Sharia poll amongst Muslim people

[Azurand]

How about stay in a secular nation? It's not like we want a Global Caliphate or something.

Furthermore, this law only apply to Muslims.

No. It applies to me even when I am not Muslim.

Back at the Muhammad's age, renounce Islam meant as the act of treason, your return to the side of Pagans and therefore dangerous to other fellow Muslims. It's a circumstantial interpretation and may no longer implemented in modern Islamic sharia law. And Qur'an itself specifically said that Islam is not to be forced.

[EnragedMaldivians]

This just goes to show you that people are ignorant when it comes to Islam. If people actually read the Quran and the hadiths of the Prophet confirmed by scholars, then you can criticise it all you want, but if you know nothing about Islam and believe only what the media says or what certain countries though then you are one of the most ignorant people in the world.

I was raised Muslim, and am from a country that demands I be Muslim. Believe it or not, not everyone who has a problem with sharia has it because they watched too much Fox News or whatever.

The Sahih hadiths do not necessarily reflect very well on your prophet.

[Al Meajilia]

This just goes to show you that people are ignorant when it comes to Islam. If people actually read the Quran and the hadiths of the Prophet confirmed by scholars, then you can criticise it all you want, but if you know nothing about Islam and believe only what the media says or what certain countries though then you are one of the most ignorant people in the world.

I was raised Muslim, and am from a country that demands I be Muslim. Believe it or not, not everyone who has a problem with sharia has it because they watched too much Fox News or whatever.

The Sahih hadiths do not necessarily reflect very well on your prophet.

I bet you even don't know a Hadith and I dare you to post a Hadith in fluent Arabic. And It is not allowed in Islam to force Islam on people, they must join it of their free will

[EnragedMaldivians]

No. It applies to me even when I am not Muslim.

Back at the Muhammad's age, renounce Islam meant as the act of treason, your return to the side of Pagans and therefore dangerous to other fellow Muslims. It's a circumstantial interpretation and may no longer implemented in modern Islamic sharia law. And Qur'an itself specifically said that Islam is not to be forced.

I'm perfectly aware of that arguement, but the four main schools of Sunni fiqh disagree and do insist on putting a male murtad who does not repent to death, arguing that "iqrafidheen' refers only to whether are not people are forced to convert to Islam in the first place (as in no one may be forced to convert to Islam, but once they do, they may not leave the faith). Such revisionist interpretations are easily supplanted by conservative ones.

[Azurand]

Furthermore, this law only apply to Muslims.

Not if it becomes the law of the land, as you have expressed approval for:

Well, heheh, seemingly now we're very, very disappointed with current law and government - they're fucking terrible. And now for some people is the right time to put God's rule as the idealist system than the flawed work of corrupt men just because they've contacted with secularism, doesn't mean that they - or we like it.

I'd very, very happy if Sharia Law is imposed here, the true one, but I don't think it's my main priority. Or even secondary. Or third.

(Emphasis mine)

Don't try to run away from your own words - it doesn't work on the internet.

Nope. Even if it's the State's law, it still does not apply for non-Muslims, except if they requested so. Self-marriages for Zoroastrians were allowed despite considered 'incestuous' in Sharia Law.

[EnragedMaldivians]

I was raised Muslim, and am from a country that demands I be Muslim. Believe it or not, not everyone who has a problem with sharia has it because they watched too much Fox News or whatever.

The Sahih hadiths do not necessarily reflect very well on your prophet.

I bet you even don't know a Hadith and I dare you to post a Hadith in fluent Arabic. And It is not allowed in Islam to force Islam on people, they must join it of their free will

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Tolerance with regard to conversion and tolerance with regard to apostasy/murtads is not the same. The Hanbali, Hanafi, Shaafi and Maliki madh'ab do not tolerate apostates.

I'd love to be wrong though, and for the Maldives' scholars and majority of its citizens to agree with you that Islam cannot be forced on an apostate. Perhaps you should take it up with the ulammah. Would make my life a lot easier.

[Central Kadigan]

If you wouldn't mind, ‪Kemalist (or others), could you explain exactly what Šarīʿah Law is, and what it is not? I'm not as informed on this topic as I'd like to be. Thanks!!

[Radiatia]

No, you're advocating making a storybook equivalent to facts. You don't get to do that. Though I know how much you love to disregard facts you don't like so why am I bothering to type this?

That is your opinion. My opinion is that evolution is bullshit and that God created the world in 6 days. It's your opinion that the Bible is just a storybook and that evolution made us all.

My opinion is that the sky is green. The problem with opinions is that they don't mean jack shit. Only facts matter and unfortunately there are no facts supporting creationism. There are myriad supporting evolution.

Also, Intelligent Design is Creationism, it's just thinly veiled to make the ridiculous belief sound borderline credible to people who still aren't educated enough to know better.

[La Cucaracha]

That is your opinion. My opinion is that evolution is bullshit and that God created the world in 6 days. It's your opinion that the Bible is just a storybook and that evolution made us all.

My opinion is that the sky is green. The problem with opinions is that they don't mean jack shit. Only facts matter and unfortunately there are no facts supporting creationism. There are myriad supporting evolution.

Also, Intelligent Design is Creationism, it's just thinly veiled to make the ridiculous belief sound borderline credible to people who still aren't educated enough to know better.

I've heard the term "creationism in a cheap tuxedo".

[Jetan]

My opinion is that the sky is green. The problem with opinions is that they don't mean jack shit. Only facts matter and unfortunately there are no facts supporting creationism. There are myriad supporting evolution.

Also, Intelligent Design is Creationism, it's just thinly veiled to make the ridiculous belief sound borderline credible to people who still aren't educated enough to know better.

I've heard the term "creationism in a cheap tuxedo".

Sounds like a correct description.

[Risottia]

No. It applies to me even when I am not Muslim.

Back at the Muhammad's age, renounce Islam meant as the act of treason, your return to the side of Pagans and therefore dangerous to other fellow Muslims. It's a circumstantial interpretation and may no longer implemented in modern Islamic sharia law. And Qur'an itself specifically said that Islam is not to be forced.

No True Scotsman Sharia detected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Countries

Iran, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Qatar, Yemen, Mauritania: apostasy of Islam entails death penalty.
Egypt: apostasy of Islam entails 3 years in jail.
UAE: apostasy of Islam entails 3 years in jail AND flogging.
Malaysia (5/13 states): apostasy of Islam entails jail, fine and flogging.
Jordan, Oman: various penalties.

[Risottia]

That is your opinion. My opinion is that evolution is bullshit and that God created the world in 6 days. It's your opinion that the Bible is just a storybook and that evolution made us all.

Someone here is mistaking the fact that everybody has an equal right to his opinions for the idea that all opinions are equally valid.

Evolution: supported by objective facts, direct experiments, measurements, and a logically consistent theory.
Creation: supported by some collections of myths.

Evolution is a valid opinion about reality. Creation isn't a valid opinion about reality. Because, when talking reality, facts matter, personal opinions don't.

[Risottia]

If it's the "law of the country", it applies to everyone.

It's Islamic Law, therefore it applies only to Muslims.

Then it's not the law of the country, which is what we're debating here.

One notices, anyway, that some Islamists - you included - support different laws and rights according to one's religion. That is, opposing equality.

[Kemalist]

Too be honest, Im surprised Russia has a number that high, and Turkey has a number that low.

Don't worry, it's most probably much lower than the percentage of people who wish for the Halakha law in your country.

[Kemalist]

Not really, Mussolini won an election with a great percentage. So did Hitler.

Neither of them did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_ge ... tion,_1924
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fed ... March_1933

[Risottia]

Neither of them did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_ge ... tion,_1924
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fed ... March_1933

Same sources:
The National Bloc of Benito Mussolini (an alliance with Catholics, Liberals and Conservatives) used intimidation tactics,[2]

The election took place after the Nazi Machtergreifung of 30 January when President Paul von Hindenburg had appointed Hitler Chancellor, who immediately urged the dissolution of the Reichstag and the arrangement of new elections. In early February, the Nazis "unleashed a campaign of violence and terror that dwarfed anything seen so far."


Not fulfilling any criterium to call those "elections".
Also, neither Hitler's nor Mussolini's party gained a majority ALONE.

Still, they had support.

[Kemalist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_ge ... tion,_1924
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fed ... March_1933

Same sources:
The National Bloc of Benito Mussolini (an alliance with Catholics, Liberals and Conservatives) used intimidation tactics,[2]

The election took place after the Nazi Machtergreifung of 30 January when President Paul von Hindenburg had appointed Hitler Chancellor, who immediately urged the dissolution of the Reichstag and the arrangement of new elections. In early February, the Nazis "unleashed a campaign of violence and terror that dwarfed anything seen so far."


Not fulfilling any criterium to call those "elections".
Also, neither Hitler's nor Mussolini's party gained a majority ALONE.

Still, they had support.

Still; there were elections at the least. Did Taliban win any elections whether corrupted or not?

[Risottia]

Too be honest, Im surprised Russia has a number that high, and Turkey has a number that low.

Don't worry, it's most probably much lower than the percentage of people who wish for the Halakha law in your country.

I'm surprised by Russia (to a point: Dagestan, Chechnya...), and by Turkey... because I expected the support for Sharia in Turkey to be even LOWER than it turned out in that poll.

[Risottia]

Still; there were elections at the least.

Well, let's say so... quite a stretch anyway.

Did Taliban win any elections whether corrupted or not?

I would guess the Talibunnies rejected any idea of election because that's Western atheojewochristian cultural imperialism...

[DogDoo 7]

Too be honest, Im surprised Russia has a number that high, and Turkey has a number that low.

Don't worry, it's most probably much lower than the percentage of people who wish for the Halakha law in your country.

He's a Yored (someone who left Israel, it literally means "descender" as in to go down from)

We HAVE halakha. Thankfully, Judaism is generally tolerant of apostates and there were a lot of books written about why even though the Bible says we have to stone people, why we actually don't have to stone people. It's mostly just annoying laws (i.e. no state-owned buses on Saturdays) rather than cartoonishly evil laws.

[Kemalist]

Don't worry, it's most probably much lower than the percentage of people who wish for the Halakha law in your country.

I'm surprised by Russia (to a point: Dagestan, Chechnya...), and by Turkey... because I expected the support for Sharia in Turkey to be even LOWER than it turned out in that poll.

It's more or less normal, in a local poll %8 was in favour of a constitution not including secularism.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/more-s ... &nid=35272

[Risottia]

I'm surprised by Russia (to a point: Dagestan, Chechnya...), and by Turkey... because I expected the support for Sharia in Turkey to be even LOWER than it turned out in that poll.

It's more or less normal, in a local poll %8 was in favour of a constitution not including secularism.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/more-s ... &nid=35272

Argh.
I shudder to think what would result if Italy had a poll about Catholicism becoming the state religion again.

[Kemalist]

Still; there were elections at the least.

Well, let's say so... quite a stretch anyway.

Did Taliban win any elections whether corrupted or not?

I would guess the Talibunnies rejected any idea of election because that's Western atheojewochristian cultural imperialism...

That was my point, these are different things, Hitler and Mussolini had a great public support and won elections no matter how controversial they were, Taliban just took over in a flash and even so; it did not have full authority over the whole country.

[Kemalist]

It's more or less normal, in a local poll %8 was in favour of a constitution not including secularism.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/more-s ... &nid=35272

Argh.
I shudder to think what would result if Italy had a poll about Catholicism becoming the state religion again.

What do you think ? %35 of Americans seem to support the Christianity being a state religion btw.

[Kemalist]

Don't worry, it's most probably much lower than the percentage of people who wish for the Halakha law in your country.

He's a Yored (someone who left Israel, it literally means "descender" as in to go down from)

We HAVE halakha. Thankfully, Judaism is generally tolerant of apostates and there were a lot of books written about why even though the Bible says we have to stone people, why we actually don't have to stone people. It's mostly just annoying laws (i.e. no state-owned buses on Saturdays) rather than cartoonishly evil laws.

How do you know all those people who spoke in favour of Sharia law would also support stoning and killing of apostates ? for Indonesia; over %70 is in favour of Sharia, but only %18 supports death penalty for apostates according to the same research.