The Economist Says Affirmative Action Is Bad Unsurprise

[Wamitoria]

Not really.

YES actually forcing a company to have a certain amount of minoritys in it is wrong I bet if I wasn't given the job at a company run by a black or I got fired for no reason and i tried to sue for wrongful termination I would be called a racist.

That may be. But you would be completely justified in a legal sense and would probably win your case assuming you had ground to claim wrongful termination or discriminatory hiring practices.

[The Broken Imperial Sector]

No I won't try and say that racism and sexism is dead. But all affermitve action does is hold minority's hands and telling them that if they don't get the job it's because the company is racist.

And in the same light, because I'm black and support affirmative action, I must be a lazy nigger who wants free stuff, right?

Or, we can just grow the fuck up and not enter into tin foil hat territory.

Hey i'm not calling anyone "lazy" i'm just saying if you can't get the job blame yourself not the dam company.

[Mavorpen]

And in the same light, because I'm black and support affirmative action, I must be a lazy nigger who wants free stuff, right?

Or, we can just grow the fuck up and not enter into tin foil hat territory.

Hey i'm not calling anyone "lazy" i'm just saying if you can't get the job blame yourself not the dam company.

No. See, I can blame the company. Doesn't mean I will. But I can. I have the right to. And I have the right to sue them. Why do you hate freedom?

[The Broken Imperial Sector]

YES actually forcing a company to have a certain amount of minoritys in it is wrong I bet if I wasn't given the job at a company run by a black or I got fired for no reason and i tried to sue for wrongful termination I would be called a racist.

That may be. But you would be completely justified in a legal sense and would probably win your case assuming you had ground to claim wrongful termination or discriminatory hiring practices.

True but even if I won it would become a big deal because a white claimed to be discriminated against.

[New Chalcedon]

I say get rid of it. All it does is hold minority's hands who want equal rights as us and now that they have them it should no longer be in effect.

Do they hold "equal rights"? Do they really? Consider:

Justice: From the Wall Street Journal, an anti-affirmative-action source (just so you cannot accuse me of cherry-picking my sources):

Prison sentences of black men were nearly 20% longer than those of white men for similar crimes in recent years, an analysis by the U.S. Sentencing Commission found.

Also, from The Sentencing Project (pdf):

The Pennsylvania study found that, controlling for other factors, including severity of the offense and prior criminal history, white men aged 18-29 were 38 percent less likely to be sentenced to prison than black men of the same age group. In addition, white men of this age group were sentenced to an average prison term that was almost three months shorter than that given to black men of this age group.

Racial profiling is also a factor in determining how the police treat you even if you've never been arrested:

The officer who surreptitiously recorded the conversation last month, Pedro Serrano, began pressing Inspector McCormack about who he meant by the “right people.” The conversation grew heated.

After an exchange about Mott Haven, a particularly crime-prone neighborhood, the inspector suggested that the police needed to conduct street stops of the people creating “the most problems” there.

“The problem was, what, male blacks,” Inspector McCormack said. “And I told you at roll call, and I have no problem telling you this, male blacks 14 to 20, 21.”

Not to mention that the inadequate provision of counsel for accused persons - as mandated by the Constitution! - has led to poorer people (i.e., mostly non-whites) being far more likely to be convicted of crimes they haven't committed:

Guilty pleas account for about 95% of all criminal convictions. In many courts, poor people are processed through the courts without lawyers or moments after speaking for a few minutes with lawyers they just met and will never see again. This is called "meet 'em and plead 'em" or "McJustice."

Fifty years ago this week, one of the Supreme Court's most celebrated cases, Gideon vs. Wainwright, established the right of criminal defendants to have a lawyer. The cases above are stark examples of how that right is violated every day across the nation.

Then we'll look at economics, shall we?

The authors find that applicants with white-sounding names are 50 percent more likely to get called for an initial interview than applicants with African-American-sounding names. Applicants with white names need to send about 10 resumes to get one callback, whereas applicants with African-American names need to send about 15 resumes to achieve the same result.

In addition, race greatly affects how much applicants benefit from having more experience and credentials. White job applicants with higher-quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower-quality resumes. Having a higher-quality resume has a much smaller impact on African-American applicants, who experienced only 9 percent more callbacks for the same improvement in their credentials. This disparity suggests that in the current state of the labor market, African-Americans may not have strong individual incentives to build better resumes.

The fact that you can sit your smug backside on your cushioned chair, and tell me that equality before the law, or in hiring, or in any other substantive sense, exists in any practical fashion only reveals the extent of the delusions that white privilege can foster.

Not really.

YES actually forcing a company to have a certain amount of minoritys in it is wrong I bet if I wasn't given the job at a company run by a black or I got fired for no reason and i tried to sue for wrongful termination I would be called a racist.

Bullshit. Suing for wrongful termination does not make you a racist - and only a kooky fringe of people will call you racist on that basis.

I'm fully opposed to affirmative action on principle and partially because it will not ever be extended to White people even for when they become the minority in America.

And what of the ongoing affirmative action and privilege extended to whites on the basis of their skin colour, as detailed (in very, very small part) above? Are you opposed to that as well? If so, please state at least one specific public policy you would advocate to deal with it.

[Wamitoria]

That may be. But you would be completely justified in a legal sense and would probably win your case assuming you had ground to claim wrongful termination or discriminatory hiring practices.

True but even if I won it would become a big deal because a white claimed to be discriminated against.

It does happen. It's just that those who often claim it happens pretend its systemic. Discrimination against "white people" in general isn't systemic.

Discrimination against individual ethnicities that make up the category "white people" is much more common.

[The Broken Imperial Sector]

Hey i'm not calling anyone "lazy" i'm just saying if you can't get the job blame yourself not the dam company.

No. See, I can blame the company. Doesn't mean I will. But I can. I have the right to. And I have the right to sue them. Why do you hate freedom?

So if a white gets the job over you your going to sue the company or call them racist? And freedom is just and idea it holds no value other than allowing man to indulge himself.

[Mavorpen]

That may be. But you would be completely justified in a legal sense and would probably win your case assuming you had ground to claim wrongful termination or discriminatory hiring practices.

True but even if I won it would become a big deal because a white claimed to be discriminated against.

No it wouldn't. Because this is done on a regular basis. There have literally been tons of these lawsuits instigated by whites, and no one really bats an eye. There's the occasional sensationalist article about it, but by no means would it become a big deal unless it went to the Supreme Court.

[Saiwania]

Actually, should systematic discrimination begin occurring against white people being employed in America, they would be covered under these laws.

No they wouldn't. The explanation would be that non-Whites are simply getting revenge for the Whites' history of imperialism. Give one single example of a White person being chosen over a non-White exclusively because of affirmative action?

[Greed and Death]

Chief Justice Roberts

Sums up my view.

The Chief Justice is a ass.

Yes I know everyone who disagrees with you is an Ass.
They are also clearly racist too right ?

[Wamitoria]

Actually, should systematic discrimination begin occurring against white people being employed in America, they would be covered under these laws.

No they wouldn't. The explanation would be that non-Whites are simply getting revenge for the Whites' history of imperialism. Give one single example of a White person being chosen over a non-White exclusively because of affirmative action?

I can't. But then again, I have literally no experience as a person who hires employees, being a 19-year old college student and all.

[Ifreann]

Not really.

YES actually forcing a company to have a certain amount of minoritys in it is wrong

Quota based hiring policies have been illegal in the US for years now. But all else being equal, companies should have a diverse workforce roughly in line with the make-up of their catchment area. If they don't, questions need to be asked. Are the hiring policies really fair to everyone? Is notice of open positions really getting to every area it realistically should be? Is it just random happen-stance?

I bet if I wasn't given the job at a company run by a black or I got fired for no reason and i tried to sue for wrongful termination I would be called a racist.

I'm inclined to call you a racist because you seem to really, really want someone to.

---

No I won't try and say that racism and sexism is dead. But all affermitve action does is hold minority's hands and telling them that if they don't get the job it's because the company is racist.

And in the same light, because I'm black and support affirmative action, I must be a lazy nigger who wants free stuff, right?

Or, we can just grow the fuck up and not enter into tin foil hat territory.

In fairness, I can't imagine you'd turn down some free stuff. I'm whiter than milk and I sure wouldn't.

[Ayreonia]

Well, I'm sure many of "you" (whatever demographic "you" is) do, but the point is that with AA you don't necessarily have to do quite as much to achieve the same outcome.

Yes, we do.

What's the point, then?

[Mavorpen]

Yes, we do.

What's the point, then?

What?

[The Broken Imperial Sector]

True but even if I won it would become a big deal because a white claimed to be discriminated against.

It does happen. It's just that those who often claim it happens pretend its systemic. Discrimination against "white people" in general isn't systemic.

Discrimination against individual ethnicities that make up the category "white people" is much more common.

That's true discrimination tends to be more or less random against anyone not systemic. And which individual ethnicities?

[Parhe]

How about we stop using racing and rather use social class or income groups and poverty levels or such? That way the people who need it most I would think gets a leg up regardless of race or ethnicity.

[Wamitoria]

Yes, we do.

What's the point, then?

A black person doing the same thing I do (as a white person) is significantly less likely to receive the same rewards.

That's the point of Affirmative Action.

[The Broken Imperial Sector]

Actually, should systematic discrimination begin occurring against white people being employed in America, they would be covered under these laws.

No they wouldn't. The explanation would be that non-Whites are simply getting revenge for the Whites' history of imperialism. Give one single example of a White person being chosen over a non-White exclusively because of affirmative action?

Oh don't give me that whole what comes around goes around bullshit!

[Mavorpen]

What's the point, then?

A black person doing the same thing I do (as a white person) is significantly less likely to receive the same rewards.

That's the point of Affirmative Action.

Are you saying I can get less women than you?

I accept your challenge.

[The Broken Imperial Sector]

True but even if I won it would become a big deal because a white claimed to be discriminated against.

No it wouldn't. Because this is done on a regular basis. There have literally been tons of these lawsuits instigated by whites, and no one really bats an eye. There's the occasional sensationalist article about it, but by no means would it become a big deal unless it went to the Supreme Court.

Because people refuse to acknowledge that whites can be discriminated against.

[Wamitoria]

How about we stop using racing and rather use social class or income groups and poverty levels or such? That way the people who need it most I would think gets a leg up regardless of race or ethnicity.

I definitely think that Affirmative Action should factor in social class. Especially in college/university admissions.

But that doesn't mean we can pretend that race-based inequality doesn't exist.

[Mavorpen]

Actually, should systematic discrimination begin occurring against white people being employed in America, they would be covered under these laws.

No they wouldn't. The explanation would be that non-Whites are simply getting revenge for the Whites' history of imperialism. Give one single example of a White person being chosen over a non-White exclusively because of affirmative action?

How about you not ask loaded questions.

[Ifreann]

And in the same light, because I'm black and support affirmative action, I must be a lazy nigger who wants free stuff, right?

Or, we can just grow the fuck up and not enter into tin foil hat territory.

Hey i'm not calling anyone "lazy" i'm just saying if you can't get the job blame yourself not the dam company.

If you can't get a job, blame yourself, not affirmative action.

---

Actually, should systematic discrimination begin occurring against white people being employed in America, they would be covered under these laws.

No they wouldn't. The explanation would be that non-Whites are simply getting revenge for the Whites' history of imperialism. Give one single example of a White person being chosen over a non-White exclusively because of affirmative action?

"The future I'm imagining is racist against white people!" Forgive us we don't care.

---

The Chief Justice is a ass.

Yes I know everyone who disagrees with you is an Ass.
A ass. Lrn2Dickens.

They are also clearly racist too right ?

No, just a ass.

[Wamitoria]

A black person doing the same thing I do (as a white person) is significantly less likely to receive the same rewards.

That's the point of Affirmative Action.

Are you saying I can get less women than you?

I accept your challenge.

Not at all what I meant.

[Mavorpen]

No it wouldn't. Because this is done on a regular basis. There have literally been tons of these lawsuits instigated by whites, and no one really bats an eye. There's the occasional sensationalist article about it, but by no means would it become a big deal unless it went to the Supreme Court.

Because people refuse to acknowledge that whites can be discriminated against.

Bullshit.