Child Discipline

[Ovon]

because i always finished it before school was out

By the way, the "I only hit you because you make me" is a classic abuser line.

thats true

[Ashmoria]

no I understand your post.

my nephew (totally different former boy from the one above) is in therapy now for PTSD from years of being abused by his father in ways similar to what you experienced. the effect of brutality like that lasts a lifetime.

Again, thanks for clarifying. And you're absolutely right that it lasts a lifetime.

It's almost funny, in a sad way.
When I ceased allowing my parents' abuse into my life, they made all kinds of justifications for what they had done - and all of those justifications focussed on what was wrong with me, rather than on them.

My mother sent me letter asserting that I had been hypnotised by an evil psycho-therapist, who had implanted false memories of abuse in my mind. (At the time I hadn't received any kind of counselling whatsoever)

My father posted on a public bulletin-board for "missing persons" that I was schizophrenic, and it was my "voices' that told me I'd been abused.
(I learned of the existence of this at work, of all places - it was during a quiet patch, and a work colleague, out of boredom, googled his own name, then the names of the rest of our team. So the first I learned of my supposed schizophrenia was when he asked, aloud, "hey *my name* do you really hear voices?" If I didn't already hate my parents enough...)

there is a lot to be said for therapy. it can help you sort out your past and, maybe, root out some negative things you might still think about yourself that is not true at all. being told that you are crap is hard to get past on your own.

[Yaltabaoth]

well when i got in trouble i would get beat, but i deserved it i was also loved bye both my parents, i think that both love and a good knowing whats right and wrong is important, i got yelled at and no spanked i never learned a lesson that way i would just do it again but if i was spanked for doing something wrong i never did it again i was spanked as a child and i still love my parents because know that i'm grown up i know that they did it for my own good.

What if the beating was never followed up with love?

I have exactly one memory of being hugged affectionately by either of my parents (it was my father, who was most often the giver of beatings), and I was so confused and frightened that I wasn't able to return the hug because I was literally too scared to move.

[Imsogone]

I recall being spanked once while I was growing up. I was sassing my mother and my father told me that if i didn't quit, he would spank me. I said, and I believe these were my exact words, "Ha, you'll never spank me" and continued to sass my mother. I was over his knee and got three sharp swats before I knew what happened.

I still grew up holding my parents in contempt, not because of their disciplinary style, but because of their lifestyle. My father was a compulsive liar, thief and cheater. My mother put up with it for twenty years before divorcing him and then spent the rest of her life blaming him for all her problems. He married his girlfriend (third wife) who was young enough to be his daughter - he was faithful to her only because he was, by then, too old and tired to do anything.

All I learned from their disciplinary actions was to keep my opinions to myself and not let anyone know how I felt about anything.

I also learned that my parents' affection usually had hooks in it.

[French Union]

How many of you here believe that the best way to discipline kids is thru beating? and Why / Why Not?

Just a healthy opinion. No need to be harsh.

I don't have anything against a parent "beating" their child as a form of discipline. It's quick to show them their behavior is considering unacceptable and will force them to have them considering not doing it if they wish to avoid the negative outcome. Just as a dog will modify it's own behavior if it learns certain acts will have undesirable outcomes, be it yelling at it or spanking it. Of course punishment alone would properly be a poor idea, its best to have some kind of reward system built for when it (young child in question...or dog) shows desired actions/performance.

[Yaltabaoth]

How many of you here believe that the best way to discipline kids is thru beating? and Why / Why Not?

Just a healthy opinion. No need to be harsh.

I don't have anything against a parent "beating" their child as a form of discipline. It's quick to show them their behavior is considering unacceptable and will force them to have them considering not doing it if they wish to avoid the negative outcome. Just as a dog will modify it's own behavior if it learns certain acts will have undesirable outcomes, be it yelling at it or spanking it. Of course punishment alone would properly be a poor idea, its best to have some kind of reward system built for when it (young child in question...or dog) shows desired actions/performance.

Oh goody, we're back to comparing children to dogs.
What an enlightened attitude you have.

THIS IS SARCASM, LEST THE SUBTLETY ESCAPE YOU.

[Parhe]

How the hell do you build up credit for stuff like cars, homes, or a business if you use it for nothing else?

*laughs*
Simple. You spend it on stuff that you already know you can pay back. Use it to buy food, then pay back the money on the credit card. You already had the money for it, you just used credit instead. Elaborating further, you don't go into debt for anything other than a car, house, or business venture.

To be fair you originally said all credit and only on those three at all.

[Yaltabaoth]

Again, thanks for clarifying. And you're absolutely right that it lasts a lifetime.

It's almost funny, in a sad way.
When I ceased allowing my parents' abuse into my life, they made all kinds of justifications for what they had done - and all of those justifications focussed on what was wrong with me, rather than on them.

My mother sent me letter asserting that I had been hypnotised by an evil psycho-therapist, who had implanted false memories of abuse in my mind. (At the time I hadn't received any kind of counselling whatsoever)

My father posted on a public bulletin-board for "missing persons" that I was schizophrenic, and it was my "voices' that told me I'd been abused.
(I learned of the existence of this at work, of all places - it was during a quiet patch, and a work colleague, out of boredom, googled his own name, then the names of the rest of our team. So the first I learned of my supposed schizophrenia was when he asked, aloud, "hey *my name* do you really hear voices?" If I didn't already hate my parents enough...)

there is a lot to be said for therapy. it can help you sort out your past and, maybe, root out some negative things you might still think about yourself that is not true at all. being told that you are crap is hard to get past on your own.

I have had therapy since then, and I even had the bizarre experience of having my therapist actually break down in tears herself once in front of me after I described one particular incident.

My biggest fear of therapy was that I would be telling my most intimate fears to a stranger, and the idea of picking a stranger out of the phone-book was too intimidating.
In my early thirties my girlfriend at the time had a friend who had tried various therapists and found one he really trusted, so she asked him to refer me, and likewise I found her surprisingly easy to relate to.

As a result I made significant progress and managed to deal with a few other issues that had been troubling me at the same time. I'll never forget that year and I'll never stop being grateful for how much she helped me.

That said, parents are still the single biggest influence in our lives, and nothing will ever change the fact that mine were horribly abusive.

Why haven't I got over it, after 20 years of independence?
Because so many other people continue to hold some kind of almost-religious reverence for the idea of "parenthood" without ever actually paying attention to the detail.

I am so fucking sick of hearing shit like "honour thy mother and father". If my mother and father don't honour me, why the fuck should I reciprocate?

Sorry to the abuse-apologists like Zweite Alaje, (apology not sincere) but if the reason you have children is to lord your authority over them as children, and you don't give a damn about how they relate to you once they're adults, and choose to throw you to the trash, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU EVER BECOME A PARENT AT ALL?

[Ovon]

well when i got in trouble i would get beat, but i deserved it i was also loved bye both my parents, i think that both love and a good knowing whats right and wrong is important, i got yelled at and no spanked i never learned a lesson that way i would just do it again but if i was spanked for doing something wrong i never did it again i was spanked as a child and i still love my parents because know that i'm grown up i know that they did it for my own good.

What if the beating was never followed up with love?

I have exactly one memory of being hugged affectionately by either of my parents (it was my father, who was most often the giver of beatings), and I was so confused and frightened that I wasn't able to return the hug because I was literally too scared to move.

it depends on the parents. and if the parents no what is write, most parents raise there kids different than they were raised so if you were beat you wont beat your kids because you know how it feels but they wont so when they grow up and have kids they might beat there kids if they act up, it a repeating process that i have seen.

[Dolphin with an AK-47]

I dont agree with parents beating their children, but the odd smack now and again wont do any harm.

[French Union]

I don't have anything against a parent "beating" their child as a form of discipline. It's quick to show them their behavior is considering unacceptable and will force them to have them considering not doing it if they wish to avoid the negative outcome. Just as a dog will modify it's own behavior if it learns certain acts will have undesirable outcomes, be it yelling at it or spanking it. Of course punishment alone would properly be a poor idea, its best to have some kind of reward system built for when it (young child in question...or dog) shows desired actions/performance.

Oh goody, we're back to comparing children to dogs.
What an enlightened attitude you have.

THIS IS SARCASM, LEST THE SUBTLETY ESCAPE YOU.

I don't need someone like you to tell me something as basic of a fact as what one plus one equals.

[Distruzio]

no I understand your post.

my nephew (totally different former boy from the one above) is in therapy now for PTSD from years of being abused by his father in ways similar to what you experienced. the effect of brutality like that lasts a lifetime.

Again, thanks for clarifying. And you're absolutely right that it lasts a lifetime.

It's almost funny, in a sad way.
When I ceased allowing my parents' abuse into my life, they made all kinds of justifications for what they had done - and all of those justifications focussed on what was wrong with me, rather than on them.

My mother sent me letter asserting that I had been hypnotised by an evil psycho-therapist, who had implanted false memories of abuse in my mind. (At the time I hadn't received any kind of counselling whatsoever)

My father posted on a public bulletin-board for "missing persons" that I was schizophrenic, and it was my "voices' that told me I'd been abused.
(I learned of the existence of this at work, of all places - it was during a quiet patch, and a work colleague, out of boredom, googled his own name, then the names of the rest of our team. So the first I learned of my supposed schizophrenia was when he asked, aloud, "hey *my name* do you really hear voices?" If I didn't already hate my parents enough...)

My mother used several of the same tactics to defend her actions with me.

She now knows that the only form of contact I'll accept is through hand written letters.

I cannot deny that there was, for a long time, much anger between my mother and myself. But, with the help of my religion, I've learned to accept her as she is - to love her even. I can't change her. I shouldn't try. She loved me the best way she could. Abuse is abuse, and I'm making no excuses for what she did, but it does neither of us any good for my anger to take on a sense of entitlement. I was not entitled to a better mother. I was not entitled to a father present in my life. I have to want them both. I have to earn them both. I have. My father and his family now exist in my life. My mother still has some time to go (and not by my choice, either).

I had to establish boundaries with the both of them. It took years. Eventually, however, they both acceded and, in their own way and time, have (or will have, in the case of my mother) joined my life.

[Yaltabaoth]

What if the beating was never followed up with love?

I have exactly one memory of being hugged affectionately by either of my parents (it was my father, who was most often the giver of beatings), and I was so confused and frightened that I wasn't able to return the hug because I was literally too scared to move.

it depends on the parents. and if the parents no what is write, most parents raise there kids different than they were raised so if you were beat you wont beat your kids because you know how it feels but they wont so when they grow up and have kids they might beat there kids if they act up, it a repeating process that i have seen.

Has anything I've posted in this thread suggested that my my parents knew what was right?
My parents were abused, it didn't stop them repeating their abuses on me in the slightest.

Let me give you a specific example.

My mother took cooking classes in school.
She was expected by her father to bring whatever she cooked at school home to contribute to the family table.
She often had the food she had cooked at school stolen by other kids on the school bus home.
Whenever she arrived home without food, she told her father that it was taken by kids on the bus, and she was never believed - and received a beating for lying.

My parents signed me up for a paper-run as soon as I was old enough.
I got paid about $2 a day, so $12-14 a week depending on whether there was a sunday paper.
I wasn't allowed to spend any of that money I earned, it all had to go into my savings account (which my parents had total control over).
Sometimes the other kids with paper runs would beat me up and take my pay.

If I went home without pay, I was accused by my parents of spending it.
I would tell them that it had been stolen from me, and they would just assume I was lying.
So I didn't just get beaten up and stolen from by other kids, I'd go home to an unavoidable beating for, supposedly, lying.

[Yaltabaoth]

Oh goody, we're back to comparing children to dogs.
What an enlightened attitude you have.

THIS IS SARCASM, LEST THE SUBTLETY ESCAPE YOU.

I don't need someone like you to tell me something as basic of a fact as what one plus one equals.

Please elaborate on exactly what you mean by "someone like you".

[Ovon]

it depends on the parents. and if the parents no what is write, most parents raise there kids different than they were raised so if you were beat you wont beat your kids because you know how it feels but they wont so when they grow up and have kids they might beat there kids if they act up, it a repeating process that i have seen.

Has anything I've posted in this thread suggested that my my parents knew what was right?
My parents were abused, it didn't stop them repeating their abuses on me in the slightest.

Let me give you a specific example.

My mother took cooking classes in school.
She was expected by her father to bring whatever she cooked at school home to contribute to the family table.
She often had the food she had cooked at school stolen by other kids on the school bus home.
Whenever she arrived home without food, she told her father that it was taken by kids on the bus, and she was never believed - and received a beating for lying.

My parents signed me up for a paper-run as soon as I was old enough.
I got paid about $2 a day, so $12-14 a week depending on whether there was a sunday paper.
I wasn't allowed to spend any of that money I earned, it all had to go into my savings account (which my parents had total control over).
Sometimes the other kids with paper runs would beat me up and take my pay.

If I went home without pay, I was accused by my parents of spending it.
I would tell them that it had been stolen from me, and they would just assume I was lying.
So I didn't just get beaten up and stolen from by other kids, I'd go home to an unavoidable beating for, supposedly, lying.

as i said it depends on the parents, and i'm just saying from what i have seen i can't have seen all over the world what every parent douse, people are difforent you can't really tell them how to raise a kid but you can guide them.

[Yaltabaoth]

Again, thanks for clarifying. And you're absolutely right that it lasts a lifetime.

It's almost funny, in a sad way.
When I ceased allowing my parents' abuse into my life, they made all kinds of justifications for what they had done - and all of those justifications focussed on what was wrong with me, rather than on them.

My mother sent me letter asserting that I had been hypnotised by an evil psycho-therapist, who had implanted false memories of abuse in my mind. (At the time I hadn't received any kind of counselling whatsoever)

My father posted on a public bulletin-board for "missing persons" that I was schizophrenic, and it was my "voices' that told me I'd been abused.
(I learned of the existence of this at work, of all places - it was during a quiet patch, and a work colleague, out of boredom, googled his own name, then the names of the rest of our team. So the first I learned of my supposed schizophrenia was when he asked, aloud, "hey *my name* do you really hear voices?" If I didn't already hate my parents enough...)

My mother used several of the same tactics to defend her actions with me.

She now knows that the only form of contact I'll accept is through hand written letters.

I cannot deny that there was, for a long time, much anger between my mother and myself. But, with the help of my religion, I've learned to accept her as she is - to love her even. I can't change her. I shouldn't try. She loved me the best way she could. Abuse is abuse, and I'm making no excuses for what she did, but it does neither of us any good for my anger to take on a sense of entitlement. I was not entitled to a better mother. I was not entitled to a father present in my life. I have to want them both. I have to earn them both. I have. My father and his family now exist in my life. My mother still has some time to go (and not by my choice, either).

I had to establish boundaries with the both of them. It took years. Eventually, however, they both acceded and, in their own way and time, have (or will have, in the case of my mother) joined my life.

Thank you for this post, I know I'm far from the only person to have had a shitty upbringing but it's rare to be able to discuss it (and even in this thread I've found myself frustrated at being shut down by deniers).

I can't imagine myself reconciling with them, and (I really can't elaborate on this, so I'll just have to ask that you believe me) I've recently had confirmation through a third party that they remain utterly unrepentant.

It's almost 2 decades since my last contact.
As sad at it sounds, I'm actually (kinda) looking forward to notification of their deaths. Just so I'll finally know they can't ever harm me again.

[Khadgar]

Thank you for this post, I know I'm far from the only person to have had a shitty upbringing but it's rare to be able to discuss it (and even in this thread I've found myself frustrated at being shut down by deniers).

I can't imagine myself reconciling with them, and (I really can't elaborate on this, so I'll just have to ask that you believe me) I've recently had confirmation through a third party that they remain utterly unrepentant.

It's almost 2 decades since my last contact.
As sad at it sounds, I'm actually (kinda) looking forward to notification of their deaths. Just so I'll finally know they can't ever harm me again.

Personally I'm going to my dad's funeral when that vile prick finally dies. Just to make sure he's dead.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Thank you for this post, I know I'm far from the only person to have had a shitty upbringing but it's rare to be able to discuss it (and even in this thread I've found myself frustrated at being shut down by deniers).

I can't imagine myself reconciling with them, and (I really can't elaborate on this, so I'll just have to ask that you believe me) I've recently had confirmation through a third party that they remain utterly unrepentant.

It's almost 2 decades since my last contact.
As sad at it sounds, I'm actually (kinda) looking forward to notification of their deaths. Just so I'll finally know they can't ever harm me again.

Personally I'm going to my dad's funeral when that vile prick finally dies. Just to make sure he's dead.

Take one of his socks and throw it in a river. I hear that if they come back, they drown looking for it.

[Khadgar]

Personally I'm going to my dad's funeral when that vile prick finally dies. Just to make sure he's dead.

Take one of his socks and throw it in a river. I hear that if they come back, they drown looking for it.

Suppose that'd be classier than opening the casket and pissing on him.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Take one of his socks and throw it in a river. I hear that if they come back, they drown looking for it.

Suppose that'd be classier than opening the casket and pissing on him.

There's always gasoline and a flare.

[Yaltabaoth]

Thank you for this post, I know I'm far from the only person to have had a shitty upbringing but it's rare to be able to discuss it (and even in this thread I've found myself frustrated at being shut down by deniers).

I can't imagine myself reconciling with them, and (I really can't elaborate on this, so I'll just have to ask that you believe me) I've recently had confirmation through a third party that they remain utterly unrepentant.

It's almost 2 decades since my last contact.
As sad at it sounds, I'm actually (kinda) looking forward to notification of their deaths. Just so I'll finally know they can't ever harm me again.

Personally I'm going to my dad's funeral when that vile prick finally dies. Just to make sure he's dead.

I now live in a different country, so I can't see the value in taking the time off work, paying for flights and accommodation etc, just to acknowledge the death of someone whose life I can't find any value in.

I do not wish to diminish your choice in any way, everyone has to decide for themselves how they deal with the death of their parents.

These days I actually find that it's harder to be be honest with people about the fact that I don't have any kind of relationship with them.

If there is one thing I am absolutely sick of, it's the apparent "default" position that everyone loves their parents unless you're some kind of weirdo.
I committed the terrible sin at work a few weeks ago, where a few workmates were "complaining" about how they had all established good relationships with their parents post-independence, and I actually dared to be honest for once.

[Freiheit Reich]

Depends on what he did. I believe don't hit unless hit first and believe extra duties and writing assignments are better approaches to punishment.

I had to write essays as punishment and this was useful and helped my writing skills. Being hit just made me angry and defensive because I did not hit first. Being told that 'if I had a knife in my hand I could kill you' made me fearful, angry and eager to leave home (threat was only once though). Not good for family bonding.

Threats of being sent to the 'Fosters', violence, and hitting should not be used except in really bad situations.

Extra duty is good because the parents can win by having free labor (with justification to the child). The child loses free time and learns a lesson.

[Ashmoria]

Why haven't I got over it, after 20 years of independence?
Because so many other people continue to hold some kind of almost-religious reverence for the idea of "parenthood" without ever actually paying attention to the detail.

I am so fucking sick of hearing shit like "honour thy mother and father". If my mother and father don't honour me, why the fuck should I reciprocate?

I don't think you can get over it. you can learn to deal with it. you can refuse to treat your own children that way. but it will always affect you.

people who think that you should always forgive your parents, honor them, let them stay in your life, didn't have bad parents. they have no idea how damaging it is.

[Mollary]

As a child I would say that many get the crap beaten out of them at school and really could do without it at home. Mind you most people I know who were disciplined physically, but not excessively, seem well balanced. On the other hand many others who I know now despise their parents for it and will probably never forgive them.

[Ashmoria]

Oh goody, we're back to comparing children to dogs.
What an enlightened attitude you have.

THIS IS SARCASM, LEST THE SUBTLETY ESCAPE YOU.

I don't need someone like you to tell me something as basic of a fact as what one plus one equals.

pssst

you can't beat your dog either.