Natural Rights Aren't A Thing (No, But Really, Though).

[Truziodis]

There's no such things as natural rights. It's just something arachno-caps and libertarians tell you to make you scared.

Though many anarcho-capitalists and libertarians would probably agree with that...

I'm one of them.

[The Horror Channel]

Saying "Natural Rights" is easier than actually being able to back up your beliefs.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

'Natural rights' are the natural darwinian freedoms that animals in the wild have-
freedoms which have driven eugenic natural selection for hundreds of millions of years,
exponentially longer than human civilization has existed.

Wild animals have many such natural freedoms that humans rarely have.
I'll use bears as an example:
Ever seen bears force their cubs to sit in a classroom for six hours per day and learn at a snail's pace, and then do paperwork slavery for some more hours?
Ever seen bears maintain huge prisons with many other bears imprisoned inside?
Ever seen a bear use a sharp stone or it's claws to cut off the foreskin of it's male cubs' penises?
Ever seen some clothes-wearing bears punish another bear for public nudity?
Ever seen some bears charge property tax (in the form of food) upon other bears for living upon an area of land?
Ever seen some bears steal one-third of the food gathered by other bears so as to pay for socialist health care, public schools, prisons, police, etcetera?
Ever seen a bear refrain from exercising it's natural right to self-defense against another bear that was attacking it, because the attacking bear had a badge, and belonged to an enormous gang of aggressive bears who also have badges?

Humans are by far the most perverse dysgenic species in the world.
No other animal species has anywhere near such strong dysgenic instincts, which motivate humans to collude on a massive scale to create gigantic world-encompassing tyrannical dysgenic hives, called 'states', which serve to perpetuate the prevalence of common bad innate traits (and especially perverse psychological traits), and suppress the competitive benefits of new and uncommon superior innate traits which would have otherwise competed them into extinction.

That is possibly the biggest bunch of drivel I've seen here since....about a week ago.

[DuThaal Craftworld]

They are a thing through force of will and moral right, in the beginning.
And then they became law. See the Bill of Rights, various constitutions, and the UN's Universal Human Rights. Also many passports. Thus, yes, they are. Do they have limits? Yes. But then again, doesn't everything?

[L Ron Cupboard]

'Natural rights' are the natural darwinian freedoms that animals in the wild have-
freedoms which have driven eugenic natural selection for hundreds of millions of years,
exponentially longer than human civilization has existed.

Wild animals have many such natural freedoms that humans rarely have.
I'll use bears as an example:
Ever seen bears force their cubs to sit in a classroom for six hours per day and learn at a snail's pace, and then do paperwork slavery for some more hours?
Ever seen bears maintain huge prisons with many other bears imprisoned inside?
Ever seen a bear use a sharp stone or it's claws to cut off the foreskin of it's male cubs' penises?
Ever seen some clothes-wearing bears punish another bear for public nudity?
Ever seen some bears charge property tax (in the form of food) upon other bears for living upon an area of land?
Ever seen some bears steal one-third of the food gathered by other bears so as to pay for socialist health care, public schools, prisons, police, etcetera?
Ever seen a bear refrain from exercising it's natural right to self-defense against another bear that was attacking it, because the attacking bear had a badge, and belonged to an enormous gang of aggressive bears who also have badges?

Humans are by far the most perverse dysgenic species in the world.
No other animal species has anywhere near such strong dysgenic instincts, which motivate humans to collude on a massive scale to create gigantic world-encompassing tyrannical dysgenic hives, called 'states', which serve to perpetuate the prevalence of common bad innate traits (and especially perverse psychological traits), and suppress the competitive benefits of new and uncommon superior innate traits which would have otherwise competed them into extinction.

So bears have a natural right to shit in the woods?

[Immoren]

'Natural rights' are the natural darwinian freedoms that animals in the wild have-
freedoms which have driven eugenic natural selection for hundreds of millions of years,
exponentially longer than human civilization has existed.

Wild animals have many such natural freedoms that humans rarely have.
I'll use bears as an example:
Ever seen bears force their cubs to sit in a classroom for six hours per day and learn at a snail's pace, and then do paperwork slavery for some more hours?
Ever seen bears maintain huge prisons with many other bears imprisoned inside?
Ever seen a bear use a sharp stone or it's claws to cut off the foreskin of it's male cubs' penises?
Ever seen some clothes-wearing bears punish another bear for public nudity?
Ever seen some bears charge property tax (in the form of food) upon other bears for living upon an area of land?
Ever seen some bears steal one-third of the food gathered by other bears so as to pay for socialist health care, public schools, prisons, police, etcetera?
Ever seen a bear refrain from exercising it's natural right to self-defense against another bear that was attacking it, because the attacking bear had a badge, and belonged to an enormous gang of aggressive bears who also have badges?

Humans are by far the most perverse dysgenic species in the world.
No other animal species has anywhere near such strong dysgenic instincts, which motivate humans to collude on a massive scale to create gigantic world-encompassing tyrannical dysgenic hives, called 'states', which serve to perpetuate the prevalence of common bad innate traits (and especially perverse psychological traits), and suppress the competitive benefits of new and uncommon superior innate traits which would have otherwise competed them into extinction.

So bears have a natural right to shit in the woods?

Or bears have natural rights to be popes?

[Diopolis]

'Natural rights' are the natural darwinian freedoms that animals in the wild have-
freedoms which have driven eugenic natural selection for hundreds of millions of years,
exponentially longer than human civilization has existed.

Wild animals have many such natural freedoms that humans rarely have.
I'll use bears as an example:
Ever seen bears force their cubs to sit in a classroom for six hours per day and learn at a snail's pace, and then do paperwork slavery for some more hours?
Ever seen bears maintain huge prisons with many other bears imprisoned inside?
Ever seen a bear use a sharp stone or it's claws to cut off the foreskin of it's male cubs' penises?
Ever seen some clothes-wearing bears punish another bear for public nudity?
Ever seen some bears charge property tax (in the form of food) upon other bears for living upon an area of land?
Ever seen some bears steal one-third of the food gathered by other bears so as to pay for socialist health care, public schools, prisons, police, etcetera?
Ever seen a bear refrain from exercising it's natural right to self-defense against another bear that was attacking it, because the attacking bear had a badge, and belonged to an enormous gang of aggressive bears who also have badges?

Humans are by far the most perverse dysgenic species in the world.
No other animal species has anywhere near such strong dysgenic instincts, which motivate humans to collude on a massive scale to create gigantic world-encompassing tyrannical dysgenic hives, called 'states', which serve to perpetuate the prevalence of common bad innate traits (and especially perverse psychological traits), and suppress the competitive benefits of new and uncommon superior innate traits which would have otherwise competed them into extinction.

[sarcasm]I've never seen a bear. So no. But seriously, bears do those things- they are just hiding and will eventually rise up and replace us as the dominant species, using us as slaves and food. Fear for the future!
[/sarcasm]

[Xirxixcroxior]

'Natural rights' are the natural darwinian freedoms that animals in the wild have-
freedoms which have driven eugenic natural selection for hundreds of millions of years,
exponentially longer than human civilization has existed.

Wild animals have many such natural freedoms that humans rarely have.
I'll use bears as an example:
Ever seen bears force their cubs to sit in a classroom for six hours per day and learn at a snail's pace, and then do paperwork slavery for some more hours?
Ever seen bears maintain huge prisons with many other bears imprisoned inside?
Ever seen a bear use a sharp stone or it's claws to cut off the foreskin of it's male cubs' penises?
Ever seen some clothes-wearing bears punish another bear for public nudity?
Ever seen some bears charge property tax (in the form of food) upon other bears for living upon an area of land?
Ever seen some bears steal one-third of the food gathered by other bears so as to pay for socialist health care, public schools, prisons, police, etcetera?
Ever seen a bear refrain from exercising it's natural right to self-defense against another bear that was attacking it, because the attacking bear had a badge, and belonged to an enormous gang of aggressive bears who also have badges?

Humans are by far the most perverse dysgenic species in the world.
No other animal species has anywhere near such strong dysgenic instincts, which motivate humans to collude on a massive scale to create gigantic world-encompassing tyrannical dysgenic hives, called 'states', which serve to perpetuate the prevalence of common bad innate traits (and especially perverse psychological traits), and suppress the competitive benefits of new and uncommon superior innate traits which would have otherwise competed them into extinction.

Until you can prove that bears use tools and build a complex hierarchical society, this is not even relevant.

What is this, Darwin is scratching his coffinlid.

Rights are a human invention, it's one of those things that seperate us from animals.

[EnragedMaldivians]

'Natural rights' are the natural darwinian freedoms that animals in the wild have-
freedoms which have driven eugenic natural selection for hundreds of millions of years,
exponentially longer than human civilization has existed.

Wild animals have many such natural freedoms that humans rarely have.
I'll use bears as an example:
Ever seen bears force their cubs to sit in a classroom for six hours per day and learn at a snail's pace, and then do paperwork slavery for some more hours?
Ever seen bears maintain huge prisons with many other bears imprisoned inside?
Ever seen a bear use a sharp stone or it's claws to cut off the foreskin of it's male cubs' penises?
Ever seen some clothes-wearing bears punish another bear for public nudity?
Ever seen some bears charge property tax (in the form of food) upon other bears for living upon an area of land?
Ever seen some bears steal one-third of the food gathered by other bears so as to pay for socialist health care, public schools, prisons, police, etcetera?
Ever seen a bear refrain from exercising it's natural right to self-defense against another bear that was attacking it, because the attacking bear had a badge, and belonged to an enormous gang of aggressive bears who also have badges?

Humans are by far the most perverse dysgenic species in the world.
No other animal species has anywhere near such strong dysgenic instincts, which motivate humans to collude on a massive scale to create gigantic world-encompassing tyrannical dysgenic hives, called 'states', which serve to perpetuate the prevalence of common bad innate traits (and especially perverse psychological traits), and suppress the competitive benefits of new and uncommon superior innate traits which would have otherwise competed them into extinction.

While I did mention the possibility of verbose pseudo intellectualism popping up in this thread, I did not think it would manifest in a comparison of human social structures and habits...

...to that of bears.

Well done.

[Zottistan]

Nah, no natural rights. Rights only exist because it's in the interest of societies to protect their individuals, and in the interest of individuals to protect their societies.

So basically, Machiavellianism makes the world turn round.

[Sidhae]

I reject the notion that there are any kind of inherent, natural or otherwise, rights. There are only privileges that must be attained by conscious effort. Life isn't a right - it is a privilege earned by effort to sustain one's physical self alive, and failure to make that effort results in loss of life. An individual incapable of making that effort can remain alive thanks to the efforts of his social group, making his life all the more of a privilege. Same is true for all other "rights".

[Choronzon]

The best argument that can be presented in favor of natural rights is that no one can prove they don't exist.

Which is a really great argument for unicorns, too.

[Benuty]

Death is the only truly equal thing.

[Big Jim P]

The only thing that can be considered a natural right is the right to attempt to survive.

[Big Jim P]

The best argument that can be presented in favor of natural rights is that no one can prove they don't exist.

Which is a really great argument for unicorns, too.

Seems to work for gods as well.

[Ifreann]

Natural rights are stupid and people who think they exist should stop doing that.

---

The best argument that can be presented in favor of natural rights is that no one can prove they don't exist.

Which is a really great argument for unicorns, too.

I would rather a unicorn than natural rights. Maybe this isn't surprising.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Natural rights are stupid and people who think they exist should stop doing that.

---

The best argument that can be presented in favor of natural rights is that no one can prove they don't exist.

Which is a really great argument for unicorns, too.

I would rather a unicorn than natural rights. Maybe this isn't surprising.

What's so great about unicorns anyway? It's basically a horse that can stab you in the forehead.

[Ifreann]

Natural rights are stupid and people who think they exist should stop doing that.

---

I would rather a unicorn than natural rights. Maybe this isn't surprising.

What's so great about unicorns anyway? It's basically a horse that can stab you in the forehead.

You just answered your own question.

[Big Jim P]

What's so great about unicorns anyway? It's basically a horse that can stab you in the forehead.

You just answered your own question.

They make fairly good virgin detectors as well.

[Galborg]

This is the difference between Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

DoI is propaganda and rhetoric, they would say that wouldn't they.

Constitution = We the People make Law. Americans wanted to build a nation where Citizens have rights, so they elected Founding Fathers to write Laws that Citizens have these rights.

Citizen rights are NOT god-given; citizen rights are peasant-given. Every few years, the evil tory government manufactures a Seldon Crisis as an excuse to abolish Citizen Rights. If Peasants fight back, then evil government surrenders and Citizens continue to have rights. Ifn Peasants surrender, then evil government repeals Citizen rights Laws. ShS

[Cannot think of a name]

So bears have a natural right to shit in the woods?

Or bears have natural rights to be popes?

Or shit popes in the woods?

[Big Jim P]

Or bears have natural rights to be popes?

Or shit popes in the woods?

Everybody popes.

[Mavorpen]

I think this discussion summed up the idiocy of "natural rights."

No you wouldn't. In a state of nature, you would be torn to shreds by predators. You could maybe argue liberty, but not the other two.

You mean nature isn't like Disney movies where the animals sing and help you get dressed in the morning?

[Diopolis]

I think this discussion summed up the idiocy of "natural rights."

You mean nature isn't like Disney movies where the animals sing and help you get dressed in the morning?

Seconded.

[Truziodis]

The best argument that can be presented in favor of natural rights is that no one can prove they don't exist.

Which is a really great argument for unicorns, too.

No. That is a terrible argument. When will this Russel's Teapot nonsense stop? It's a dialectic argument from ignorance. It's no different than the uber fundamentalist saying that, "I don't know.... therefore God." Neither Unicorns nor Natural rights exist if God does not exist. Arguing for any of them is arguing for all of them.