Does God exist?

[Menassa]

except its not, in the original language she is only referred to as a young woman, it only became virgin through mistranslation.

Mary (Miriam) had taken a Chastity oath. We can assume she hadn't had sex leading up to that point.

It wasn't an 'oath' it was based upon the Jewish wedding ritual.

[Sociobiology]

except its not, in the original language she is only referred to as a young woman, it only became virgin through mistranslation.

I'm going to assume

(although please try and be coherent in your next post)

That you're talking about Isaiah 7:14.... Isaiah 7:14... is not talking about Mary at all... you see how the word is: 'The' a definite article... meaning that the Woman is known to both the prophet Isaiah and who he was speaking too.

actually it translates as A young woman. from the original Hebrew.

And you differentiate how?
because if the answer is evidence, then it all becomes horse shit again.

A Jew believes in the Miracles attributed to Moses.
A Christian believes in the Miracles attributed to Moses and Jesus.
A Muslim believes in the Miracles attributed to Moses and Jesus and Muhammad.

Do you see the connection?

Oldest to youngest sects of the same religion?

Still want to know how you think you tell the difference between accurate and false "miracles"

[Menassa]

I'm going to assume

(although please try and be coherent in your next post)

That you're talking about Isaiah 7:14.... Isaiah 7:14... is not talking about Mary at all... you see how the word is: 'The' a definite article... meaning that the Woman is known to both the prophet Isaiah and who he was speaking too.

actually it translates as A young woman. from the original Hebrew.



A Jew believes in the Miracles attributed to Moses.
A Christian believes in the Miracles attributed to Moses and Jesus.
A Muslim believes in the Miracles attributed to Moses and Jesus and Muhammad.

Do you see the connection?

Oldest to youngest sects of the same religion?

Still want to know how you think you tell the difference between accurate and false "miracles"

Read Deuteronomy 13
And Deuteronomy 18:15-22

[Sociobiology]

if only the devil can rebel then demons must be doing gods bidding.

You've clearly missed the subtlety in that post... I'll make note of that.

When Elyon divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam,
he established the borders of the nations according to the number of the sons of the gods.
Yahweh’s portion was his people, [Israel] his allotted inheritance. (Deut. 32:8–9)

בְּהַנְחֵל עֶלְיוֹן גּוֹיִם, בְּהַפְרִידוֹ בְּנֵי אָדָם; יַצֵּב גְּבֻלֹת עַמִּים, לְמִסְפַּר בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל. When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the children of men, He set the borders of the peoples according to the number of the children of Israel.
כִּי חֵלֶק יְהוָה, עַמּוֹ: יַעֲקֹב, חֶבֶל נַחֲלָתוֹ. For the portion of the LORD is His people, Jacob the lot of His inheritance.

Learn2masoretictext.

I am referring to the oldest versions of the text.

Then [Elohim] said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness” (Genesis 1:26).

Were you aware that Christians believe that his verse refers to the Trinity?

which means they believe ins skitzo god.
Also why would would the Christian interpretation matter?

[Elohim] stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment (Ps. 82:1).

. A song of Asaph. God stands in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He will judge. א. מִזְמוֹר לְאָסָף אֱלֹהִים נִצָּב בַּעֲדַת אֵל בְּקֶרֶב אֱלֹהִים יִשְׁפֹּט:
I'm seriously doubting your Biblical Hebrew skills.

I have to doubt yours
singular stands in plural of singular, in the midst of plural, singular judges.
that is a sentence describing the leader of a group of something.
El both the word for the father of gods and the generic word for god, for example, Saturn and Hadad are referred to as El in old Semitic manuscripts.

All the gods bow down before [Jehovah] (Ps. 97:7).

The Talmud teaches us dear friend, when a heretic brings a verse before you the answer is usually around that verse.

Psalm 97:7 All worshippers of graven images will be ashamed,

exactly a graven image means a carving made to represent a god, he is punishing them for worshiping other god, just like the Greek gods did.

But you must not turn away from all the commandments I am giving you today, to either the right or left, nor pursue other gods and worship them (Deut. 28:14–15).

and the classic
“You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:3).

and “I, Jehovah, your God, am a jealous God”
referring to the tribes, meaning other tribes have other gods.

You as an Atheist do not believe God exists....

According to your logic (in saying that those verses prove paganism) that God does indeed exist... you just don't believe that he exists.

wow you are really horrible at red herrings.
I am referring to the mythology, just as I can say Thor is male, Anansi is a trickster, Harry Potter has a scar and lives ina world with dragons, and there are many gods in the universe of Conan the barbarian.
you can still argue about what fiction actually says, without believing it is non-fiction.

[Menassa]

You've clearly missed the subtlety in that post... I'll make note of that.


בְּהַנְחֵל עֶלְיוֹן גּוֹיִם, בְּהַפְרִידוֹ בְּנֵי אָדָם; יַצֵּב גְּבֻלֹת עַמִּים, לְמִסְפַּר בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל. When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the children of men, He set the borders of the peoples according to the number of the children of Israel.
כִּי חֵלֶק יְהוָה, עַמּוֹ: יַעֲקֹב, חֶבֶל נַחֲלָתוֹ. For the portion of the LORD is His people, Jacob the lot of His inheritance.

Learn2masoretictext.

I am referring to the oldest versions of the text.

You know of something older than the Masoretic Text?

Please.... do enlighten me.

Were you aware that Christians believe that his verse refers to the Trinity?

which means they believe ins skitzo god.
Also why would would the Christian interpretation matter?

Because... you believe that this talking about multiple Gods.
Some Christians believe it's talking about the Trinity.
You believe the exact same thing as some Christians.
I find that histerical because both links I provided you with not only refute your claim directly.... but their claim as well.

. A song of Asaph. God stands in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He will judge. א. מִזְמוֹר לְאָסָף אֱלֹהִים נִצָּב בַּעֲדַת אֵל בְּקֶרֶב אֱלֹהִים יִשְׁפֹּט:
I'm seriously doubting your Biblical Hebrew skills.

I have to doubt yours
singular stands in plural of singular, in the midst of plural, singular judges.
that is a sentence describing the leader of a group of something.
El both the word for the father of gods and the generic word for god, for example, Saturn and Hadad are referred to as El in old Semitic manuscripts.

What?

The verse says God sits in God's court and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

The two words used for God here are: El, and Elohim.

The Talmud teaches us dear friend, when a heretic brings a verse before you the answer is usually around that verse.

Psalm 97:7 All worshippers of graven images will be ashamed,

exactly a graven image means a carving made to represent a god, he is punishing them for worshiping other god, just like the Greek gods did.

Source that the Greek gods did this.

Secondly... it's like I said below:

"I am so awesome that unicorns are jealous of me."

knowing full well unicorns don't exist.

What is this.... I don't even.

[Sociobiology]

I am referring to the oldest versions of the text.

You know of something older than the Masoretic Text?

Please.... do enlighten me.

the Septuagint and the Tanakh at Qumran

which means they believe ins skitzo god.
Also why would would the Christian interpretation matter?

Because... you believe that this talking about multiple Gods.
Some Christians believe it's talking about the Trinity.

some also believe Lucifer is the devil

I have to doubt yours
singular stands in plural of singular, in the midst of plural, singular judges.
that is a sentence describing the leader of a group of something.
El both the word for the father of gods and the generic word for god, for example, Saturn and Hadad are referred to as El in old Semitic manuscripts.

What?

The verse says God sits in God's court and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.


The two words used for God here are: El, and Elohim.

[/quote]
which translate to god In the same sense of "Thor is the god of thunder"
and
god or gods or powers
respectively


You are arguing that the Greeks were monotheistic be cause they refer to Hephaestus as the god of the forge.
And that the president os the only person in the army because he calls it his army.

congregation means multiple

exactly a graven image means a carving made to represent a god, he is punishing them for worshiping other god, just like the Greek gods did.

the Iliad.
of did you not read the cause of the first Trojan war in the text.

[Menassa]

You know of something older than the Masoretic Text?

Please.... do enlighten me.

the Septuagint and the Tanakh at Qumran

The Septuagint... may be less then reliable and I've presented you with what it says from the earliest Hebrew Texts.

which means they believe ins skitzo god.
Also why would would the Christian interpretation matter?

Because... you believe that this talking about multiple Gods.
Some Christians believe it's talking about the Trinity.

some also believe Lucifer is the devil[/quote]
Some do believe that,
we believe that neither of those characters Exists..
God has an angel named Satan.

What?

The verse says God sits in God's court and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

Yes, God does sit in God's Court, and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

The two words used for God here are: El, and Elohim.

which translate to god In the same sense of "Thor is the god of thunder"
and
god or gods or powers
respectively[/quote]
So they're the Same... El, and Elohim...

You are arguing that the Greeks were monotheistic be cause they refer to Hephaestus as the god of the forge.
And that the president os the only person in the army because he calls it his army.

congregation means multiple

the Iliad.
of did you not read the cause of the first Trojan war in the text.

I am saying that because it says not to worship other God's... it does not mean other Gods exist... in fact many times it calls them false gods.

"For they pray to emptiness and vanity." says Isaiah.

As well as you who are an Atheist.
You will say: "I don't believe in God."

Which means God exists... you just don't believe in him... it's the same thing.

[Sociobiology]

Oldest to youngest sects of the same religion?

Still want to know how you think you tell the difference between accurate and false "miracles"

Read Deuteronomy 13
And Deuteronomy 18:15-22

you mean the bid were you get conflicting instructions?

Or that we can determine Moses is false because his prophesies are wrong.

[Menassa]

Read Deuteronomy 13
And Deuteronomy 18:15-22

you mean the bid were you get conflicting instructions?

Or that we can determine Moses is false because his prophesies are wrong.

What do you mean conflicting instructions?

[Sociobiology]

the Septuagint and the Tanakh at Qumran

The Septuagint... may be less then reliable and I've presented you with what it says from the earliest Hebrew Texts.

but not the earliest text.

I do believe I mentioned the Tanakh at Qumran as well

Because... you believe that this talking about multiple Gods.
Some Christians believe it's talking about the Trinity.

some also believe Lucifer is the devil

Some do believe that,
we believe that neither of those characters Exists.[/quote]
which you determine by guessing

What?

The verse says God sits in God's court and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

Yes, God does sit in God's Court, and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

So they're the Same... El, and Elohim...

yes in the sense they often do not refer to Yahweh
and one can be the plural of the other.

I am saying that because it says not to worship other God's... it does not mean other Gods exist... in fact many times it calls them false gods.

he would wouldn't he, he also says he is jealous

As well as you who are an Atheist.
You will say: "I don't believe in God."

Which means God exists... you just don't believe in him... it's the same thing.

except I don't say that, I say
I don't believe in any gods because there is absolutely no evidence for them.

And I am not claiming to be a god at the same time.
nor do I claim that false gods bow to me.

Also I notice still no answer to
“You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:3).

when "You shall have no other gods" would have worked, unless they are allowed to worship other gods but only to a lesser and reserved extent, because of the jealousy thing.

[Sociobiology]

the Septuagint and the Tanakh at Qumran

The Septuagint... may be less then reliable and I've presented you with what it says from the earliest Hebrew Texts.

but not the earliest text.

I do believe I mentioned the Tanakh at Qumran as well

some also believe Lucifer is the devil

Some do believe that,
we believe that neither of those characters Exists.

which you determine by guessing

Yes, God does sit in God's Court, and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

actually the translation is assembly or congregation which is a group

So they're the Same... El, and Elohim...

yes in the sense they often do not refer to Yahweh
and one can be the plural of the other.

I am saying that because it says not to worship other God's... it does not mean other Gods exist... in fact many times it calls them false gods.

he would wouldn't he, he also says he is jealous

As well as you who are an Atheist.
You will say: "I don't believe in God."

Which means God exists... you just don't believe in him... it's the same thing.

[/quote]
except I don't say that, I say
I don't believe in any gods because there is absolutely no evidence for them.

And I am not claiming to be a god at the same time.
nor do I claim that false gods bow to me.

Also I notice still no answer to
“You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:3).

when "You shall have no other gods" would have worked, unless they are allowed to worship other gods but only to a lesser and reserved extent, because of the jealousy thing.

[Menassa]

The Septuagint... may be less then reliable and I've presented you with what it says from the earliest Hebrew Texts.

but not the earliest text.

I do believe I mentioned the Tanakh at Qumran as well

You mentioned it.

Have you brought something from it?

Because... you believe that this talking about multiple Gods.
Some Christians believe it's talking about the Trinity.

some also believe Lucifer is the devil

Some do believe that,
we believe that neither of those characters Exists.[/quote]
which you determine by guessing[/quote]
Irrelevant, stick to the subject.

What?

The verse says God sits in God's court and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

Yes, God does sit in God's Court, and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

So they're the Same... El, and Elohim...

yes in the sense they often do not refer to Yahweh
and one can be the plural of the other.

I am saying that because it says not to worship other God's... it does not mean other Gods exist... in fact many times it calls them false gods.

he would wouldn't he, he also says he is jealous

As well as you who are an Atheist.
You will say: "I don't believe in God."

Which means God exists... you just don't believe in him... it's the same thing.

except I don't say that, I say
I don't believe in any gods because there is absolutely no evidence for them.

And I am not claiming to be a god at the same time.
nor do I claim that false gods bow to me.

Also I notice still no answer to
“You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:3).

when "You shall have no other gods" would have worked, unless they are allowed to worship other gods but only to a lesser and reserved extent, because of the jealousy thing.[/quote]

Yes it would have.... don't eat unicorn!

Hah what a silly command unicorns don't exist.

However people think they do exist... and it's a command for them.

You're right, False God's don't exist... however at that time people believes they did.

[Sociobiology]

you mean the bid were you get conflicting instructions?

Or that we can determine Moses is false because his prophesies are wrong.

What do you mean conflicting instructions?

there are no prophets/ there are prophets but you can them them from the fakes because they will not do this thing that both the fakes and the "real" ones do.

[Menassa]

What do you mean conflicting instructions?

there are no prophets/ there are prophets but you can them them from the fakes because they will not do this thing that both the fakes and the "real" ones do.

The Bible says there are prophets who will instruct you in the ways of God.

Kill those prophets who don't instruct you in the ways of God.

How is that unclear?

[Sociobiology]

there are no prophets/ there are prophets but you can them them from the fakes because they will not do this thing that both the fakes and the "real" ones do.

The Bible says there are prophets who will instruct you in the ways of God.

Kill those prophets who don't instruct you in the ways of God.

How is that unclear?

without giving you any way to tell if the instructions are the ways of god.
at least not instructions that would not force you to see Moses as a false prophet.

[Menassa]

The Bible says there are prophets who will instruct you in the ways of God.

Kill those prophets who don't instruct you in the ways of God.

How is that unclear?

without giving you any way to tell if the instructions are the ways of god.
at least not instructions that would not force you to see Moses as a false prophet.

Again, you're using Moses which is a pretty poor choice since under him there did occur a national revelation.

[Sociobiology]

but not the earliest text.

I do believe I mentioned the Tanakh at Qumran as well

You mentioned it.

Have you brought something from it?

the translations I used

which you determine by guessing

Irrelevant, stick to the subject.

highly relevant because you are arguing for one interpretation as correct without any reason to prefer that interpretation.

Yes, God does sit in God's Court, and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

actually the translation is assembly or congregation which is a group

So they're the Same... El, and Elohim...

yes in the sense they often do not refer to Yahweh
and one can be the plural of the other.

Also I notice still no answer to
“You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:3).

when "You shall have no other gods" would have worked, unless they are allowed to worship other gods but only to a lesser and reserved extent, because of the jealousy thing.

Yes it would have.... don't eat unicorn!

which is very different than "don't eat unicorn until after you have eaten your vegetables."

[Menassa]

You mentioned it.

Have you brought something from it?

the translations I used

Source

Irrelevant, stick to the subject.

highly relevant because you are arguing for one interpretation as correct without any reason to prefer that interpretation.

There is a reason.... do you know what the English Term, Majestic Plural is?
The Royal 'we?'

Yes, God does sit in God's Court, and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

actually the translation is assembly or congregation which is a group

No... it's talking about God sitting amongst the judges.

[Ordya]

the Septuagint and the Tanakh at Qumran

The Septuagint... may be less then reliable and I've presented you with what it says from the earliest Hebrew Texts.

Because... you believe that this talking about multiple Gods.
Some Christians believe it's talking about the Trinity.

some also believe Lucifer is the devil

Some do believe that,
we believe that neither of those characters Exists..
God has an angel named Satan.

What?

The verse says God sits in God's court and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

Yes, God does sit in God's Court, and in the midst of Judges he will Judge.

The two words used for God here are: El, and Elohim.

which translate to god In the same sense of "Thor is the god of thunder"
and
god or gods or powers
respectively[/quote]
So they're the Same... El, and Elohim...

You are arguing that the Greeks were monotheistic be cause they refer to Hephaestus as the god of the forge.
And that the president os the only person in the army because he calls it his army.

congregation means multiple

the Iliad.
of did you not read the cause of the first Trojan war in the text.

I am saying that because it says not to worship other God's... it does not mean other Gods exist... in fact many times it calls them false gods.

"For they pray to emptiness and vanity." says Isaiah.

As well as you who are an Atheist.
You will say: "I don't believe in God."

Which means God exists... you just don't believe in him... it's the same thing.[/quote]

No, it's not. God may exist, but you have no proof to support this, therefore the null hypothesis is that he doesn't exist (or at least shouldn't be believed in).

[Menassa]

No, it's not. God may exist, but you have no proof to support this, therefore the null hypothesis is that he doesn't exist (or at least shouldn't be believed in).

Reading back in the conversation.... you would note that I only presented that Absurd argument to parallel another argument, and by the same stroke.... showing the invalidity of both.

[Mizrad]

Just because this thread is full of religious people who might know the answer to this question, does anybody know when and where the Bible was written and by who or atleast the answer to one of those three? I'm just asking a question, don't start getting angry at me.

[Menassa]

Just because this thread is full of religious people who might know the answer to this question, does anybody know when and where the Bible was written and by who or atleast the answer to one of those three? I'm just asking a question, don't start getting angry at me.

I believe the first stage of the Bible was Canonized in Babylon... the second and third were canonized in Judea soon after the Babylonian exile.

I do NOT believe it was a canonized at the hypothetical council of Jamina.... which there is no evidence for and the only possible reason for such a claim would be to prove that the Jews.... the Pharisees... believed in Jesus but rejected him anyway.... and only John 8:44 can do that.

[Conscentia]

Just because this thread is full of religious people who might know the answer to this question, does anybody know when and where the Bible was written and by who or atleast the answer to one of those three? I'm just asking a question, don't start getting angry at me.

The Bible is a collection of books that have been written, rewritten, and expanded upon for centuries.

There is a link to a relevant video in my forum signature.
Alternatively, the url can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

[Mizrad]

Just because this thread is full of religious people who might know the answer to this question, does anybody know when and where the Bible was written and by who or atleast the answer to one of those three? I'm just asking a question, don't start getting angry at me.

I believe the first stage of the Bible was Canonized in Babylon... the second and third were canonized in Judea soon after the Babylonian exile.

I do NOT believe it was a canonized at the hypothetical council of Jamina.... which there is no evidence for and the only possible reason for such a claim would be to prove that the Jews.... the Pharisees... believed in Jesus but rejected him anyway.... and only John 8:44 can do that.

Well I guess that answers my question pretty well and it makes sense, thanks.

[Menassa]

Just because this thread is full of religious people who might know the answer to this question, does anybody know when and where the Bible was written and by who or atleast the answer to one of those three? I'm just asking a question, don't start getting angry at me.

The Bible is a collection of books that have been written, rewritten, and expanded upon for centuries.

See the relevant link in my signature.
Alternatively, the url can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

That video makes me laugh.... every time.