon my speculations.

It's a mistake to view children as asexual. They are merely not fully sexual (and, of course, incapable of meaningful consent; don't want you to get the wrong idea about me.) I can't imagine that society had much influence on this. I know five year olds are not immune from societal influences, but still.

[This Might Be A Nation]

The only way I know how to look at this issue is by a Christian point-of-view. The Bible and Book of Mormon (both of which I know are true) both state homosexuality is an intolerable abomination in the eyes of our Lord God. Since we have all been given agency (the ability to choose between right or wrong), I honestly do not think God would make it so an individual had no choice but to sin and love someone of their own sex just because of their genes. Homosexually learn/choose to be the way they are. If one were to claim that they "cannot help it," I would say their spirit is possessed by the Devil, altering their state of mind. In other words, it's probably a mental illness.

[Mavorpen]

Yes, you can spend your time doing something productive. Like playing Pokemon in the corner. *nods*

The ironic part is that I'm literally playing Pokemon Black 2 right now.

This is totally a coincidence and does not mean I am currently observing you from a discreet place.

[The Blaatschapen]

The ironic part is that I'm literally playing Pokemon Black 2 right now.

This is totally a coincidence and does not mean I am currently observing you from a discreet place.

Ah, so you took my spot.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

This is totally a coincidence and does not mean I am currently observing you from a discreet place.

Ah, so you took my spot.

Oh wow! That's you? I can see you from the tree, across the street, that I'm currently sitting in.

[Northern Dominus]

Ah, so you took my spot.

Oh wow! That's you? I can see you from the tree, across the street, that I'm currently sitting in.

... get out of my goddamn tree before I get the shotgun.

[Euroslavia]

The only way I know how to look at this issue is by a Christian point-of-view. The Bible and Book of Mormon (both of which I know are true) both state homosexuality is an intolerable abomination in the eyes of our Lord God. Since we have all been given agency (the ability to choose between right or wrong), I honestly do not think God would make it so an individual had no choice but to sin and love someone of their own sex just because of their genes. Homosexually learn/choose to be the way they are. If one were to claim that they "cannot help it," I would say their spirit is possessed by the Devil, altering their state of mind. In other words, it's probably a mental illness.

Except that it's not a mental illness.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/h ... ealth.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10 ... 32118.html
http://www.aglp.org/gap/1_history/

[Euroslavia]

The ironic part is that I'm literally playing Pokemon Black 2 right now.

This is totally a coincidence and does not mean I am currently observing you from a discreet place.

Well this is awkward. I figured it was paparazzi taking pictures of my daily life for an article on 'Successful Gays" in the Detroit Free Press.

[Esternial]

This is totally a coincidence and does not mean I am currently observing you from a discreet place.

Well this is awkward. I figured it was paparazzi taking pictures of my daily life for an article on 'Successful Gays" in the Detroit Free Press.

I should inform you: that wasn't a camera lens.

[Northern Dominus]

The only way I know how to look at this issue is by a Christian point-of-view. The Bible and Book of Mormon (both of which I know are true) both state homosexuality is an intolerable abomination in the eyes of our Lord God. Since we have all been given agency (the ability to choose between right or wrong), I honestly do not think God would make it so an individual had no choice but to sin and love someone of their own sex just because of their genes. Homosexually learn/choose to be the way they are. If one were to claim that they "cannot help it," I would say their spirit is possessed by the Devil, altering their state of mind. In other words, it's probably a mental illness.

Except that it's not a mental illness.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/h ... ealth.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10 ... 32118.html
http://www.aglp.org/gap/1_history/

I can clear this up quickly.

"I am God.

Gays are ok. Stop persecuting them or I will smite you in cruel and ironic ways."

There we go, simple enough. Anyone claiming a "christian" basis seems just as easily duped the same flimsy evidence anyway.