Child Discipline

[Ikigain]

I hate the word "discipline" being used that way. Discipline means to teach a child. When people usually say it they say it like it's all about punishment.

anyway, it's all about what kind of kid.

[The Weeks Clan]

I believe that a rod is needed to raise a child. But keep an apple next to it to reward good deeds.

[Thanatttynia]

If it's not acceptable for a teacher to hit a child, I don't see why a parent should be given the right.

[Esselman]

If it's not acceptable for a teacher to hit a child, I don't see why a parent should be given the right.

Because unlike a teacher, that's their child so they can parent how they see fit.

[The Truth and Light]

Punishing your child through any act of violence is abuse. End of story.

[United Republics of Aralon]

You think the child's mind makes the connection "I was hit because I did wrong".

Yes. All but the most mentally retarded of children can understand :

"You did this bad thing so this is your punishment" --> Smack --> "Don't do it again"

No. If they are grounded they understand why rules are, and why it is wrong to disobey. Bout 50% of the rules in our society are utter fallacy and they are only there because they are mindlessly enforced.The other half are necessary. If your kid plays with the power socket, spanking them is not agood way to deal with the situation. If the kid is a toddler just carry them away, this works with animals as well everytime they approach an off limits area, ground them and carry them away,it doesn1t matter that a two years old will not understand your arguments they can read from your tone(not yelling just a strict voice),if they get carried away they'll understand its A forbidden, B meaningless to try.(Yes this involves devoting hellova lot of attention to the children,but heck you are not obligated to have children,so be smart, and don't have children if you are not ready).If they are older just explain that sockets are not toys beacause you'll get shocked and it hurts like hell, and you'll end up in hospital which is a terrible place.

Any sort of severe punishmnet just makes the following connection:
Those with the power decide what is good and what is not.They need not consider the needs or feelings of anyone else, and only those with power can decide what to do. Therefore I shall one day obtain and exercise power over others and only then I can be free.
Seriously everybody who were regularly abused,and did not grow up to be adults like this are wonderful persons.
And yes all physical punishment, except for the lightest smack(just to raise attention) in a truly, truly emergency situation, is abuse.
And
............
Discipline is not an outside thing.It is not about following rules. It is about making your own, and keeping them sacrosanct.
Discipline is the ability to control your self. It must and can only come from understanding,It must and can only come from caring,It must and can only come from within.This is the lesson every parent must teach.
And there is a limit on discipline don't over do it on yourself, it sucks. I did,I know.

[The Truth and Light]

If it's not acceptable for a teacher to hit a child, I don't see why a parent should be given the right.

Because unlike a teacher, that's their child so they can parent how they see fit.

Sorry, but no. Children are not piece of property that are owned by their parents. They are sentient human beings and they have a right to a life free from abuse and neglect. Physical abuse as a punishment method is draconian, outdated, and unacceptable, and it is within the best interests of the child to prevent it from happening.

[Thanatttynia]

If it's not acceptable for a teacher to hit a child, I don't see why a parent should be given the right.

Because unlike a teacher, that's their child so they can parent how they see fit.

Except many parents aren't fit parents. The child is not just some sort of property of the parent, they shouldn't be able to do what they like with them; are you suggesting that systematically abusing your own child is okay, since that is how the parents want to raise their child?

[The Weeks Clan]

Yes. All but the most mentally retarded of children can understand :

"You did this bad thing so this is your punishment" --> Smack --> "Don't do it again"

No. If they are grounded they understand why rules are, and why it is wrong to disobey. Bout 50% of the rules in our society are utter fallacy and they are only there because they are mindlessly enforced.The other half are necessary. If your kid plays with the power socket, spanking them is not agood way to deal with the situation. If the kid is a toddler just carry them away, this works with animals as well everytime they approach an off limits area, ground them and carry them away,it doesn1t matter that a two years old will not understand your arguments they can read from your tone(not yelling just a strict voice),if they get carred away they'll understand its A forbidden B meaningless to try.If they are older just explain that sockets are not toys beacause you'll get shocked and it hurts like hell, and you'll end up in hospital which is a terrible place.

Any sort of severe punishmnet just makes the following connection:
Those with the power decide what is good and what is not.They need not consider the needs or feelings of anyone else, and only those with power can decide what to do. Therefore I shall one day obtain and exercise power over others and only then I can be free.
Seriously everybody who were regularly abused,and did not grow up to be adults like this are wonderful persons.
And yes all physical punishment, except for the lightest smack(just to raise attention) in a truly, truly emergency situation, is abuse.

Not so sure about this. Sometimes I see children that make me feel sorry for the parents. Some parents seem to take abuse from their kids sometimes. A couple personal observations. And yes these are both extreme situations.

1) Mother takes a child into my local Bi-Lo just last week. Her child wants some cereal. Forget what kind, I think it was lucky charms. She tells the child no. That she bought them last time. He never touched them but once, went stale and they had to throw it out. This kid goes full out whine mode. When she tries to calm her down from making a large scene in a very public place he smacks her, knocks the cereal off the shelf and and just screams. A few moments later his mother is in tears, has no idea what to do and just cries. We had staff attempt to calm the child down which took a very long 5 minutes. Oh, and he got the lucky charms and walked out with a grin.

2) A father was at the DMV when I was waitin to take my driver's test. A child's battery died to his gameboy and demanded that his father take him to go get replacement batteries. When daddy says no that he needed to stay with him at the DMV child throws a fit. Cusses his fatherat around 10 years old. Cusses his father at 10 in public. An then his father tries to negotiate with him to improve his behavior.

When I was growing up I would not have dared tried this with my parents. Why? Because I would have got a belt. Yeah, I thought it was abuse when I was 10 but by the time I was 15 I was mature enough to understand the reasoning of how I acted and what happned. I was rewarded when I done well, and punished when I deserved it.

[Esselman]

Because unlike a teacher, that's their child so they can parent how they see fit.

Sorry, but no. Children are not piece of property that are owned by their parents. They are sentient human beings and they have a right to a life free from abuse and neglect. Physical abuse as a punishment method is draconian, outdated, and unacceptable, and it is within the best interests of the child to prevent it from happening.

I sincerely doubt that it is in the best interests to stop it, unless it becomes abuse which is different. And parents are allowed to parent however they deem fit so long as it is in parameters of the law, so I'm not wrong by your account, now whether it is effective with every child is different, but that's not what you're arguing here.

[The Truth and Light]

Sorry, but no. Children are not piece of property that are owned by their parents. They are sentient human beings and they have a right to a life free from abuse and neglect. Physical abuse as a punishment method is draconian, outdated, and unacceptable, and it is within the best interests of the child to prevent it from happening.

I sincerely doubt that it is in the best interests to stop it, unless it becomes abuse which is different. And parents are allowed to parent however they deem fit so long as it is in parameters of the law, so I'm not wrong by your account, now whether it is effective with every child is different, but that's not what you're arguing here.

The underlined clause is what matters here.

Currently, the law is not morally correct. it allows for physical coercive punishment of children as a discipline measure.

In due time, the law will update to protect our younger fellow citizens, and you'll just have to deal with the fact that you're not allowed to abuse your children anymore.

[Thanatttynia]

And yes all physical punishment, except for the lightest smack(just to raise attention) in a truly, truly emergency situation, is abuse.

But how do you define a lightest smack just to raise attention in a truly emergency situation?

[Esselman]

I sincerely doubt that it is in the best interests to stop it, unless it becomes abuse which is different. And parents are allowed to parent however they deem fit so long as it is in parameters of the law, so I'm not wrong by your account, now whether it is effective with every child is different, but that's not what you're arguing here.

The underlined clause is what matters here.

Currently, the law is not morally correct. it allows for physical coercive punishment of children as a discipline measure.

In due time, the law will update to protect our younger fellow citizens, and you'll just have to deal with the fact that you're not allowed to abuse your children anymore.

I don't see punishing a child in the form of spanking as immoral so long as it isn't abusive, but as the law stands it is allowed like you said and whenever this imaginary time where the law stops the form of punishment, you will be the first person I go to.

[United Republics of Aralon]

No. If they are grounded they understand why rules are, and why it is wrong to disobey. Bout 50% of the rules in our society are utter fallacy and they are only there because they are mindlessly enforced.The other half are necessary. If your kid plays with the power socket, spanking them is not agood way to deal with the situation. If the kid is a toddler just carry them away, this works with animals as well everytime they approach an off limits area, ground them and carry them away,it doesn1t matter that a two years old will not understand your arguments they can read from your tone(not yelling just a strict voice),if they get carred away they'll understand its A forbidden B meaningless to try.If they are older just explain that sockets are not toys beacause you'll get shocked and it hurts like hell, and you'll end up in hospital which is a terrible place.

Any sort of severe punishmnet just makes the following connection:
Those with the power decide what is good and what is not.They need not consider the needs or feelings of anyone else, and only those with power can decide what to do. Therefore I shall one day obtain and exercise power over others and only then I can be free.
Seriously everybody who were regularly abused,and did not grow up to be adults like this are wonderful persons.
And yes all physical punishment, except for the lightest smack(just to raise attention) in a truly, truly emergency situation, is abuse.

Not so sure about this. Sometimes I see children that make me feel sorry for the parents. Some parents seem to take abuse from their kids sometimes. A couple personal observations. And yes these are both extreme situations.

1) Mother takes a child into my local Bi-Lo just last week. Her child wants some cereal. Forget what kind, I think it was lucky charms. She tells the child no. That she bought them last time. He never touched them but once, went stale and they had to throw it out. This kid goes full out whine mode. When she tries to calm her down from making a large scene in a very public place he smacks her, knocks the cereal off the shelf and and just screams. A few moments later his mother is in tears, has no idea what to do and just cries. We had staff attempt to calm the child down which took a very long 5 minutes. Oh, and he got the lucky charms and walked out with a grin.

2) A father was at the DMV when I was waitin to take my driver's test. A child's battery died to his gameboy and demanded that his father take him to go get replacement batteries. When daddy says no that he needed to stay with him at the DMV child throws a fit. Cusses his fatherat around 10 years old. Cusses his father at 10 in public. An then his father tries to negotiate with him to improve his behavior.

When I was growing up I would not have dared tried this with my parents. Why? Because I would have got a belt. Yeah, I thought it was abuse when I was 10 but by the time I was 15 I was mature enough to understand the reasoning of how I acted and what happned. I was rewarded when I done well, and punished when I deserved it.

Yeah your right but the parents should not have spoiled their children. Most of the childrens' behavior develops before they are eight, so children should be taught discipline when very young.
And yes there is a such a thing as stupid people and in many cases they are born stupid, but that justifies no abuse.
Proffessional help, might, well. help in these cases.
I' have seen a child spank his mother, he was like six, but it was clearly the mothers fault because she did not mind at all for some time then started yelling like hell. It is important to be consequential, if the child does wrong stop it right at that moment.Poor kid got terrified and didn't know what was wrong with her mother because as he saw it her mother just exploded with fury for no reason.Had she told him not to do that, the kid would have known why he got yelled at and might even have learned from it.
Also negotiating is wrong. You dont offer chocolate if they stop ranting. you explain them that everyone around right knows sees him as a complete idiot and if he does not considers himself as one it might be better to stop.
PS Why didn't you quote the blue part?

[United Republics of Aralon]

And yes all physical punishment, except for the lightest smack(just to raise attention) in a truly, truly emergency situation, is abuse.

But how do you define a lightest smack just to raise attention in a truly emergency situation?

Kid is trying to set something on fire.Or seriously harm an other kid.

[The Black Hat Guy]

Strongly opposed. Physically restraining a child in a situation where he/she might hurt his/herself is acceptable because it prevents greater harm, but study after study after study has shown that physical punishment is detrimental and counterproductive. There are far better ways to discipline a child.

[The Weeks Clan]

Not so sure about this. Sometimes I see children that make me feel sorry for the parents. Some parents seem to take abuse from their kids sometimes. A couple personal observations. And yes these are both extreme situations.

1) Mother takes a child into my local Bi-Lo just last week. Her child wants some cereal. Forget what kind, I think it was lucky charms. She tells the child no. That she bought them last time. He never touched them but once, went stale and they had to throw it out. This kid goes full out whine mode. When she tries to calm her down from making a large scene in a very public place he smacks her, knocks the cereal off the shelf and and just screams. A few moments later his mother is in tears, has no idea what to do and just cries. We had staff attempt to calm the child down which took a very long 5 minutes. Oh, and he got the lucky charms and walked out with a grin.

2) A father was at the DMV when I was waitin to take my driver's test. A child's battery died to his gameboy and demanded that his father take him to go get replacement batteries. When daddy says no that he needed to stay with him at the DMV child throws a fit. Cusses his fatherat around 10 years old. Cusses his father at 10 in public. An then his father tries to negotiate with him to improve his behavior.

When I was growing up I would not have dared tried this with my parents. Why? Because I would have got a belt. Yeah, I thought it was abuse when I was 10 but by the time I was 15 I was mature enough to understand the reasoning of how I acted and what happned. I was rewarded when I done well, and punished when I deserved it.

Yeah your right but the parents should not have spoiled their children. Most of the childrens' behavior develops before they are eight, so children should be taught discipline when very young.
And yes there is a such a thing as stupid people and in many cases they are born stupid, but that justifies no abuse.
Proffessional help, might, well. help in these cases.
I' have seen a child spank his mother, he was like six, but it was clearly the mothers fault because she did not mind at all for some time then started yelling like hell. It is important to be consequential, if the child does wrong stop it right at that moment.Poor kid got terrified and didn't know what was wrong with her mother because as he saw it her mother just exploded with fury for no reason.Had she told him not to do that, the kid would have known why he got yelled at and might even have learned from it.
Also negotiating is wrong. You dont offer chocolate if they stop ranting. you explain them that everyone around right knows sees him as a complete idiot and if he does not considers himself as one it might be better to stop.

Valid points, parents should not spoil children. My father made it his goal in life to see I wasnt spoiled. But a part of his parenting style was a belt from time to time. Before somebody shouts abuse he never randomly walked in pulled off his belt and hit me across the face with it. I ALWAYS knew it was coming, and I can likely count each one on my hands. In 18 years of being raised bim. My brother might have to add his toes to count. I knew it was coming when I did something I had to look over my shoulder to make sure no one was watching. And there were very few thing that earned us a whiping. Fighting my brother under any circumstance. Lying. And placing ourselves in big danger. Other than that. No whipings.

I actually got 'The talk' most of the time. And I would just tune it out most of the time. Which was ineffective for me and restriction was no option because I almost never left my room.

And I have turned out pretty alright. I was never abused as a child but had a strict upbringing. But now we have kids who get grounded an call the cops on their parents. For...Abuse.

Like I said in my first post.

Use a rod but keep an apple next to it.

[Imsogone]

No. If they are grounded they understand why rules are, and why it is wrong to disobey. Bout 50% of the rules in our society are utter fallacy and they are only there because they are mindlessly enforced.The other half are necessary. If your kid plays with the power socket, spanking them is not agood way to deal with the situation. If the kid is a toddler just carry them away, this works with animals as well everytime they approach an off limits area, ground them and carry them away,it doesn1t matter that a two years old will not understand your arguments they can read from your tone(not yelling just a strict voice),if they get carred away they'll understand its A forbidden B meaningless to try.If they are older just explain that sockets are not toys beacause you'll get shocked and it hurts like hell, and you'll end up in hospital which is a terrible place.

Any sort of severe punishmnet just makes the following connection:
Those with the power decide what is good and what is not.They need not consider the needs or feelings of anyone else, and only those with power can decide what to do. Therefore I shall one day obtain and exercise power over others and only then I can be free.
Seriously everybody who were regularly abused,and did not grow up to be adults like this are wonderful persons.
And yes all physical punishment, except for the lightest smack(just to raise attention) in a truly, truly emergency situation, is abuse.

Not so sure about this. Sometimes I see children that make me feel sorry for the parents. Some parents seem to take abuse from their kids sometimes. A couple personal observations. And yes these are both extreme situations.

1) Mother takes a child into my local Bi-Lo just last week. Her child wants some cereal. Forget what kind, I think it was lucky charms. She tells the child no. That she bought them last time. He never touched them but once, went stale and they had to throw it out. This kid goes full out whine mode. When she tries to calm her down from making a large scene in a very public place he smacks her, knocks the cereal off the shelf and and just screams. A few moments later his mother is in tears, has no idea what to do and just cries. We had staff attempt to calm the child down which took a very long 5 minutes. Oh, and he got the lucky charms and walked out with a grin.

2) A father was at the DMV when I was waitin to take my driver's test. A child's battery died to his gameboy and demanded that his father take him to go get replacement batteries. When daddy says no that he needed to stay with him at the DMV child throws a fit. Cusses his fatherat around 10 years old. Cusses his father at 10 in public. An then his father tries to negotiate with him to improve his behavior.

When I was growing up I would not have dared tried this with my parents. Why? Because I would have got a belt. Yeah, I thought it was abuse when I was 10 but by the time I was 15 I was mature enough to understand the reasoning of how I acted and what happned. I was rewarded when I done well, and punished when I deserved it.

My kids wouldn't have acted like either child and not because I smacked them. My kids learned very quickly that any time I took them anywhere it was to be regarded as a treat and it the privilege was not to be abused. I'd say something like "you're not an idiot, so stop acting like one". If that didn't get a reaction, I'd remove the child(ren) from the area, apologizing to the individual who would have to put away the groceries that were in my cart, and take them home. It was inconvenient for me, but the behavior was never repeated. I had no need to negotiate with my kids about behavior because they knew I would simply reschedule any activity they disrupted for a later time and they would be stuck with a babysitter. Tantrums and bad behavior should not be rewarded - it's that simple. For many kids it's a bid for attention and power - you don't need to hit them, you just deny them the power over you and the attention.

[Zweite Alaje]

Punishing your child through any act of violence is abuse. End of story.

Not really. If the child refuses to comply with a parents orders, it is at the parent's discretion when to use force.

[The Weeks Clan]

Not so sure about this. Sometimes I see children that make me feel sorry for the parents. Some parents seem to take abuse from their kids sometimes. A couple personal observations. And yes these are both extreme situations.

1) Mother takes a child into my local Bi-Lo just last week. Her child wants some cereal. Forget what kind, I think it was lucky charms. She tells the child no. That she bought them last time. He never touched them but once, went stale and they had to throw it out. This kid goes full out whine mode. When she tries to calm her down from making a large scene in a very public place he smacks her, knocks the cereal off the shelf and and just screams. A few moments later his mother is in tears, has no idea what to do and just cries. We had staff attempt to calm the child down which took a very long 5 minutes. Oh, and he got the lucky charms and walked out with a grin.

2) A father was at the DMV when I was waitin to take my driver's test. A child's battery died to his gameboy and demanded that his father take him to go get replacement batteries. When daddy says no that he needed to stay with him at the DMV child throws a fit. Cusses his fatherat around 10 years old. Cusses his father at 10 in public. An then his father tries to negotiate with him to improve his behavior.

When I was growing up I would not have dared tried this with my parents. Why? Because I would have got a belt. Yeah, I thought it was abuse when I was 10 but by the time I was 15 I was mature enough to understand the reasoning of how I acted and what happned. I was rewarded when I done well, and punished when I deserved it.

My kids wouldn't have acted like either child and not because I smacked them. My kids learned very quickly that any time I took them anywhere it was to be regarded as a treat and it the privilege was not to be abused. I'd say something like "you're not an idiot, so stop acting like one". If that didn't get a reaction, I'd remove the child(ren) from the area, apologizing to the individual who would have to put away the groceries that were in my cart, and take them home. It was inconvenient for me, but the behavior was never repeated. I had no need to negotiate with my kids about behavior because they knew I would simply reschedule any activity they disrupted for a later time and they would be stuck with a babysitter. Tantrums and bad behavior should not be rewarded - it's that simple. For many kids it's a bid for attention and power - you don't need to hit them, you just deny them the power over you and the attention.

Kids are different. And there is no universal training manual. I believe some need it. Some dont. If you find a method that works well, that is great. But just because yours works does not always mean someone elses is wrong.

There are some things in life that just do not have a manual. Raising a child is one of them. But, the whipings worked for me when I was little. And I got very few. But the thought of getting it made me walk the line.

[Anollasia]

Violence is bad for you.

[Majoraland]

How many of you here believe that the best way to discipline kids is thru beating? and Why / Why Not?

Just a healthy opinion. No need to be harsh.

Yeah. I have found that violence works as a perfect tool of control. The prowl kids, who I implant its holiness Majoras influence into, can sometimes become troublesome. so I cut one of their hands of and show them the blood and flesh of disobedience. that works. - Priestess of Major

[Ashmoria]

I believe that a rod is needed to raise a child. But keep an apple next to it to reward good deeds.

you think you need to hit a child with a stick?

[Imsogone]

My kids wouldn't have acted like either child and not because I smacked them. My kids learned very quickly that any time I took them anywhere it was to be regarded as a treat and it the privilege was not to be abused. I'd say something like "you're not an idiot, so stop acting like one". If that didn't get a reaction, I'd remove the child(ren) from the area, apologizing to the individual who would have to put away the groceries that were in my cart, and take them home. It was inconvenient for me, but the behavior was never repeated. I had no need to negotiate with my kids about behavior because they knew I would simply reschedule any activity they disrupted for a later time and they would be stuck with a babysitter. Tantrums and bad behavior should not be rewarded - it's that simple. For many kids it's a bid for attention and power - you don't need to hit them, you just deny them the power over you and the attention.

Kids are different. And there is no universal training manual. I believe some need it. Some dont. If you find a method that works well, that is great. But just because yours works does not always mean someone elses is wrong.

There are some things in life that just do not have a manual. Raising a child is one of them. But, the whipings worked for me when I was little. And I got very few. But the thought of getting it made me walk the line.

I have said, in the past, that corporal punishment is not altogether off the table. It is a last resort, when all other methods (provided they're consistently applied) have failed. I have also said that when corporal punishment becomes necessary, it's a failure on the part of the parent as well as the child. No one really wins. That said, most people go with what they know and are frequently not comfortable with learning other options.

[Ashmoria]

Not so sure about this. Sometimes I see children that make me feel sorry for the parents. Some parents seem to take abuse from their kids sometimes. A couple personal observations. And yes these are both extreme situations.

1) Mother takes a child into my local Bi-Lo just last week. Her child wants some cereal. Forget what kind, I think it was lucky charms. She tells the child no. That she bought them last time. He never touched them but once, went stale and they had to throw it out. This kid goes full out whine mode. When she tries to calm her down from making a large scene in a very public place he smacks her, knocks the cereal off the shelf and and just screams. A few moments later his mother is in tears, has no idea what to do and just cries. We had staff attempt to calm the child down which took a very long 5 minutes. Oh, and he got the lucky charms and walked out with a grin.

2) A father was at the DMV when I was waitin to take my driver's test. A child's battery died to his gameboy and demanded that his father take him to go get replacement batteries. When daddy says no that he needed to stay with him at the DMV child throws a fit. Cusses his fatherat around 10 years old. Cusses his father at 10 in public. An then his father tries to negotiate with him to improve his behavior.

When I was growing up I would not have dared tried this with my parents. Why? Because I would have got a belt. Yeah, I thought it was abuse when I was 10 but by the time I was 15 I was mature enough to understand the reasoning of how I acted and what happned. I was rewarded when I done well, and punished when I deserved it.

My kids wouldn't have acted like either child and not because I smacked them. My kids learned very quickly that any time I took them anywhere it was to be regarded as a treat and it the privilege was not to be abused. I'd say something like "you're not an idiot, so stop acting like one". If that didn't get a reaction, I'd remove the child(ren) from the area, apologizing to the individual who would have to put away the groceries that were in my cart, and take them home. It was inconvenient for me, but the behavior was never repeated. I had no need to negotiate with my kids about behavior because they knew I would simply reschedule any activity they disrupted for a later time and they would be stuck with a babysitter. Tantrums and bad behavior should not be rewarded - it's that simple. For many kids it's a bid for attention and power - you don't need to hit them, you just deny them the power over you and the attention.

yeah the mother must have been having a bad day.

my son learned from the time he noticed that there was stuff on the shelves that it wasn't his choice.