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Open Carry March on Washington DC July 4th

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is this a good idea?

YES, Kokesh and those marching with him are patriots!!
115
43%
NO, They will all end up dead or arrested
153
57%
 
Total votes : 268

User avatar
Xsyne
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6537
Founded: Apr 30, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Xsyne » Mon May 06, 2013 11:46 am

Bottle wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
Maybe because no one has said the Second Amendment is racist at all?

Yep, and here's another thing I'd like to see quoted by the person claiming it.

Please, someone quote where anybody in this thread has said the 2nd Amendment is racist. Or that anybody who supports the 2nd Amendment is racist. Or that supporting the 2nd Amendment is racist.

...the 2nd Amendment is racist.

...anybody who supports the 2nd Amendment is racist.

...supporting the 2nd Amendment is racist.


Jesus that was almost physically painful to do.
If global warming is real, why are there still monkeys? - Msigroeg
Pro: Stuff
Anti: Things
Chernoslavia wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:according to both the law library of congress and wikipedia, both automatics and semi-autos that can be easily converted are outright banned in norway.


Source?

User avatar
Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Mon May 06, 2013 11:47 am

Irredento wrote:Well, I have to go lynch me some negros and attend today's KKK meet for now, but I'll jump back into this conversation later.

It's been pretty depressing to see that of the two people defending your constitution, one of us is a foreigner, and I hope the 10:1 liberal:conservative ratio will have improved a bit by the time I get back but, this being NS, I won't get my hopes up. Have fun in the meantime, comrades.


Have fun. It's a pity the 2nd Amendment is just that, an Amendment. Therefore you are defending an amendment, not the Constitution itself. If amendments counted you'd be defending Prohibition and Income Tax and so on and you wouldn't do that now would you?

User avatar
Xsyne
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6537
Founded: Apr 30, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Xsyne » Mon May 06, 2013 11:47 am

Ensiferum wrote:
Irredento wrote:Well, I have to go lynch me some negros and attend today's KKK meet for now, but I'll jump back into this conversation later.

It's been pretty depressing to see that of the two people defending your constitution, one of us is a foreigner, and I hope the 10:1 liberal:conservative ratio will have improved a bit by the time I get back but, this being NS, I won't get my hopes up. Have fun in the meantime, comrades.


Have fun. It's a pity the 2nd Amendment is just that, an Amendment. Therefore you are defending an amendment, not the Constitution itself. If amendments counted you'd be defending Prohibition and Income Tax and so on and you wouldn't do that now would you?

Amendments are part of the Constitution.
If global warming is real, why are there still monkeys? - Msigroeg
Pro: Stuff
Anti: Things
Chernoslavia wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:according to both the law library of congress and wikipedia, both automatics and semi-autos that can be easily converted are outright banned in norway.


Source?

User avatar
Samuraikoku
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31947
Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Mon May 06, 2013 11:49 am

Irredento wrote:It's been pretty depressing to see that of the two people defending your constitution, one of us is a foreigner, and I hope the 10:1 liberal:conservative ratio will have improved a bit by the time I get back but, this being NS, I won't get my hopes up. Have fun in the meantime, comrades.


...

I am from Argentina.

User avatar
Mike the Progressive
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon May 06, 2013 11:49 am

Ensiferum wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:
At least for Bush v. Gore it really wasn't that simple.


True, the recount was inconclusive anyways as it depended on what type of recount they chose and what was counted as a vote. However, in the grand scheme of things the Supreme Court used powers it didn't have. It ensured a tyranny of the minority. Those in power got to choose who got power and that is just wrong.


I agree.

User avatar
Rainbows and Rivers
Diplomat
 
Posts: 803
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Rainbows and Rivers » Mon May 06, 2013 11:49 am

Anyway, this looks like a great opportunity for the government to test out some crowd control weapons. I hope they get to the Active Denial System.

User avatar
Algonquin Ascendancy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8417
Founded: Mar 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Algonquin Ascendancy » Mon May 06, 2013 11:49 am

Irredento wrote:Well, I have to go lynch me some negros and attend today's KKK meet for now, but I'll jump back into this conversation later.

It's been pretty depressing to see that of the two people defending your constitution, one of us is a foreigner, and I hope the 10:1 liberal:conservative ratio will have improved a bit by the time I get back but, this being NS, I won't get my hopes up. Have fun in the meantime, comrades.

It's amusing that you consider that word an insult...
• Call me Makki. •
Des: "Humanity: fucking awesome."
My name is Makkitotosimew, I am an Algonquin Separatist and also support the Quebec Separatist movement for purely pragmatic reasons. I am a member of the First Peoples National Party of Canada.
I worship Manitou, the Great Spirit. Mahinga is my spirit guide. All life is sacred and should be treated with respect. As such, I am opposed to sport hunting and factory farming.
I am a Democratic Syndicalist.
I am a 23 year old polyamorous, pansexual woman.
My Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.05

User avatar
Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Mon May 06, 2013 11:50 am

Xsyne wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
Have fun. It's a pity the 2nd Amendment is just that, an Amendment. Therefore you are defending an amendment, not the Constitution itself. If amendments counted you'd be defending Prohibition and Income Tax and so on and you wouldn't do that now would you?

Amendments are part of the Constitution.


So you'll defend prohibition and income tax to the last man then? The gummermint ain't gonna not take away my alcohol dammit!!! Exactly, you're not. Therefore you're supporting an amendment. Not the Constitution. Amendments are only treated as part of the Constitution. They can be repealed and altered.

User avatar
Choronzon
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9936
Founded: Apr 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Choronzon » Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 am

Xsyne wrote:
Bottle wrote:Yep, and here's another thing I'd like to see quoted by the person claiming it.

Please, someone quote where anybody in this thread has said the 2nd Amendment is racist. Or that anybody who supports the 2nd Amendment is racist. Or that supporting the 2nd Amendment is racist.

...the 2nd Amendment is racist.

...anybody who supports the 2nd Amendment is racist.

...supporting the 2nd Amendment is racist.


Jesus that was almost physically painful to do.

You should amend those quotes so we can all see who said them.

Just kind of sitting there like that they give the impression that Irredento has a leg to stand on.

User avatar
Algonquin Ascendancy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8417
Founded: Mar 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Algonquin Ascendancy » Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 am

Ensiferum wrote:
Xsyne wrote:Amendments are part of the Constitution.


So you'll defend prohibition and income tax to the last man then? The gummermint ain't gonna not take away my alcohol dammit!!! Exactly, you're not. Therefore you're supporting an amendment. Not the Constitution. Amendments are only treated as part of the Constitution. They can be repealed and altered.

Are you an American? If you are, this should be pretty embarrassing as a foreigner explains this to you...
Everything in the US constitution can be changed, not just the amendments...
• Call me Makki. •
Des: "Humanity: fucking awesome."
My name is Makkitotosimew, I am an Algonquin Separatist and also support the Quebec Separatist movement for purely pragmatic reasons. I am a member of the First Peoples National Party of Canada.
I worship Manitou, the Great Spirit. Mahinga is my spirit guide. All life is sacred and should be treated with respect. As such, I am opposed to sport hunting and factory farming.
I am a Democratic Syndicalist.
I am a 23 year old polyamorous, pansexual woman.
My Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.05

User avatar
The Emerald Dawn
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20824
Founded: Jun 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Emerald Dawn » Mon May 06, 2013 11:54 am

Choronzon wrote:
Xsyne wrote:



Jesus that was almost physically painful to do.

You should amend those quotes so we can all see who said them.

Just kind of sitting there like that they give the impression that Irredento has a leg to stand on.

(ಠ_ಠ)

That's ablist! Ableist? That's an abalone!

User avatar
Choronzon
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9936
Founded: Apr 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Choronzon » Mon May 06, 2013 11:55 am

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Choronzon wrote:You should amend those quotes so we can all see who said them.

Just kind of sitting there like that they give the impression that Irredento has a leg to stand on.

(ಠ_ಠ)

That's ablist! Ableist? That's an abalone!

I know. I'm the biggest bigot on NSG.

User avatar
The Emerald Dawn
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20824
Founded: Jun 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Emerald Dawn » Mon May 06, 2013 11:55 am

Algonquin Ascendancy wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
So you'll defend prohibition and income tax to the last man then? The gummermint ain't gonna not take away my alcohol dammit!!! Exactly, you're not. Therefore you're supporting an amendment. Not the Constitution. Amendments are only treated as part of the Constitution. They can be repealed and altered.

Are you an American? If you are, this should be pretty embarrassing as a foreigner explains this to you...
Everything in the US constitution can be changed, not just the amendments...

No no no, the US Constitution is the irrefutable word of Jesus. All of it.

Even the "people" part. He's very confused sometimes. Thinks he's a three-in-one Stepford Cuckoo thing.

User avatar
Khadgar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11006
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Khadgar » Mon May 06, 2013 11:55 am

Choronzon wrote:
Xsyne wrote:



Jesus that was almost physically painful to do.

You should amend those quotes so we can all see who said them.

Just kind of sitting there like that they give the impression that Irredento has a leg to stand on.


Bottle said all three in the quoted post, just took a bit of selective editing. For comedic effect I believe.

User avatar
Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Mon May 06, 2013 11:56 am

Algonquin Ascendancy wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
So you'll defend prohibition and income tax to the last man then? The gummermint ain't gonna not take away my alcohol dammit!!! Exactly, you're not. Therefore you're supporting an amendment. Not the Constitution. Amendments are only treated as part of the Constitution. They can be repealed and altered.

Are you an American? If you are, this should be pretty embarrassing as a foreigner explains this to you...
Everything in the US constitution can be changed, not just the amendments...


I'm German. Actually in order to alter the actual Constitution a Constitutional Convention has to be called. To change an amendment it just has to be passed like a law and then ratified by 2/3rds of the states. In the olden days it might have been easier to just call a Convention but today I don't think that's so.

User avatar
Choronzon
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9936
Founded: Apr 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Choronzon » Mon May 06, 2013 11:56 am

Khadgar wrote:
Choronzon wrote:You should amend those quotes so we can all see who said them.

Just kind of sitting there like that they give the impression that Irredento has a leg to stand on.


Bottle said all three in the quoted post, just took a bit of selective editing. For comedic effect I believe.

No, I know.

But just kind of sitting right there like that they're just kind of Stupid Bait, you know what I mean?
Last edited by Choronzon on Mon May 06, 2013 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
L Ron Cupboard
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9054
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby L Ron Cupboard » Mon May 06, 2013 11:57 am

I would have preferred a 10,000 strong open bong smoking rally through Washington.
A leopard in every home, you know it makes sense.

User avatar
Choronzon
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9936
Founded: Apr 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Choronzon » Mon May 06, 2013 11:59 am

L Ron Cupboard wrote:I would have preferred a 10,000 strong open bong smoking rally through Washington.

The government would react swifter and more decisively to such a rally than they will to this.

Which is incredibly depressing.
Last edited by Choronzon on Mon May 06, 2013 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72165
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon May 06, 2013 11:59 am

Ensiferum wrote:
Algonquin Ascendancy wrote:Are you an American? If you are, this should be pretty embarrassing as a foreigner explains this to you...
Everything in the US constitution can be changed, not just the amendments...


I'm German. Actually in order to alter the actual Constitution a Constitutional Convention has to be called. To change an amendment it just has to be passed like a law and then ratified by 2/3rds of the states. In the olden days it might have been easier to just call a Convention but today I don't think that's so.


You are drawing a distinction where there is none.

The "actual constitution" includes all amendments thereto, just like the "actual tax code" and the "actual FAA regulations".
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Mon May 06, 2013 12:03 pm

Galloism wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
I'm German. Actually in order to alter the actual Constitution a Constitutional Convention has to be called. To change an amendment it just has to be passed like a law and then ratified by 2/3rds of the states. In the olden days it might have been easier to just call a Convention but today I don't think that's so.


You are drawing a distinction where there is none.

The "actual constitution" includes all amendments thereto, just like the "actual tax code" and the "actual FAA regulations".


There are different ways to alter the two. Therefore there is a distinction. You can't say you want to change the language of the Constitution and pass it through like an amendment. Granted this would be preferable as a way to start a Constitutional Convention but it isn't holding. You're trying to lump to different things together and the Constitution doesn't work that way if you read it.

User avatar
Yumyumsuppertime
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 28799
Founded: Jun 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Mon May 06, 2013 12:08 pm

Ensiferum wrote:
Xsyne wrote:Amendments are part of the Constitution.


So you'll defend prohibition and income tax to the last man then? The gummermint ain't gonna not take away my alcohol dammit!!! Exactly, you're not. Therefore you're supporting an amendment. Not the Constitution. Amendments are only treated as part of the Constitution. They can be repealed and altered.


And Prohibition was repealed. If you're looking to argue for repeal of the 2nd amendment, that's an entirely different topic.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72165
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon May 06, 2013 12:08 pm

Ensiferum wrote:
Galloism wrote:
You are drawing a distinction where there is none.

The "actual constitution" includes all amendments thereto, just like the "actual tax code" and the "actual FAA regulations".


There are different ways to alter the two. Therefore there is a distinction. You can't say you want to change the language of the Constitution and pass it through like an amendment. Granted this would be preferable as a way to start a Constitutional Convention but it isn't holding. You're trying to lump to different things together and the Constitution doesn't work that way if you read it.

No. Try again.

Constitutional conventions can pass constitutional amendments.

They can also be passed by congress and ratified by the state legislatures.

Two paths, one end result: amendment.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Algonquin Ascendancy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8417
Founded: Mar 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Algonquin Ascendancy » Mon May 06, 2013 12:10 pm

Ensiferum wrote:
Algonquin Ascendancy wrote:Are you an American? If you are, this should be pretty embarrassing as a foreigner explains this to you...
Everything in the US constitution can be changed, not just the amendments...


I'm German. Actually in order to alter the actual Constitution a Constitutional Convention has to be called. To change an amendment it just has to be passed like a law and then ratified by 2/3rds of the states. In the olden days it might have been easier to just call a Convention but today I don't think that's so.

A constitutional convention is not required to change the US constitution... Amendments change the constitution.
• Call me Makki. •
Des: "Humanity: fucking awesome."
My name is Makkitotosimew, I am an Algonquin Separatist and also support the Quebec Separatist movement for purely pragmatic reasons. I am a member of the First Peoples National Party of Canada.
I worship Manitou, the Great Spirit. Mahinga is my spirit guide. All life is sacred and should be treated with respect. As such, I am opposed to sport hunting and factory farming.
I am a Democratic Syndicalist.
I am a 23 year old polyamorous, pansexual woman.
My Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.05

User avatar
Central Kadigan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 639
Founded: Apr 08, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Central Kadigan » Mon May 06, 2013 12:12 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:And Prohibition was repealed. If you're looking to argue for repeal of the 2nd amendment, that's an entirely different topic.

I don't think that most people want a full-up repeal of the Second Amendment - they just want reasonable, commonsense limits put on it. You know, just like every other single right that we have has reasonable, commonsense limits put on them.
The Nomocratic Commonwealth of Central Kadigan
We are free and happy, but poor as dirt!
Civil Rights 80/100 - Economy 58/100 - Political Freedoms 88/100

Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23
“Cosmopolitan Social Democrat”
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic: -12%
Secular/Fundamentalist: -60%
Visionary/Reactionary: -42%
Anarchist/Authoritarian: -38%
Communistic/Capitalistic: -23%
Pacifist/Militaristic: -13%
Ecological/Anthropocentric: +3%
“Hard-Core Liberal”
Personal Score: 80%
Economic Score: 17%
97% Green
96% Socialist
95% Democrat
57% Libertarian
16% Constitution
11% Republican - I have no explanation why this number is so high

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72165
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon May 06, 2013 12:14 pm

Central Kadigan wrote:
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:And Prohibition was repealed. If you're looking to argue for repeal of the 2nd amendment, that's an entirely different topic.

I don't think that most people want a full-up repeal of the Second Amendment - they just want reasonable, commonsense limits put on it. You know, just like every other single right that we have has reasonable, commonsense limits put on them.

How many constitutional rights do you have that you can only exercise with a background check, and, in certain cities, cannot be exercised in public at all?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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