Where is this all coming from? 1984, CCTV, Police State? O_O

[EvilDarkMagicians]

I heard people mention time and time again that the U.K is:

Slowly slipping into a police state.

Being watched by CCTV all the time

and

Becoming like what George Orwell predicted for 1984

Why do people hold these opinions?
Why do you hold them, what is happening that I am so oblivious to?
Explain.

[Ordo Mallus]

i personally have never thought that way but i'll take a stab at it, People of the UK are continuosly in a quest for the best security and in the process sacrafice to much for a false sence of safety?

[EvilDarkMagicians]

i personally have never thought that way but i'll take a stab at it, People of the UK are continuosly in a quest for the best security and in the process sacrafice to much for a false sence of safety?

If the proper security measures were in place, it wouldn't be a false sense of security would it?

[Angleter]

If you mean Britain, then it comes from the mass government databases, the fact that they then exclude themselves from those databases, the masses of CCTV, and the encroachment of government into our daily lives (see TV adverts telling you to Change 4 Life, that it's utterly idiotic to give up cigarettes without government help, to wear a condom, not to eat more than your recommended government allowance of 6g of salt each day, etc).

Even the Russians are amazed: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1172083/Russian-journalist-blasts-Big-Brother-Britain-compares-life-old-Soviet-Union.html

[Natapoc]

The key to an effective police state is to cause your citizens to be unable to distinguish the goals the state has for them from the goals they have for themselves. Thus the citizens believe they have independent thought and freedom to action because they have no desire or don't even consider actions outside of what the state desires them to do.

In this way the police state disguises itself as a free functioning democracy. It is unlikely you would realize it if you were living in such a state...

[The Halseyist Faction]

And that we're going to elect a conservative government next, because we've all forgotten who Margert Thatcher was.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

If you mean Britain, then it comes from the mass government databases, the fact that they then exclude themselves from those databases, the masses of CCTV, and the encroachment of government into our daily lives (see TV adverts telling you to Change 4 Life, that it's utterly idiotic to give up cigarettes without government help, to wear a condom, not to eat more than your recommended government allowance of 6g of salt each day, etc).

Yes those 'nanny state' adverts are quite annoying.
Though something does need to be done about peoples health, where better to put in, then adverts on T.V?

[Angleter]

If you mean Britain, then it comes from the mass government databases, the fact that they then exclude themselves from those databases, the masses of CCTV, and the encroachment of government into our daily lives (see TV adverts telling you to Change 4 Life, that it's utterly idiotic to give up cigarettes without government help, to wear a condom, not to eat more than your recommended government allowance of 6g of salt each day, etc).

Yes those 'nanny state' adverts are quite annoying.
Though something does need to be done about peoples health, where better to put in, then adverts?

Unfortunately the notions of 'nanny state' and 'NHS' are inseparable. With one there must be the other.

[Muharadge]

I guess it is because one can't go more than three streets away without being seen by at least one CCTV camera... mainly in London. In every bus there are at least 4 CCTV cameras, at every second Street Corner there is one.

Then Companies like for Example Tescos can keep loads of Information about their customers and noone is complaining about it. The planned ID scheme is not exacly helping either, although i support it...

I still think we are far away from becoming a police state though.

i personally have never thought that way but i'll take a stab at it, People of the UK are continuosly in a quest for the best security and in the process sacrafice to much for a false sence of safety?

If the proper security measures were in place, it wouldn't be a false sense of security would it?

Problem is that these security measures like giving the police more rights to hold terror suspects or more CCTV against terrorists don't really help against what they were meant to help against originally.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

The key to an effective police state is to cause your citizens to be unable to distinguish the goals the state has for them from the goals they have for themselves. Thus the citizens believe they have independent thought and freedom to action because they have no desire or don't even consider actions outside of what the state desires them to do.

In this way the police state disguises itself as a free functioning democracy. It is unlikely you would realize it if you were living in such a state...

I don't think it's that far yet.
Yet, I don't know...according to you I wouldn't even be able to tell.

[Angleter]

And that we're going to elect a conservative government next, because we've all forgotten who Margert Thatcher was.

And you seem to have forgotten who Jim Callaghan was.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

I guess it is because one can't go more than three streets away without being seen by at least one CCTV camera... mainly in London. In every bus there are at least 4 CCTV cameras, at every second Street Corner there is one.

Then Companies like for Example Tescos can keep loads of Information about their customers and noone is complaining about it. The planned ID scheme is not exacly helping either, although i support it...

I still think we are far away from becoming a police state though.

i personally have never thought that way but i'll take a stab at it, People of the UK are continuosly in a quest for the best security and in the process sacrafice to much for a false sence of safety?

If the proper security measures were in place, it wouldn't be a false sense of security would it?

Problem is that these security measures like giving the police more rights to hold terror suspects or more CCTV against terrorists don't really help against what they were meant to help against originally.

Yes, I am kind of creeped out by the amount of CCTV. I live in London so I see them all the time

[Angleter]

The key to an effective police state is to cause your citizens to be unable to distinguish the goals the state has for them from the goals they have for themselves. Thus the citizens believe they have independent thought and freedom to action because they have no desire or don't even consider actions outside of what the state desires them to do.

In this way the police state disguises itself as a free functioning democracy. It is unlikely you would realize it if you were living in such a state...

I don't think it's that far yet.
Yet, I don't know...according to you I wouldn't even be able to tell.

But people can tell, so that means we must be in an ineffective police state, which seems to sum Brownist New Labour up perfectly.

But it's not just the government. Google logs everything you search on it, so if a politician has a fetish and use the internet to satisfy said fetish, their career will go down a path trodden by John Profumo, Mark Oaten and Earl Jellicoe.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

And that we're going to elect a conservative government next, because we've all forgotten who Margert Thatcher was. /thread de-rail

Congratulations for the first post to try and derail the thread.

[Woolio]

If you mean Britain, then it comes from the mass government databases, the fact that they then exclude themselves from those databases, the masses of CCTV, and the encroachment of government into our daily lives (see TV adverts telling you to Change 4 Life, that it's utterly idiotic to give up cigarettes without government help, to wear a condom, not to eat more than your recommended government allowance of 6g of salt each day, etc).

Yes those 'nanny state' adverts are quite annoying.
Though something does need to be done about peoples health, where better to put in, then adverts on T.V?

Health promotion adverts are now considered the action of a Nanny state?

They're not forcing you to wear a condom, stop smoking or give up salt. Until they do it's not nanny state.

[Funkaholics]

Don't forget newspeak either. Government trying to sell "War" to us as the only means to achieve "Peace" - and many people falling for it too, at least until it's too late to get out again.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

If you mean Britain, then it comes from the mass government databases, the fact that they then exclude themselves from those databases, the masses of CCTV, and the encroachment of government into our daily lives (see TV adverts telling you to Change 4 Life, that it's utterly idiotic to give up cigarettes without government help, to wear a condom, not to eat more than your recommended government allowance of 6g of salt each day, etc).

Yes those 'nanny state' adverts are quite annoying.
Though something does need to be done about peoples health, where better to put in, then adverts on T.V?

Health promotion adverts are now considered the action of a Nanny state?

They're not forcing you to wear a condom, stop smoking or give up salt. Until they do it's not nanny state.

Yes. They are TELLING you to do things.
That is sometimes considered an action of a nanny state.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Don't forget newspeak either. Government trying to sell "War" to us as the only means to achieve "Peace" - and many people falling for it too, at least until it's too late to get out again.

Yes,
War = Peace
does seem to be a popular theme in the Media.

Even though that's doublethink, not newspeak

[Ordo Mallus]

i personally have never thought that way but i'll take a stab at it, People of the UK are continuosly in a quest for the best security and in the process sacrafice to much for a false sence of safety?

If the proper security measures were in place, it wouldn't be a false sense of security would it?

by false security, i ment that the security people could abuse their power and do such things as extortion, black mail, false accounts of law breaking, etc. false security

[Funkaholics]

[edit] removed double post [/edit]

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Why have two people double posted?
Continuous time loop?

[United Russian State]

Thats nothing, if I was President, I would have computer chips put into every new born child so they could be tracked and send shock to kill them if they murdered or something. There would be camras everywhere, even in peoples homes, but bathrooms. Soliders would be around every cornor and tanks roaming main streets. We would know everything people did and when.

I would than name myself "Dear leader for Life."

[Skeptikosia]

Any country where you have to develop this sort of thing is answer enough.

[Woolio]

If you mean Britain, then it comes from the mass government databases, the fact that they then exclude themselves from those databases, the masses of CCTV, and the encroachment of government into our daily lives (see TV adverts telling you to Change 4 Life, that it's utterly idiotic to give up cigarettes without government help, to wear a condom, not to eat more than your recommended government allowance of 6g of salt each day, etc).

Yes those 'nanny state' adverts are quite annoying.
Though something does need to be done about peoples health, where better to put in, then adverts on T.V?

Health promotion adverts are now considered the action of a Nanny state?

They're not forcing you to wear a condom, stop smoking or give up salt. Until they do it's not nanny state.

Yes. They are TELLING you to do things.
That is sometimes considered an action of a nanny state.

They're advising you to do something which you have the right to refuse. Hardly nanny state.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Any country where you have to develop this sort of thing is answer enough.

What is that O_O