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Your View of Homosexuality?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Your View of Homosexuality

Your Born that way
366
42%
It's a choice
96
11%
It's a sin
97
11%
Who really cares?
249
29%
Karl Marx
65
7%
 
Total votes : 873

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Agymnum
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Posts: 7393
Founded: Jul 31, 2012
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Postby Agymnum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:47 pm

Cosara wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
Following stupid laws makes you as stupid as the policymakers who implemented such stupid laws.

The Federal ban on Marijuana is a stupid law. Does that mean that I'm as stupid as Congress for following it?


If you want to smoke weed and that's the only reason you're not, yeah you're pretty stupid for complying with it.

Not saying you're not going to get arrested, but if the ONLY reason you're not doing something is because of a stupid law, you're pretty stupid.
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Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Valcouria » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:48 pm

The U S S R wrote:
Cosara wrote:Then what is it, cause I'm pretty sure that it's Sunday.

Sunday is the first day of the week.

I'm not sure, but I think there are calendars were Mondays are placed before Sundays...like I said, not sure on that, but I could have sworn I saw that somewhere before.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
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CIS Shadowfeed
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Apr 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby CIS Shadowfeed » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:48 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
If it was a genetic defect, it wouldn't be so common. Genetic defects which spread enough to become fairly permanent in a population are called traits.

Also, homosexuality is perfectly natural. Plenty of animals participate in it. Saying it's unnatural is objectively wrong.

The only point that comes from the fact that some animals do it is that it is a defect that is present not only in the human mind. And of course it's unnatural; as I said, without science, they could not reproduce naturally with each other ( I should point out that I do not support the methods of artificial [or, as I like to call it, unnatural] insemination).

Hey artificial insemination is a good way to produce better offspring between two animals without the father being present. It helps better traits to be passed on to more offspring and for the agricultural industry to improve. Agriculture is a huge part of the income for the US.

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Wisconsin9
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Posts: 35753
Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:48 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:A belief that is not scientifically backed up.

...I would think that you wouldn't need to point out the fact that 'belief' does not necessarily need to be scientifically backed up. We Christians believe in things too...which, suffice to say, is sorely lacking in the modern world.

Because a good chunk of the world is tired of blindly following orders, rather justified considering exactly how well that worked out last century.

I think we're done here. You refuse to be swayed by logic or provide scientific evidence, which are the only tools I have and I'm not going to be swayed without them. We've established that there's absolutely nothing we can do to convince the other. Good night to you sir.
~~~~~~~~
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Agymnum
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Posts: 7393
Founded: Jul 31, 2012
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Postby Agymnum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:48 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:A belief that is not scientifically backed up.

...I would think that you wouldn't need to point out the fact that 'belief' does not necessarily need to be scientifically backed up. We Christians believe in things too...which, suffice to say, is sorely lacking in the modern world.


The reason it's lacking is because blind belief is stupid.

It needs to go away. Far away. Far, far away.
Glorious puppet of Highfort

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Umbra Ac Silentium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11724
Founded: Aug 03, 2010
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Umbra Ac Silentium » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:48 pm

Cosara wrote:
Umbra Ac Silentium wrote:The Sabbath is Saturday; the LAST day of the week.
Aka day number seven.

It's six.

Have you looked at a calendar?
Last edited by Umbra Ac Silentium on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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User avatar
Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Valcouria » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:49 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Valcouria wrote:...I would think that you wouldn't need to point out the fact that 'belief' does not necessarily need to be scientifically backed up. We Christians believe in things too...which, suffice to say, is sorely lacking in the modern world.


To be a good belief yes it does.

Good is subjective; some people like myself believe it is good to oppose the devaluation of marriage into including groups that it was not meant for.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:49 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Cosara wrote:So is the law against mixed fabrics, but I'm trying to bring myself into compliance with it.


Following stupid laws makes you as stupid as the policymakers who implemented such stupid laws.


They are still laws though, so no matter what we do we must follow laws from our government.

However, you may challenge certain laws and have them repealed. Doesn't mean you'll straight up disobey them at peril of your good name being tarnished.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32063
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:49 pm

Valcouria wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
Some things are just objectively stupid. Not wearing mixed fabrics because some dude in the sky told you not to, that's stupid no matter how you look at it.

Abortion is subjectively stupid depending if you believe a fetus to be a human being with rights nor not.

Some people believe in the existence of the 'dude in the sky', and prefer to follow His laws as He told us to.


So you not only speak Hebrew, Ancient Greek, and Aramaic but have access to the original books? Because if you don't you're following His laws as a series of translators told you.
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Agymnum
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7393
Founded: Jul 31, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Agymnum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:50 pm

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
Following stupid laws makes you as stupid as the policymakers who implemented such stupid laws.


They are still laws though, so no matter what we do we must follow laws from our government.

However, you may challenge certain laws and have them repealed. Doesn't mean you'll straight up disobey them at peril of your good name being tarnished.


Some white people against segregation joined their black brethren in opposing it via sit-ins and boycotts.

You know who were stupid? All those white people who were against segregation but wiped their hands clean of it when the government said segregation was okay in Plessy v. Ferguson.
Glorious puppet of Highfort

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Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32063
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:50 pm

Valcouria wrote:Good is subjective; some people like myself believe it is good to oppose the devaluation of marriage into including groups that it was not meant for.


No it's not. Good in this case means substantiated by evidence.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Valcouria » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:50 pm

CIS Shadowfeed wrote:
Valcouria wrote:The only point that comes from the fact that some animals do it is that it is a defect that is present not only in the human mind. And of course it's unnatural; as I said, without science, they could not reproduce naturally with each other ( I should point out that I do not support the methods of artificial [or, as I like to call it, unnatural] insemination).

Hey artificial insemination is a good way to produce better offspring between two animals without the father being present. It helps better traits to be passed on to more offspring and for the agricultural industry to improve. Agriculture is a huge part of the income for the US.

Agriculture is different that human lives. For one, humans are blessed with self-awareness and cognitive abilities.

Just as well, I fervently believe that children need to grow up with their biological mother and father.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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Cosara
Senator
 
Posts: 4339
Founded: Nov 06, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cosara » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:50 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Cosara wrote:The Federal ban on Marijuana is a stupid law. Does that mean that I'm as stupid as Congress for following it?


If you want to smoke weed and that's the only reason you're not, yeah you're pretty stupid for complying with it.

Not saying you're not going to get arrested, but if the ONLY reason you're not doing something is because of a stupid law, you're pretty stupid.

I support the Legalization of Marijuana.
"Do not lose hope; St. Joseph also had moments of doubt. but he never lost faith and was able to overcome them in the certainty that God never abandons us." -Pope Francis

"We are never defeated unless we give up on god." -Ronald Reagan

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Agymnum
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7393
Founded: Jul 31, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Agymnum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:51 pm

Valcouria wrote:
CIS Shadowfeed wrote:Hey artificial insemination is a good way to produce better offspring between two animals without the father being present. It helps better traits to be passed on to more offspring and for the agricultural industry to improve. Agriculture is a huge part of the income for the US.

Agriculture is different that human lives. For one, humans are blessed with self-awareness and cognitive abilities.

Just as well, I fervently believe that children need to grow up with their biological mother and father.


I believe if the biological father and mother are stupid fucks who abuse or neglect their children, their children ought to be raised by loving surrogates.

Parenting is more than just being flesh-and-blood related.
Glorious puppet of Highfort

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Wisconsin9
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35753
Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:51 pm

Valcouria wrote:
CIS Shadowfeed wrote:Hey artificial insemination is a good way to produce better offspring between two animals without the father being present. It helps better traits to be passed on to more offspring and for the agricultural industry to improve. Agriculture is a huge part of the income for the US.

Agriculture is different that human lives. For one, humans are blessed with self-awareness and cognitive abilities.

Just as well, I fervently believe that children need to grow up with their biological mother and father.

Why exactly do you believe that?
~~~~~~~~
We are currently 33% through the Trump administration.
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Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:51 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
They are still laws though, so no matter what we do we must follow laws from our government.

However, you may challenge certain laws and have them repealed. Doesn't mean you'll straight up disobey them at peril of your good name being tarnished.


Some white people against segregation joined their black brethren in opposing it via sit-ins and boycotts.

You know who were stupid? All those white people who were against segregation but wiped their hands clean of it when the government said segregation was okay in Plessy v. Ferguson.


Which is what I meant by "challenging" them.

I mean, it's not like you'll rise up in arms against the government, but you do have the right to protest and oppose it. Freedom of expression.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Arkiasis
Senator
 
Posts: 3586
Founded: Aug 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Arkiasis » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:52 pm

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
Following stupid laws makes you as stupid as the policymakers who implemented such stupid laws.


They are still laws though, so no matter what we do we must follow laws from our government.

However, you may challenge certain laws and have them repealed. Doesn't mean you'll straight up disobey them at peril of your good name being tarnished.



The USA was founded on disobeying unjust laws. The Civil Rights movement also involved disobeying unjust laws, Rosa Parks got attention by getting arrested for a stupid law. Plus the sit-ins at segregated establishments helped those stupid laws get repelled. If you're apart of the minority, democracy isn't going to work in your favour.
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The U S S R
Envoy
 
Posts: 213
Founded: Mar 06, 2013
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Postby The U S S R » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:52 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
Cosara wrote:So is the law against mixed fabrics, but I'm trying to bring myself into compliance with it.

:palm:
Hi. Catholic who went to a religious school for 8 years here.

The new covenant formed between God and Man upon Jesus' death upon the cross made those laws and restrictions present in the Old Testament invalid as every person was reborn in Christ.

If you don't accept this, you need to start sacrificing lambs, because those are laws in the Old Testament as well. I'd suggest talking to a spiritual advisor.

TOPIC related note here: Any 'laws' supposedly laid down against homosexuality (the existence of which is debated) are also made invalid by this.

That was so beautifully stated that I posted it on Facebook.
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Agymnum
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Founded: Jul 31, 2012
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Postby Agymnum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:53 pm

Cosara wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
If you want to smoke weed and that's the only reason you're not, yeah you're pretty stupid for complying with it.

Not saying you're not going to get arrested, but if the ONLY reason you're not doing something is because of a stupid law, you're pretty stupid.

I support the Legalization of Marijuana.


That's well and good. I support the legalization of marijuana for tax purposes. I do not, however, smoke marijuana because I do not have the time nor the money to support such a habit.

If marijuana were legal, I would not suddenly start smoking it because I still wouldn't have the time nor the money.

The law itself is irrelevant to whether I do something or not. If the only reason you don't murder people, rob from people, or rape people is because of the law, you're stupid.
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Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Arkiasis wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
They are still laws though, so no matter what we do we must follow laws from our government.

However, you may challenge certain laws and have them repealed. Doesn't mean you'll straight up disobey them at peril of your good name being tarnished.



The USA was founded on disobeying unjust laws. The Civil Rights movement also involved disobeying unjust laws, Rosa Parks got attention by getting arrested for a stupid law. Plus the sit-ins at segregated establishments helped those stupid laws get repelled. If you're apart of the minority, democracy isn't going to work in your favour.


I am part of a growing minority (Latino).

There are certain laws I would not disobey, but there are some I may challenge and try to educate people as to why such a law is wrong.

Like I said, it doesn't have to be you rising up in arms. Then again I am a pacifist by nature.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Cosara
Senator
 
Posts: 4339
Founded: Nov 06, 2012
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Postby Cosara » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Agriculture is different that human lives. For one, humans are blessed with self-awareness and cognitive abilities.

Just as well, I fervently believe that children need to grow up with their biological mother and father.


I believe if the biological father and mother are stupid fucks who abuse or neglect their children, their children ought to be raised by loving surrogates.

Parenting is more than just being flesh-and-blood related.

A child needs a father figure and a mother figure. No am mount of love can turn a father into a mother or vice versa.
"Do not lose hope; St. Joseph also had moments of doubt. but he never lost faith and was able to overcome them in the certainty that God never abandons us." -Pope Francis

"We are never defeated unless we give up on god." -Ronald Reagan

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Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Valcouria » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Valcouria wrote:...I would think that you wouldn't need to point out the fact that 'belief' does not necessarily need to be scientifically backed up. We Christians believe in things too...which, suffice to say, is sorely lacking in the modern world.


The reason it's lacking is because blind belief is stupid.

It needs to go away. Far away. Far, far away.

Sometimes, people need to be able to believe in something without reason and logic behind it. It is an inherent part of humanity. Over the course of the last half-century, atheists and irreligious people have been convincing people that reason can solve everything, and that belief in religion is something that is archaic and outdated. I say nay. Although I know you will tell me I am foolish, there have been rough days where I have needed something outside this mortal plane, and look to God for guidance and comfort. Can I prove He exists? No. But then, you cannot prove He doesn't exist. And, believe it or not, I always feel much better after spending some time in belief and prayer.

Blind belief isn't stupid...it is something that not only has the power to help people, it is something that is inherent in humanity, and no amount of emphasis on logic and reason will make it go away.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32063
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:55 pm

Agymnum wrote:That's well and good. I support the legalization of marijuana for tax purposes. I do not, however, smoke marijuana because I do not have the time nor the money to support such a habit.

If marijuana were legal, I would not suddenly start smoking it because I still wouldn't have the time nor the money.

The law itself is irrelevant to whether I do something or not. If the only reason you don't murder people, rob from people, or rape people is because of the law, you're stupid.


The only reason I renew my license is because of the law.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Valcouria
Minister
 
Posts: 3012
Founded: Jul 06, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Valcouria » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:55 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Valcouria wrote:Some people believe in the existence of the 'dude in the sky', and prefer to follow His laws as He told us to.


So you not only speak Hebrew, Ancient Greek, and Aramaic but have access to the original books? Because if you don't you're following His laws as a series of translators told you.

I trust the translations...the men that did their job did as best as they could, and for the most part did a wonderful job. I would really like to learn Greek and Hebrew so I could read the originals, but at the moment I am too busy to do so.
Pro: Social Conservatism, Traditionalist Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, National Conservatism, Theo-democracy, Pro-Life, Capital Punishment
Anti: Social Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, LGBT/Gay Marriage, Pro-Choice, Secularism, Atheism

"In matters of style, swim with the current: in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed."-Edmund Burke

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Agymnum
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7393
Founded: Jul 31, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Agymnum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:56 pm

Valcouria wrote:Blind belief isn't stupid...it is something that not only has the power to help people, it is something that is inherent in humanity, and no amount of emphasis on logic and reason will make it go away.


We can't make it go away, but we can sure as hell try.

And if the only reason you have belief is to get you through tough days, you're weak. I don't need belief in an imaginary friend as a crutch to get me through tough days. At least come up with a better argument than that for belief in a deity.
Glorious puppet of Highfort

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