Isn't it strange...?

[Hydesland]

It's irrelevant in that it has no effect on who you are, how you operate, etc.

Yes it does, it has an effect on how others may treat you.

[Pevisopolis]

Isn't quite odd that white Liberals, generally well off, upper middle class, white collar workers born into generally well off, upper middle class, white collar families living in mostly white, upper middle class communities, seem to have a profound insight to the psyche of the poor and black (and especially the black poor)?

Are you claiming middle class white folks tend to be wiggers?

By Cloven-hoolves, what is a 'wigger'?

...So you believe that lefties are human incarnations of the Devil?

[Rhodmhire]

Um...are you saying racial inequalities and discrimination are going to go away if those in a position of power choose to ignore them?

I would say that it would be more efficient to focus on how much Wealth there is to go around, rather than race in particular...

^This, finally.

If youre working on helping everyone who's poor, and it just so happens that the majority of them are of a particular race, so be it, noone can say you are helping them in particular, no harm no foul...

^Again, this--finally.

[Rhodmhire]

It's irrelevant in that it has no effect on who you are, how you operate, etc.

Yes it does, it has an effect on how others may treat you.

I don't care much for the imbeciles who wish to treat me poorly based on such an irrelevant trait as race. Now my work effort and determination, that's one thing, those are very relevant to how I operate and who I am as a person--those are things you should judge people by, if you're going to judge them at all.

And that's a primary reason people need to learn the truth that race is a worthless tool to judge, although people who are judged by them should have the audacity and backbone to shake them off like dust on their shoulder.

And it still doesn't present a direct effect on how you operate, if I'm put in a room with no human interaction and asked to do a task that a black man will also do in a seperate room with no human interaction beyond observation by those who are tracking results--I'm not going to operate better/worse based on my skin coloration.

It's still not a direct factor.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Well I'm half black.
So half of the time I get them.
Half of the time I don't.

Which half? *examines*

[Rhodmhire]

Well I'm half black.
So half of the time I get them.
Half of the time I don't.

Which half? *examines*

More than often it's the left, but it differs from peson to person.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Well I'm half black.
So half of the time I get them.
Half of the time I don't.

Which half? *examines*

More than often it's the left, but it differs from peson to person.

If I were half black, I'd want it to be the lower half. *nod*

[Iron Chariots]

I know! It's almost like you can be privileged and have a sense of empathy at the same time!

How dare anybody do that? The poor are plebeian masses to be exploited; they are not actually people.

[Rhodmhire]

If I were half black, I'd want it to be the lower half. *nod*

Found it, finally.

EDIT: Curse you faulty images, and your tendency to shit out on me when I need you most.

[Tokos]

The color of my skin is, well, the coloration of my skin relative to the area of the world I live in and my biological genetics. It has absolutely no effect on me other than defining what color I am.

Very nice, but race is far more than skin colour. It's pretty well established that there are small (but, we being human, important) differences in way of thinking between Oriental people and European people, and it's my opinion that, for instance, black people are always going to mostly prefer different types of music to white people… it's absurd to think that we're "all the same". But the point is you can't just ignore something sensibly. More than that, though, race is often a proxy (people from X country think a certain way because of their culture, not because of their race, but their race *happens* to be different to those in country Y), so when people talk about colour-blindness it doesn't really help if the cause is more than that.

I know! It's almost like you can be privileged and have a sense of empathy at the same time!

But if you're Billy Bragg, you like to lecture the masses on the benefits of multiculturalism from… Dorset… which destroys your credibility somewhat.

Edit: Not really trying to prove a point with this… more like I'm a hopeless contrarian and everyone's fecked off = boredom

[Rhodmhire]

Very nice, but race is far more than skin colour.

I am aware of other traits that differ from race to race. Again, not relevant to how they operate. Just defines their physical character.

It's pretty well established that there are small (but, we being human, important) differences in way of thinking between Oriental people and European people.

And that's based on race, not opinions based on race, but race itself--how?

But the point is you can't just ignore something sensibly.

I'm not ignoring it, I established that prior to this comment.

More than that, though, race is often a proxy (people from X country think a certain way because of their culture, not because of their race, but their race *happens* to be different to those in country Y), so when people talk about colour-blindness it doesn't really help if the cause is more than that.

[/quote]

I kind of followed that, and if I read you correctly--I agree that race can just happen to take the place of cultural differences, which are in their own way a different ballpark.

And yes, race can be a proxy (I'm shakey on what you mean by "proxy," so I'll asume it's what I'm describing, feel free to clarify if I missed it by a long shot) but that doesn't mean it's correctly intended to be so.

And I'm not blind, I don't ignore it, I just don't see much reason to make it relevant in my mind. It's a waste of space, for the most part.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't ignore it, I just don't see any continuous reason(s) to make it relevant or of concern.

You call it ignoring, I call it saving time and reservations in my mind for other, more progressive things.

Sorry, but that's a nonsense.

We shouldn't care about race. I don't care about race. We should try to help those who need help, regardless of skintone, etc - but there are real problems about 'race', so it is relevant and a cause of concern. Not because we should care about race, but because we MUST care about racism.

[LOL ANARCHY NUBZ]

Clearly we should leave it up to conservatives to talk about race, since they're far more 'street' and don't have a bad historical record on race issues or anything.

Or we could all stop such prominent regression and just drop the issue as a whole as anything close to relevant or up for debate/discussion.

Um...are you saying racial inequalities and discrimination are going to go away if those in a position of power choose to ignore them?

What racial discrimination/inequalities?

[Yenke-Bin]

I'm Liberal because I grew up poor, am still poor, and see so many other poor people. I do what I can to help alleviate their pain and poverty. If they are black, then fine. If white, fine. I don't care. I am liberal because I care. And I feel that if other liberals grew up poor, especially those high class whities that you talked about in the OP, they'd do so much more to help out the poor in this country. Instead, upper class libs like to talk a lot, but actually do very little. I don't care if you can come up with a theory on why urban blacks are poor. I care if you can come up with a way to alleviate that problem.

[Rhodmhire]

Clearly we should leave it up to conservatives to talk about race, since they're far more 'street' and don't have a bad historical record on race issues or anything.

Or we could all stop such prominent regression and just drop the issue as a whole as anything close to relevant or up for debate/discussion.

Um...are you saying racial inequalities and discrimination are going to go away if those in a position of power choose to ignore them?

What racial discrimination/inequalities?

The seemingly endless streams of them derived from man's inability to continulously judge his fellow man properly, in itself derived from man's own imperfection and lack of continuous universal agreement.

[Tokos]

I don't ignore it, I just don't see any continuous reason(s) to make it relevant or of concern.

You call it ignoring, I call it saving time and reservations in my mind for other, more progressive things.

Sorry, but that's a nonsense.

We shouldn't care about race. I don't care about race. We should try to help those who need help, regardless of skintone, etc - but there are real problems about 'race', so it is relevant and a cause of concern. Not because we should care about race, but because we MUST care about racism.

In the USA?

[LOL ANARCHY NUBZ]

Clearly we should leave it up to conservatives to talk about race, since they're far more 'street' and don't have a bad historical record on race issues or anything.

Or we could all stop such prominent regression and just drop the issue as a whole as anything close to relevant or up for debate/discussion.

Um...are you saying racial inequalities and discrimination are going to go away if those in a position of power choose to ignore them?

What racial discrimination/inequalities?

The seemingly endless streams of them derived from man's inability to continulously judge his fellow man properly, in itself derived from man's own imperfection and lack of continuous universal agreement.

I just don't notice any of them *shrugs*

[Cameroi]

i was not born upper class, but it was at a time when middle class pretty much included almost everyone who had any kind of steady job. my ancestry is very mixed, though i must confess to my skin being rather light in tone. i do see all people as people though. and grew up going for long walks alone in the woods where i saw four legged people being people too.

my father didn't know very much indiginous tradition and my mother was a city girl, although she had been raised in jewish traditions and knew quite a bit about that, even though there was very little opportunity to practice either.

but my dad did manage to teach me how to walk in the woods in such a way as to not scare away everything you might want to see.

whenever i experience an injustice, or witness someone else doing so, or appearing to do so, i ask myself how people could live in such ways as to prevent this from happining. i've done this all my life, from when i was a very young child. both of my perents encouraged me in doing this, though i don't know if either of them realized they were doing so. i think my dad may have a little bit.

neither of them did this themselves very well, although i think my dad mostly wanted to, and in many ways came close.

so i don't think there's anything "strange" about humans being honest with themselves enough to see people who don't look like themselves individually very much as just as much human as themselves.
what is, if anything, "strange" in the negative sense (using strangeness in a negative sense is itself strange if people could only know, but that's a subject for another time), is a dominant culture that has been twisted for the political ends of economic interests, into this nonsense of seperating people on the basis of superficialities of appearance or ancestral beliefs and politico-economic inclinations.

[Rhodmhire]

I don't ignore it, I just don't see any continuous reason(s) to make it relevant or of concern.

You call it ignoring, I call it saving time and reservations in my mind for other, more progressive things.

Sorry, but that's a nonsense.

We shouldn't care about race. I don't care about race. We should try to help those who need help, regardless of skintone, etc - but there are real problems about 'race', so it is relevant and a cause of concern. Not because we should care about race, but because we MUST care about racism.

You think I don't want to end racism? I don't think it's ever going to fully end, I'm very certain it's not going to in my lifetime. That doesn't mean I want to let it progress, or that I don't want to fight it.

I don't have to think race is a relevant factor in human action(s) in itself to dislike/want to fight racism.

It's derived, racism, from the presumption that race is a prominent and viable factor to assert judgement and, thus, allowing one to equate bad traits towards others. Of course I'm against it, it's the radiance of those who equate race to something prominent and relevant for judgement/action(s) taken on by the said judged.

Do I think people can make too big a deal out of it? Yes. Do I think it's as prominent and harmful as it was a few decades ago? No. Do I wish people could combat it by letting it die on its own without having to combat it? Yes. Is it possible? Yes. Is it always possible? No.

There's a difference between me thinking it's relevant for racism to end--since it's derived from the irrelevance of race as a factor of judgement--and me thinking race needs to be brought up by politicians or in politics to relate to the poor/rich, or to base the political ideology/ies of a party.

Which was my initial point, it doesn't need to be brought up because of its lack of substance and the fact that its involvement in politics isn't going to do anything about racism or the harm done by it.

It's you and I who are going to act upon it, and it's not going to be through political ideology, political speeches or laws.

[Rhodmhire]

I just don't notice any of them *shrugs*

Lucky you, maybe someday nobody will notice them, as we'll all smarten up and work to establish them as non-existent.

But that won't happen in my lifetime, and knowing humanity, it probably isn't going to happen at all fully.

[Jocabia]

Clearly we should leave it up to conservatives to talk about race, since they're far more 'street' and don't have a bad historical record on race issues or anything.

Or we could all stop such prominent regression and just drop the issue as a whole as anything close to relevant or up for debate/discussion.

Um...are you saying racial inequalities and discrimination are going to go away if those in a position of power choose to ignore them?

They're never going to go away.

We don't need to fool ourselves into thinking big powerful speeches or laws or statements are going to change that, I'm not saying they're going to go away, I'm not even saying they need to go away--nothing in that whole side of the spectrum.

I'm saying they don't need to bring them up, not in an attempt to destroy them, but just because it won't change anything for better or for worse. If anything, there's not much to discuss to begin with--hence, a good reason to not bring it up in the first place: lack of substance.

Perhaps it's not so much irrelevant as it is implausible to alter through a position of power, but it remains irrelevant as a factor of basic, and even more intricate, human action(s).

The changes over the last fifty years and the fact that black people at least have a chance to make it to highest echelons of power beg to differ. That didn't just happen. It took work and there is still more work to do.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Isn't quite odd that white Liberals, generally well off, upper middle class, white collar workers born into generally well off, upper middle class, white collar families living in mostly white, upper middle class communities, seem to have a profound insight to the psyche of the poor and black (and especially the black poor)?

You are worth no one's time.

[Tunizcha]

I am not white, no where near 'well off', upper lower class, and I don't even work. I was born into a family that is not white, less than poor, lower lower class, and blue collar. So yes, I do have the insight to the psyche of the poor (black has nothing to do with it; it is just a coincidence that the ghetto [lower class] is comprised mostly of black people, thus leading to their children having less education, which continues the vicious cycle).

[Allbeama]

I don't know about middle class, but I live the life a dirt fucking poor liberal and yes I am white. But it doesn't take being black to know that prejudice and injustice is wrong, Mr. Trolling Ghastly Nations.