Rich Getting Richer in the U.S

[Parhe]

They would probably move out the nation. Isn't taxing one of the best ways of making people leave or something? On the bright side statistically income equality would even out a bit.

Actually, no. One of the reasons people live in their current location is due more about standard of living, particularly the wealthy. Lower taxes are considered, but if its in a shit-hole that nobody will live in, then by-golly nobody will live there. Hence why there are several corporations headquartered in areas which actually have higher corporate taxes than other areas: Getting executives to live in an area is much easier if it isn't awful to live in.

Also to Seangoli it isn't just the upper percentile bitching and moaning. I know groups from all classifications doing so and the wealthier members of society don't do it any more than others.

Granted, however the upper percentile has the least to bitch and moan about, and I find it particularly baffling that there are people defending who have not, will not, and can not ever reach that point. Further, any time the rich actually moan about it, or try to make it seem that something of some sort is an undue hardship on them I can't help but roll my eyes.

Besides America there are many nations with high or good standards of living that do not tax the hell out of people. Especially for the top seven percentile in which average life standards do not matter as much. So if America starts taxing the hell out of the rich there are plenty of other nations with good standards of living they can go to and not tax the hell of them.

[Freiheit Reich]

Solution:

Tax the shit out of the upper percentiles, force better wages, kill union busting bills and the like with fire. It's getting to be about damn time we stop catering to the upper percentile of Americans, who consistently bitch and moan about how hard it is for them.

Great idea, I know plenty of nations around the world would be happy to accept the wealthy American immigrants and their businesses. We can help make the rest of the world wealthier while the USA grows poorer.

[Khadgar]

Besides America there are many nations with high or good standards of living that do not tax the hell out of people. Especially for the top seven percentile in which average life standards do not matter as much. So if America starts taxing the hell out of the rich there are plenty of other nations with good standards of living they can go to and not tax the hell of them.

Top 10 http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... e-map.html

Top end tax rates: http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-datab ... rates.html

Compare in order of quality of life:

1) Norway 47.8%
2) Australia 45%
3) Netherlands 52%
4) US 35%
5) New Zealand 33%
6) Canada 48%
7) Ireland 48%
8) Liechtenstein 29%
9) Germany 45%
10) Sweden 56.6

Take yer pick. You're either in New Zealand which is in the middle of nowhere, or Liechtenstein.

[Freiheit Reich]

Besides America there are many nations with high or good standards of living that do not tax the hell out of people. Especially for the top seven percentile in which average life standards do not matter as much. So if America starts taxing the hell out of the rich there are plenty of other nations with good standards of living they can go to and not tax the hell of them.

Top 10 http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... e-map.html

Top end tax rates: http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-datab ... rates.html

Compare in order of quality of life:

1) Norway 47.8%
2) Australia 45%
3) Netherlands 52%
4) US 35%
5) New Zealand 33%
6) Canada 48%
7) Ireland 48%
Liechtenstein 29%
9) Germany 45%
10) Sweden 56.6

Take yer pick. You're either in New Zealand which is in the middle of nowhere, or Liechtenstein.

http://www.rikvin.com/taxation/personal-tax/

How about 20% in Singapore. A nation offering a high quality of life. Here are some positive aspects:

Prettier women than any other country you listed (for those wealthy men that are single, for women they may prefer the men as well since obesity rates are lower than the USA)

Better food

Warm climate (many people like this)

Very low crime rates

Famous for cleanliness

Easy access to some excellent Malaysia beaches

Cheap flights to places all over Asia (from top rated airport)

Excellent and cheap public transportation

Nice museums, excellent zoo, beautiful gardens (which are free to visit unlike many in the USA)

[The Black Forrest]

Really?

So? You are ok with the upper section being rewarded for success, failure or simply warming a seat?

You think it's ok to be take quarterly increases in income as the company in free fall?

Inequality is a fact of life but significantly increasing it every year is artificial and not good for the whole.

There are, I'll admit, certainly individual cases of malfeasance on the part of many among the wealthier classes. As you point out. But, by and large, as the wealthier get wealthier, they pull the rest of us less wealthy folks up with them.

Of course. There are cases of upper class who genuinely care. Especially; if they came from the lower ranks. My current CEO is such a case. How many companies give paid time off for volunteer work?

The wealthy getting wealthier is not a guarantee we improve. The last 13 years for example.

[The Black Forrest]

Solution:

Tax the shit out of the upper percentiles, force better wages, kill union busting bills and the like with fire. It's getting to be about damn time we stop catering to the upper percentile of Americans, who consistently bitch and moan about how hard it is for them.

Great idea, I know plenty of nations around the world would be happy to accept the wealthy American immigrants and their businesses. We can help make the rest of the world wealthier while the USA grows poorer.

Of course they will all fly. Where exactly?

So your suggestion is to leave things alone where the middle class and poor are getting poor while the poor oppressed upper class is getting more?

[Greed and Death]

Didn't the super PACs lose ? I thought Obama's 2012 victory would prove super Pacs do not have that effect on elections.

The PACs and super-PACs were dealt a blow by the increase in votes for third parties and Obama's win, but I believe super-PACs have been most effective in Congressional elections. Then again my memory may be wrong, but logic would say it is easier for them to influence a smaller area than the entire nation.

I think Gerrymandering has been most effective in Congressional elections.

[Greed and Death]

Great idea, I know plenty of nations around the world would be happy to accept the wealthy American immigrants and their businesses. We can help make the rest of the world wealthier while the USA grows poorer.

Of course they will all fly. Where exactly?

So your suggestion is to leave things alone where the middle class and poor are getting poor while the poor oppressed upper class is getting more?

Depends on how we are taxing them.
Facebook Co-founder and other investment heavy wealthy would move to Singapore. Sodomy is outlawed there still and there is no capital gaines tax.

[Khadgar]

The PACs and super-PACs were dealt a blow by the increase in votes for third parties and Obama's win, but I believe super-PACs have been most effective in Congressional elections. Then again my memory may be wrong, but logic would say it is easier for them to influence a smaller area than the entire nation.

I think Gerrymandering has been most effective in Congressional elections.

Super effective you might even say.

[Greed and Death]

Top 10 http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... e-map.html

Top end tax rates: http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-datab ... rates.html

Compare in order of quality of life:

1) Norway 47.8%
2) Australia 45%
3) Netherlands 52%
4) US 35%
5) New Zealand 33%
6) Canada 48%
7) Ireland 48%
Liechtenstein 29%
9) Germany 45%
10) Sweden 56.6

Take yer pick. You're either in New Zealand which is in the middle of nowhere, or Liechtenstein.

http://www.rikvin.com/taxation/personal-tax/

How about 20% in Singapore. A nation offering a high quality of life. Here are some positive aspects:

Prettier women than any other country you listed (for those wealthy men that are single, for women they may prefer the men as well since obesity rates are lower than the USA)

Better food

Warm climate (many people like this)

Very low crime rates

Famous for cleanliness

Easy access to some excellent Malaysia beaches

Cheap flights to places all over Asia (from top rated airport)

Excellent and cheap public transportation

Nice museums, excellent zoo, beautiful gardens (which are free to visit unlike many in the USA)

It is not like the facebook co founder moved there or anything.

[Mike the Progressive]

Top 10 http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... e-map.html

Top end tax rates: http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-datab ... rates.html

Compare in order of quality of life:

1) Norway 47.8%
2) Australia 45%
3) Netherlands 52%
4) US 35%
5) New Zealand 33%
6) Canada 48%
7) Ireland 48%
Liechtenstein 29%
9) Germany 45%
10) Sweden 56.6

Take yer pick. You're either in New Zealand which is in the middle of nowhere, or Liechtenstein.

http://www.rikvin.com/taxation/personal-tax/

How about 20% in Singapore. A nation offering a high quality of life. Here are some positive aspects:

Prettier women than any other country you listed (for those wealthy men that are single, for women they may prefer the men as well since obesity rates are lower than the USA)

Better food

Warm climate (many people like this)

Very low crime rates

Famous for cleanliness

Easy access to some excellent Malaysia beaches

Cheap flights to places all over Asia (from top rated airport)

Excellent and cheap public transportation

Nice museums, excellent zoo, beautiful gardens (which are free to visit unlike many in the USA)

It's not just that, but what's is overlooked is the economies and cultures differ. The Nordic countries, while having a high quality of life, are largely dependent on [free] trade and having a nearly homogenous society. If either were to change, I doubt their generosity would be so great.

US differs because in addition to having a multi-racial society with huge, huge, number of immigrants and migrants, we also act as the Western world's defense shield.

[Mike the Progressive]

http://www.rikvin.com/taxation/personal-tax/

How about 20% in Singapore. A nation offering a high quality of life. Here are some positive aspects:

Prettier women than any other country you listed (for those wealthy men that are single, for women they may prefer the men as well since obesity rates are lower than the USA)

Better food

Warm climate (many people like this)

Very low crime rates

Famous for cleanliness

Easy access to some excellent Malaysia beaches

Cheap flights to places all over Asia (from top rated airport)

Excellent and cheap public transportation

Nice museums, excellent zoo, beautiful gardens (which are free to visit unlike many in the USA)

It is not like the facebook co founder moved there or anything.

That's because Obama isn't like that asshole Hollande who wanted a 75% tax rate.

[Greed and Death]

During the recession and recovery the upper class managed to get even wealthier here in the states. Read here http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/art ... g-recovery

I know this is old news, even though its a new article. But it makes you think about how bad wealth gaps are in America, and what we need to do to overcome them.

What do you think of the article, and the rising inequality in the U.S?

There's a class war in the US, and it's been being waged for generations - the rich waging war on the poor.

There was a brief lull after the November revolution made it apparent that sometimes the poor fight back, and some concessions were made to make life slightly less shit for the poor - but those gains have been mainly clawed back.

They say the biggest lie ever told was the Devil convincing the world he didn't exist, but they are wrong - the biggest lie ever told is the story that there's no class war in America. There is.

There is no class war, claiming there is, is tantamount to inciting a riot, which is a felony. You will be arrested, convicted, and denied the right to vote if you persist in this riotous course of action.

You will also lose employabilty and become the stand in suspect when the police can't think of who actually committed the crime.

[The Black Forrest]

Top 10 http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... e-map.html

Top end tax rates: http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-datab ... rates.html

Compare in order of quality of life:

1) Norway 47.8%
2) Australia 45%
3) Netherlands 52%
4) US 35%
5) New Zealand 33%
6) Canada 48%
7) Ireland 48%
Liechtenstein 29%
9) Germany 45%
10) Sweden 56.6

Take yer pick. You're either in New Zealand which is in the middle of nowhere, or Liechtenstein.

http://www.rikvin.com/taxation/personal-tax/

How about 20% in Singapore. A nation offering a high quality of life. Here are some positive aspects:

Prettier women than any other country you listed (for those wealthy men that are single, for women they may prefer the men as well since obesity rates are lower than the USA)

Better food

Warm climate (many people like this)

Very low crime rates

Famous for cleanliness

Easy access to some excellent Malaysia beaches

Cheap flights to places all over Asia (from top rated airport)

Excellent and cheap public transportation

Nice museums, excellent zoo, beautiful gardens (which are free to visit unlike many in the USA)

Actually I have been there.

1) The women are pretty. But the spread of pretty to plain to consistent with every nation on the planet.
2) Food is ok. Good in some places; bad in others.
3) Can be humid at times. But if you like it....
4) Crime is low due to the rather violent punishment. "Drug trafficking means death" I once watched the police beat the living shit out of a purse snatcher. But yes; crime wise you could walk around at night and not feel you had to look over your shoulder.
5) Clean but you are punished for litter. Not like the purse snatcher but you are punished.
6) Sure.
7) The airport is great. Love using the showers after the long haul to get there.
8 ) Transport is good but impossible to find when the rates increase at certain times of night.
9) Museums are good; the zoo is ok and the gardens are good. You can find free places in the US.

Finally, one small detail you leave out.

The population of Singapore versus the US. Their ways would fail miserably in the US.

Do you remember the average price of a car?

[Freiheit Reich]

http://www.rikvin.com/taxation/personal-tax/

How about 20% in Singapore. A nation offering a high quality of life. Here are some positive aspects:

Prettier women than any other country you listed (for those wealthy men that are single, for women they may prefer the men as well since obesity rates are lower than the USA)

Better food

Warm climate (many people like this)

Very low crime rates

Famous for cleanliness

Easy access to some excellent Malaysia beaches

Cheap flights to places all over Asia (from top rated airport)

Excellent and cheap public transportation

Nice museums, excellent zoo, beautiful gardens (which are free to visit unlike many in the USA)

It is not like the facebook co founder moved there or anything.

Which proves my point that business friendly places will attract wealth. The USA will keep most wealthy people at 35% but what about if they tax at 60%? What about 80%?

If Mexico got their act together and offered Singapore's low taxes, anti-corruption, and low crime than they could steal so many jobs away it would make American people's heads spin. Mexico is a much closer move than Singapore and Americans are more familiar with it. Plus, businesses would benefit from better access to the Latin America market (which will take off fast if they choose capitalism over socialism-some places seem undecided about this).

[The Black Forrest]

Of course they will all fly. Where exactly?

So your suggestion is to leave things alone where the middle class and poor are getting poor while the poor oppressed upper class is getting more?

Depends on how we are taxing them.
Facebook Co-founder and other investment heavy wealthy would move to Singapore. Sodomy is outlawed there still and there is no capital gaines tax.

They get you in other ways though. For example, they actively discourage car ownership. Makes sense since they are small. Your average 60K car will run you 240K. That was a small detail the press left out when that little shit was caned for tagging a car.

Wealth flight is nothing more then a scare tactic by the Repubs......

[Khadgar]

Depends on how we are taxing them.
Facebook Co-founder and other investment heavy wealthy would move to Singapore. Sodomy is outlawed there still and there is no capital gaines tax.

They get you in other ways though. For example, they actively discourage car ownership. Makes sense since they are small. Your average 60K car will run you 240K. That was a small detail the press left out when that little shit was caned for tagging a car.

Wealth flight is nothing more then a scare tactic by the Repubs......

Singapore is 6th highest cost of living.

https://www.eiu.com/public/topical_repo ... d=wcol2013

[Freiheit Reich]

Depends on how we are taxing them.
Facebook Co-founder and other investment heavy wealthy would move to Singapore. Sodomy is outlawed there still and there is no capital gaines tax.

They get you in other ways though. For example, they actively discourage car ownership. Makes sense since they are small. Your average 60K car will run you 240K. That was a small detail the press left out when that little shit was caned for tagging a car.

Wealth flight is nothing more then a scare tactic by the Repubs......

True about the car but environmentalists should love this idea. Can't work in the USA for obvious reasons. Why somebody would drive there is strange to me, I hate big city driving. The metro is great and I am guessing they have a good bus system once you learn the routes (I only took it twice though so I can't judge it).

Singapore is not perfect but it has more good things than bad things going for it.

Sodomy has nothing to do with FB co-founder unless he is gay.

By the way, good food is VERY EASY to find in Singapore. More so than any other place I have been (to include Hong Kong). Their grocery store prices are good as well so you can cook up your own meals with no problems.

[Seangoli]

Top 10 http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... e-map.html

Top end tax rates: http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-datab ... rates.html

Compare in order of quality of life:

1) Norway 47.8%
2) Australia 45%
3) Netherlands 52%
4) US 35%
5) New Zealand 33%
6) Canada 48%
7) Ireland 48%
Liechtenstein 29%
9) Germany 45%
10) Sweden 56.6

Take yer pick. You're either in New Zealand which is in the middle of nowhere, or Liechtenstein.

http://www.rikvin.com/taxation/personal-tax/

How about 20% in Singapore. A nation offering a high quality of life. Here are some positive aspects:

Prettier women than any other country you listed (for those wealthy men that are single, for women they may prefer the men as well since obesity rates are lower than the USA)

Better food

Warm climate (many people like this)

Very low crime rates

Famous for cleanliness

Easy access to some excellent Malaysia beaches

Cheap flights to places all over Asia (from top rated airport)

Excellent and cheap public transportation

Nice museums, excellent zoo, beautiful gardens (which are free to visit unlike many in the USA)

Now, given that Singapore already has a much lower tax rate, under your premise why the hell aren't rich people going there in droves?

Because there are a myriad of reasons why they wouldn't, with tax rates actually being one of the least paid attention to reasons. Near every country, regardless of tax-rate, has uber wealthy people who don't want to leave said country regardless of the tax rate. The entire concept that the rich will up and leave is beyond stupid at this point. Corporation don't do it, people don't do it, nobody fucking does it because its a terrible idea. People tend to like living where they enjoy living, and given that the rich aren't flocking to Singapore yet, I highly doubt they will if the marginal tax rate raises by any amount. It just doesn't happen.

Also, most of your list either the rich wouldn't give two shits about or is completely subjective. So there is that.

[Seangoli]

Which proves my point that business friendly places will attract wealth. The USA will keep most wealthy people at 35% but what about if they tax at 60%? What about 80%?

If Mexico got their act together and offered Singapore's low taxes, anti-corruption, and low crime than they could steal so many jobs away it would make American people's heads spin. Mexico is a much closer move than Singapore and Americans are more familiar with it. Plus, businesses would benefit from better access to the Latin America market (which will take off fast if they choose capitalism over socialism-some places seem undecided about this).

Mark Zuckerberg is a narcissistic ass from what I know. In other words, not the norm even for wealthy people. He is also not the norm, and there are people far wealthier than him who choose to stay in the US. Most businesses and business men in the US like being situated in the US for cultural reasons, lifestyle reasons, and ease of business reasons (Of which taxes are not important; it's rather the infrastructure of the US that is important in that regard, of which we have an extensive and high-quality infrastructure that is cheap to use).

They will not go to Mexico or Central America, as those places are shit-holes. Massive shit-holes, by and large, particularly if you are wealthy. Great vacation spot for the wealthy, awful place to live. Poor infrastructure, poor public services, lack of government oversight, etc.

I mean honestly, this is just obvious stuff here. Nobody in their right mind would go from a country with one of the best and cheapest infrastructures in the world, providing the widest degree of luxuries one could imagine, that is run decently and move to an area which is just plain awful in all those regards.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Which proves my point that business friendly places will attract wealth. The USA will keep most wealthy people at 35% but what about if they tax at 60%? What about 80%?

If Mexico got their act together and offered Singapore's low taxes, anti-corruption, and low crime than they could steal so many jobs away it would make American people's heads spin. Mexico is a much closer move than Singapore and Americans are more familiar with it. Plus, businesses would benefit from better access to the Latin America market (which will take off fast if they choose capitalism over socialism-some places seem undecided about this).

Mark Zuckerberg

Just FYI, not who he's talking about.

[Seangoli]

Mark Zuckerberg

Just FYI, not who he's talking about.

I could have sworn it was. Upon looking it up, it was co-founder Saverin. After looking him up, he appears to be even more of a narcissistic ass than Zuckerberg, and even less what would expect to be the norm for any sensible person.

[Freiheit Reich]

Which proves my point that business friendly places will attract wealth. The USA will keep most wealthy people at 35% but what about if they tax at 60%? What about 80%?

If Mexico got their act together and offered Singapore's low taxes, anti-corruption, and low crime than they could steal so many jobs away it would make American people's heads spin. Mexico is a much closer move than Singapore and Americans are more familiar with it. Plus, businesses would benefit from better access to the Latin America market (which will take off fast if they choose capitalism over socialism-some places seem undecided about this).

Mark Zuckerberg is a narcissistic ass from what I know. In other words, not the norm even for wealthy people. He is also not the norm, and there are people far wealthier than him who choose to stay in the US. Most businesses and business men in the US like being situated in the US for cultural reasons, lifestyle reasons, and ease of business reasons (Of which taxes are not important; it's rather the infrastructure of the US that is important in that regard, of which we have an extensive and high-quality infrastructure that is cheap to use).

They will not go to Mexico or Central America, as those places are shit-holes. Massive shit-holes, by and large, particularly if you are wealthy. Great vacation spot for the wealthy, awful place to live. Poor infrastructure, poor public services, lack of government oversight, etc.

I mean honestly, this is just obvious stuff here. Nobody in their right mind would go from a country with one of the best and cheapest infrastructures in the world, providing the widest degree of luxuries one could imagine, that is run decently and move to an area which is just plain awful in all those regards.

I said IF Mexico could become like Singapore in business and crime.

Why use Singapore as my shining example?

Ease of doing business: #1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_do ... ness_index


Corruption Perceptions Index 2012 (shows how anti-corrupt a nation is)

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

Singapore #5, USA #19


Best nation for business (World Bank)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11671839

Singapore remains the best country in which to run a business, according to an annual report by the World Bank.

The Asian nation has come top of the World Bank's Doing Business 2011 study, which rates 183 countries on the ease in which they allow firms to operate.

Oh, this makes 7 years in a row!!

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-ne ... n-20121023

[Seangoli]

Mark Zuckerberg is a narcissistic ass from what I know. In other words, not the norm even for wealthy people. He is also not the norm, and there are people far wealthier than him who choose to stay in the US. Most businesses and business men in the US like being situated in the US for cultural reasons, lifestyle reasons, and ease of business reasons (Of which taxes are not important; it's rather the infrastructure of the US that is important in that regard, of which we have an extensive and high-quality infrastructure that is cheap to use).

They will not go to Mexico or Central America, as those places are shit-holes. Massive shit-holes, by and large, particularly if you are wealthy. Great vacation spot for the wealthy, awful place to live. Poor infrastructure, poor public services, lack of government oversight, etc.

I mean honestly, this is just obvious stuff here. Nobody in their right mind would go from a country with one of the best and cheapest infrastructures in the world, providing the widest degree of luxuries one could imagine, that is run decently and move to an area which is just plain awful in all those regards.

I said IF Mexico could become like Singapore in business and crime.

Why use Singapore as my shining example?

Ease of doing business: #1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_do ... ness_index


Corruption Perceptions Index 2012 (shows how anti-corrupt a nation is)

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

Singapore #5, USA #19


Best nation for business (World Bank)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11671839

Singapore remains the best country in which to run a business, according to an annual report by the World Bank.

The Asian nation has come top of the World Bank's Doing Business 2011 study, which rates 183 countries on the ease in which they allow firms to operate.

Oh, this makes 7 years in a row!!

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-ne ... n-20121023

And yet rich people aren't going there in droves yet. You still need to explain this before I even begin to give you a single iota of plausibility to this statement.

There are good reasons why most people don't go there to live. Reasons that no amount of money, or taxes, will change.

[Freiheit Reich]

Just FYI, not who he's talking about.

I could have sworn it was. Upon looking it up, it was co-founder Saverin. After looking him up, he appears to be even more of a narcissistic ass than Zuckerberg, and even less what would expect to be the norm for any sensible person.

Saverin is smart and I applaud him for his choice. I wish more wealthy people would leave the USA to send politicians a wake up message.

Some treated Saverin like a traitor which he was not. He was a man that felt he deserved to enjoy the fruits of his labors. Ayn Rand would be proud.