Child Discipline

[Totalise]

sometimes a kid who's misbehaving needs a good smack on the butt. i was spanked as a child and all but twice did i desirve it

Did your parents smack you because of your poor spelling? It doesn't seem to have worked.

well fuck you spelling nazi

[Mavorpen]

It doesn't work. It does imprint a message, but that message is "it's OK to hit people if you're bigger and older than them".

Wrong.

The child is an inferior to the parents, it is their place to obey the more knowledgeable and more intelligent parents.

So basically teachers should be slapping around their disabled students.

[Frisivisia]

Wrong.

The child is an inferior to the parents, it is their place to obey the more knowledgeable and more intelligent parents.

So basically teachers should be slapping around their disabled students.

DO MATH! *SLAP* DO MATH! *SLAP*

[Mavorpen]

So basically teachers should be slapping around their disabled students.

DO MATH! *SLAP* DO MATH! *SLAP*

It's the alternative to...

[Imsogone]

It doesn't work. It does imprint a message, but that message is "it's OK to hit people if you're bigger and older than them".

Wrong.

The child is an inferior to the parents, it is their place to obey the more knowledgeable and more intelligent parents.

So, when my mother asked me to spy on my father so she could get information about his girlfriends, I had to do it?
So, when my father decided that I should be one of his girlfriends, I had to obey?

Really?

[Zweite Alaje]

Wrong.

The child is an inferior to the parents, it is their place to obey the more knowledgeable and more intelligent parents.

Does that mean that those with college educations can order those without around because they're more knowledgeable and intelligent?

Wut? No.

child =/= adult

Wrong.

The child is an inferior to the parents, it is their place to obey the more knowledgeable and more intelligent parents.

Nope. I work with a lot of children, and I can tell you right now that some of them are a lot better than me at some things, and there are plenty of things I'll prefer their decision making to my own on, under most circumstances. The other message it manages to enforce is "you only need to do what they tell you if they are big enough to beat you up".

I've yet to meet a child that is better then me at anything besides probably crying.

I never felt like that and my parents spanked me when I was growing up, I defended myself just fine. It is the thing that the child must learn to obey their parent figure.

No, the child had failed to obey. The parents job is to teach, the child's is to learn. If the child refuses to adhere to the directive of the parents, they must be punished.

mmmm.... Not necessarily. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, I never punish my son. I offer him consequences. If he doesn't do something I ask of him, then I won't do something he asks of me.

For instance: He has a very difficult time remembering to open the door to the car while being mindful of other cars nearby (he can't bare to not have a toy with him or actually wear his bookbag). Therefore, the car remains locked until I open the door for him. He isn't allowed to touch the door without me there. I don't carry anything for him. He doesn't get to carry anything into the car either - it all goes in the trunk.

He does NOT like this at all. He wants his toys. He doesn't like to wear his bookbag but finds it awkward to hold it in his hands when it's full.

He is made uncomfortable and unhappy because he cannot obey. The result? He now points out parking spots with a space clear next to them, so that he can open the door without worry. When a car is parked on his side, he stops to estimate how much space is between the cars.

He is 5.

That is a wonderfully obedient son you have, but I'm saying what if that sort of thing doesn't work? What is talking and passive discipline fails?

The only method left is force.

[Imsogone]

Does that mean that those with college educations can order those without around because they're more knowledgeable and intelligent?

Wut? No.

child =/= adult

Nope. I work with a lot of children, and I can tell you right now that some of them are a lot better than me at some things, and there are plenty of things I'll prefer their decision making to my own on, under most circumstances. The other message it manages to enforce is "you only need to do what they tell you if they are big enough to beat you up".

I've yet to meet a child that is better then me at anything besides probably crying.

I never felt like that and my parents spanked me when I was growing up, I defended myself just fine. It is the thing that the child must learn to obey their parent figure.

mmmm.... Not necessarily. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, I never punish my son. I offer him consequences. If he doesn't do something I ask of him, then I won't do something he asks of me.

For instance: He has a very difficult time remembering to open the door to the car while being mindful of other cars nearby (he can't bare to not have a toy with him or actually wear his bookbag). Therefore, the car remains locked until I open the door for him. He isn't allowed to touch the door without me there. I don't carry anything for him. He doesn't get to carry anything into the car either - it all goes in the trunk.

He does NOT like this at all. He wants his toys. He doesn't like to wear his bookbag but finds it awkward to hold it in his hands when it's full.

He is made uncomfortable and unhappy because he cannot obey. The result? He now points out parking spots with a space clear next to them, so that he can open the door without worry. When a car is parked on his side, he stops to estimate how much space is between the cars.

He is 5.

That is a wonderfully obedient son you have, but I'm saying what if that sort of thing doesn't work? What is talking and passive discipline fails?

The only method left is force.

And I'm saying if the only method left is force, then your intelligence and education mean nothing and you've failed.

[Mavorpen]

That is a wonderfully obedient son you have, but I'm saying what if that sort of thing doesn't work? What is talking and passive discipline fails?

The only method left is force.

No shit. If your kid is about to lunge into a lion's den, it's fine to physically pull them away using force. Slapping your kid because you're too lazy to search for methods that work is lazy, pathetic, and idiotic.

[Salandriagado]

Does that mean that those with college educations can order those without around because they're more knowledgeable and intelligent?

Wut? No.

child =/= adult

Nope. I work with a lot of children, and I can tell you right now that some of them are a lot better than me at some things, and there are plenty of things I'll prefer their decision making to my own on, under most circumstances. The other message it manages to enforce is "you only need to do what they tell you if they are big enough to beat you up".

I've yet to meet a child that is better then me at anything besides probably crying.

I never felt like that and my parents spanked me when I was growing up, I defended myself just fine. It is the thing that the child must learn to obey their parent figure.

Then you evidently haven't met many.

mmmm.... Not necessarily. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, I never punish my son. I offer him consequences. If he doesn't do something I ask of him, then I won't do something he asks of me.

For instance: He has a very difficult time remembering to open the door to the car while being mindful of other cars nearby (he can't bare to not have a toy with him or actually wear his bookbag). Therefore, the car remains locked until I open the door for him. He isn't allowed to touch the door without me there. I don't carry anything for him. He doesn't get to carry anything into the car either - it all goes in the trunk.

He does NOT like this at all. He wants his toys. He doesn't like to wear his bookbag but finds it awkward to hold it in his hands when it's full.

He is made uncomfortable and unhappy because he cannot obey. The result? He now points out parking spots with a space clear next to them, so that he can open the door without worry. When a car is parked on his side, he stops to estimate how much space is between the cars.

He is 5.

That is a wonderfully obedient son you have, but I'm saying what if that sort of thing doesn't work? What is talking and passive discipline fails?

The only method left is force.

Nope. There are plenty of other options. And if you exhaust them, you did it wrong and you're a fucking awful parent.

[Klesh]

Klesh speaks!

It is a method. Not the only or best but it has been successful.

Klesh has spoken!

[Zweite Alaje]

Wrong.

The child is an inferior to the parents, it is their place to obey the more knowledgeable and more intelligent parents.

So basically teachers should be slapping around their disabled students.

Nice jumping to conclusions there, dear.

Wrong.

The child is an inferior to the parents, it is their place to obey the more knowledgeable and more intelligent parents.

So, when my mother asked me to spy on my father so she could get information about his girlfriends, I had to do it?
So, when my father decided that I should be one of his girlfriends, I had to obey?

Really?

That if for the law to sort out, not a child.

That is a wonderfully obedient son you have, but I'm saying what if that sort of thing doesn't work? What is talking and passive discipline fails?

The only method left is force.

No shit. If your kid is about to lunge into a lion's den, it's fine to physically pull them away using force. Slapping your kid because you're too lazy to search for methods that work is lazy, pathetic, and idiotic.

Not really, not every kid is a charming innocent angel, Mav. There are children that don't respond to passive discipline, that percieve it as weakness.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

How many of you here believe that the best way to discipline kids is thru beating? and Why / Why Not?

Just a healthy opinion. No need to be harsh.

Discipline is the best. Being harsh with them when they mess up but not abuse them or hit them.

My dad was harsh on me when I used to do something wrong, but he hardly has beaten men in my life.

And yes, I was a little prick

[Distruzio]

That is a wonderfully obedient son you have, but I'm saying what if that sort of thing doesn't work? What is talking and passive discipline fails?

The only method left is force.

It doesn't fail. If he disobeys, he endures the consequences. Simple.

For instance: He struggles not to throw a fit about bedtime. I encouraged him to get used to sleeping with the door open, a nightlight, and music playing. I tell him, "if you give me issues tonight about going to sleep, I'm taking the music away." If he still gives me problems I take the music away, and the nightlight, and I shut the door. He cries himself to sleep on those nights. He'll learn.

If he disobeys, he suffers consequences.

[Mavorpen]

Not really, not every kid is a charming innocent angel, Mav. There are children that don't respond to passive discipline, that percieve it as weakness.

Source.

[Zweite Alaje]

Not really, not every kid is a charming innocent angel, Mav. There are children that don't respond to passive discipline, that percieve it as weakness.

Source.

You've got to be fucking kidding.

[Totalise]

No, the child had failed to obey. The parents job is to teach, the child's is to learn. If the child refuses to adhere to the directive of the parents, they must be punished.

I repeat, if you've gotten to the point where you need to hit the kid to get your point across, you've failed as a parent. You're older, more experience and, presumably, wiser than the child. You have the responsibility to teach the child effectiviely. If you have to hit the child to teach him/her, you are ineffective and, arguably, unwise.

There is an old anecdote from china that for some reason your post brings to mind. "If the instructions and words of order are not clear and distinct then it is the fault of the superior that they are disobeyed." "If the instructions and words of order are clear and distinct yet are disobeyed then fault lies with the subordinate"
meaning that one mistake "ok maybe i wasn't clear" a second mistake "ok maybe you misunderstood me" a thrid time they clearly don't get it and reprimand if not physical punishment is needed to enforce the instructions.

[Mavorpen]

Source.

You've got to be fucking kidding.

Why would I do that?

Seriously, I have utterly no reason to believe that if you've done even a remotely competent job at raising your child, they will become an idiotic douchebag that literally screams, "PASSIVE DISCIPLINE IS FOR PUSSIES!"

So again, source that shit.

[Salandriagado]

Source.

You've got to be fucking kidding.

I've yet to meet a single one. And that includes spending a year or two in one of the shittier inner city council estates.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Not really, not every kid is a charming innocent angel, Mav. There are children that don't respond to passive discipline, that percieve it as weakness.

I wasn't an angel, far from it.

My dad hardly did beat me (3 times in my life), but rather was very strict with me.

I am not a bad man

Thus, your conclusion is invalid.

[Imsogone]

So basically teachers should be slapping around their disabled students.

Nice jumping to conclusions there, dear.

So, when my mother asked me to spy on my father so she could get information about his girlfriends, I had to do it?
So, when my father decided that I should be one of his girlfriends, I had to obey?

Really?

[i]That if for the law to sort out, not a child[/i].

No shit. If your kid is about to lunge into a lion's den, it's fine to physically pull them away using force. Slapping your kid because you're too lazy to search for methods that work is lazy, pathetic, and idiotic.

Not really, not every kid is a charming innocent angel, Mav. There are children that don't respond to passive discipline, that percieve it as weakness.

Say what? If I knew something was wrong, absolutely, unequivocally wrong, I was still supposed to comply because I was a child?!!! Let my parents use me and abuse me because they were the adults and were "smarter and superior" and then let the law deal with - IF THEY FOUND OUT. No way. No FUCKING way.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Say what? If I knew something was wrong, absolutely, unequivocally wrong, I was still supposed to comply because I was a child?!!! Let my parents use me and abuse me because they were the adults and were "smarter and superior" and then let the law deal with - IF THEY FOUND OUT. No way. No FUCKING way.

No, this is unacceptable

Now, I will say I was raised by an awesome father and a great mother and so I have no complaints about my parents and therefore I tend to think in terms of that when I think about parenthood. But I know about many shitty parents and I feel bad for their kids because many times they have to obey these shitty people.

Good job at not obeying your parents on that one Imso.

[Zweite Alaje]

You've got to be fucking kidding.

Why would I do that?

Seriously, I have utterly no reason to believe that if you've done even a remotely competent job at raising your child, they will become an idiotic douchebag that literally screams, "PASSIVE DISCIPLINE IS FOR PUSSIES!"

So again, source that shit.

I'm working on that source, just for you.

Nice jumping to conclusions there, dear.


[i]That if for the law to sort out, not a child[/i].


Not really, not every kid is a charming innocent angel, Mav. There are children that don't respond to passive discipline, that percieve it as weakness.

Say what? If I knew something was wrong, absolutely, unequivocally wrong, I was still supposed to comply because I was a child?!!! Let my parents use me and abuse me because they were the adults and were "smarter and superior" and then let the law deal with - IF THEY FOUND OUT. No way. No FUCKING way.

Children think a lot of things "aren't right or aren't fair", they are naive. We don't listen to children, it isn't their place to question their parent's actions, that's the Law/Government's job.

[Imsogone]

Why would I do that?

Seriously, I have utterly no reason to believe that if you've done even a remotely competent job at raising your child, they will become an idiotic douchebag that literally screams, "PASSIVE DISCIPLINE IS FOR PUSSIES!"

So again, source that shit.

I'm working on that source, just for you.

Say what? If I knew something was wrong, absolutely, unequivocally wrong, I was still supposed to comply because I was a child?!!! Let my parents use me and abuse me because they were the adults and were "smarter and superior" and then let the law deal with - IF THEY FOUND OUT. No way. No FUCKING way.

Children think a lot of things "aren't right or aren't fair", they are naive. We don't listen to children, it isn't their place to question their parent's actions, that's the Law/Government's job.

So a child forced to have sex with a parent or "funny" uncle should not be heard because it isn't their place to question that action? Whoa. All kids are automatically liars, is that it? I really hope that you don't have kids.

[Zweite Alaje]

I'm working on that source, just for you.


Children think a lot of things "aren't right or aren't fair", they are naive. We don't listen to children, it isn't their place to question their parent's actions, that's the Law/Government's job.

So a child forced to have sex with a parent or "funny" uncle should not be heard because it isn't their place to question that action? Whoa. All kids are automatically liars, is that it? I really hope that you don't have kids.

No, a child in that situation should be heard. I never said they shouldn't be, what I am saying is that it isn't their place to disobey their parents.

[Imsogone]

So a child forced to have sex with a parent or "funny" uncle should not be heard because it isn't their place to question that action? Whoa. All kids are automatically liars, is that it? I really hope that you don't have kids.

No, a child in that situation should be heard. I never said they shouldn't be, what I am saying is that it isn't their place to disobey their parents.

Even if the parent requires them to do something that will permanently harm them.

Dad: You're my daughter, but I want to have sex with you and, oh, by the way, bring some of your girlfriends over so I can have sex with them, too.
Daughter: But dad, I don't want to have sex with you. It's wrong, I don't like it. And my friends don't want to have sex with you, either.
Dad: *smacks daughter* how dare you disobey me, I'm your father, you're just a stupid kid.

No, Alaje, don't think so.