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Gay marriages....now what about siblings parents or animals?

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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:19 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
Gay history is required to be taught in California. How does this prepare people for jobs?

My jobs never required me to know about evolution. If it is field specific than it can be taught in college in major related classes.

Source, it is required, now.

Also, by that logic, we shouldn't start teaching basic algebra until college. :roll:

Now, now, let's not diss the algebra. I still need it in school, I use it all the time.
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:20 pm

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:Gay history is required to be taught in California. How does this prepare people for jobs?

My jobs never required me to know about evolution. If it is field specific than it can be taught in college in major related classes.

Plenty of jobs don't require Algebra either. Or Calc. Or a Foreign Language. Or Physical Education. Or Chemistry. Or Biology. Or Science at all. Or Woodshop. Or Home Ed. Or literature.

So what exactly should we teach in Highschool?

Jesus!
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Anachronous Rex
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:20 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Death Metal wrote:There are animal cruelty laws, you know.

Yeah, but last I checked animals don't have the right to sign contracts. Or vote.

Egads, can you imagine animals voting?

It would certainly change the campaign adds...

Bob Dole promises MORE BANANAS!

EDIT: Actually, I guess it wouldn't be that much of a change.
Last edited by Anachronous Rex on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Death Metal
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Postby Death Metal » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:21 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Death Metal wrote:There are animal cruelty laws, you know.

Yeah, but last I checked animals don't have the right to sign contracts. Or vote.

Egads, can you imagine animals voting?


Nobody ever said they had equal rights as humans. Only that they had some (namely, the right to not be starved to death in a cage too small for them or forced to fight each other to the death for entertainment).
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Postby Menassa » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:21 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Plenty of jobs don't require Algebra either. Or Calc. Or a Foreign Language. Or Physical Education. Or Chemistry. Or Biology. Or Science at all. Or Woodshop. Or Home Ed. Or literature.

So what exactly should we teach in Highschool?

Jesus!

Just Jesus... not any of the Jesus compromising stuff... even if it's in our own books.
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Postby Agymnum » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:22 pm

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Yeah, but last I checked animals don't have the right to sign contracts. Or vote.

Egads, can you imagine animals voting?

It would certainly change the campaign adds...

Bob Dole promises MORE BANANAS!


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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:22 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Yeah, but last I checked animals don't have the right to sign contracts. Or vote.

Egads, can you imagine animals voting?

Nobody ever said they had equal rights as humans. Only that they had some (namely, the right to not be starved to death in a cage too small for them or forced to fight each other to the death for entertainment).

True.

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Yeah, but last I checked animals don't have the right to sign contracts. Or vote.

Egads, can you imagine animals voting?

It would certainly change the campaign adds...

Bob Dole promises MORE BANANAS!

Muffins promises to not kill you all!
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:23 pm

Menassa wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Jesus!

Just Jesus... not any of the Jesus compromising stuff... even if it's in our own books.

Of course not, when will we ever need to learn about compromise, hm?
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Postby Death Metal » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:26 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:Muffins promises to not kill you all!


Pfft. Everyone knows cats are CE and are capable of killing most humans with a single attack roll.
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:28 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Muffins promises to not kill you all!

Pfft. Everyone knows cats are CE and are capable of killing most humans with a single attack roll.

But they are so cwte!!! Aww, it's purring!
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Postby YellowApple » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:31 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Techno-Titania wrote:
Yes they do.

Such as?


Not being beaten? Not being abandoned on a curb? Not being tortured out of malice or starved out of neglect?

Last I checked, animal cruelty laws do, in fact, exist.

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Postby Rotburg » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:33 pm

I get that argument all the time. What if people marry a rock? Or a stapler? Or their sister?
My answer used to be, "That will never happen." Now it's more like, "WHO CARES?" Do I honestly care if someone marries his sister? Or his favorite comic book? No. I wouldn't. But whatever. The only thing I'm concerned about is inbreeding and its affects on children. I really think marriage is pointless these days anyway.
As far as people marrying animals, that one I really don't think will ever happen. Animals cannot give consent.

Gay history is required to be taught in California? I live in California. I've lived here all of my life. In high school we FINALLY talked about gay rights (and about time too). It was in ONE page in our history book. We glanced at it for about a minute and then moved on. I thought that was pathetic. The only time you ever discuss gays is in politics classes in college, and if an author or something of a book/character in a story/etc. was gay. It's always a very small discussion if you even touch it. How will it help you in your adult life? It will make you open-minded, more accepting, and more intelligent. It will improve your relationships with others and make you more of a likable person. ;)
Last edited by Rotburg on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:45 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
Gay history is required to be taught in California. How does this prepare people for jobs?

My jobs never required me to know about evolution. If it is field specific than it can be taught in college in major related classes.


Source, it is required, now.

Also, by that logic, we shouldn't start teaching basic algebra until college. :roll:


Hey, did you hear about this awesome new website called Google? It allows you to type in what you want to search for and shows the results in seconds. It is simple and fast to use. I recommend you try it.

Other websites that do this amazing task are yahoo.com, bing.com, and ask.com

Here is a list on the awesome Google website (seriously, give it a try):

http://www.google.com.hk/search?newwind ... C%E5%B0%8B

One source that says it is a law:

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/22/138504488 ... -classroom

Algebra is useful for most tasks. Much more used than the theory of evolution.

http://www.mathworksheetscenter.com/mat ... gebra.html
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:47 pm

Menassa wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
If you can accept gay marriage I believe one day you can accept polygamy and sibling/parent marriage.

Personally, I find heterosexual sibling marriage less weird than gay marriage.

The Bible accepts polygamy.


Yes, I know. As I said, get the govt. out of marriage and we can have polygamy as well.
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:47 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:Algebra is useful for most tasks. Much more used than the theory of evolution.

Next time you go see your doctor, tell that to your doctor's face. I dare you.
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:54 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Let's totally have prayer in schools and have our students taught creationism instead of evolution, amirite? Fuck those evolutionary biologists, fuck geologists, fuck biochemists, fuck scientists in general, those so-called know-it-all "experts". What do they know, compared to the all holy masses, amirite?


Dammit, Indi, this is getting sigged AND AQ'd. :rofl:

Llamalandia wrote:
To the first part okay , I ll wait then be happy to recognize gay families fully and completely as equals to straight families. ON the second part, yeah in sense they are.


1. Why fucking wait?

2. How so?

Llamalandia wrote:
No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.


How does the majority know when it should defer to experts if they don't know enough to know that they don't have enough expertise in a given field to dictate policy decisions?

Agymnum wrote:
These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.


I think a lot of them are the same people who beat/abuse their kids, because "SPAIR TEH RAWD, SPOYL TEH CHILD". After all, no chance of getting reported for child abuse to the ebil, totalitarian government if your bruised kid stays home all damn day.

Llamalandia wrote:
Why are you knocking homeschooling, many people homeschool their kids, because guess what they get a better education that way than in the public school system and while it's anecdotal, some of the best science oympiad teams in my state were home school association so it's not all about religious nutballs who homeschool their kids. :)


Source on that science oympiad thing?

Also, source on that "better education" bit? One instance of a homeschool group winning a science oympiad doesn't automatically make homeschooling the best educational system ever. The fact is, if an idiot parent is homeschooling their kids, chances are, the kids are going to be idiots too.

Freiheit Reich wrote:Easy solution: get the government out of marriage. This means people that get married would still have to get a separate power of attorney because marriage certificates would mean very little as far as the government was concerned but the power of attorney would have legal powers.

The marriage would then be merely a ceremony. Important to peope participating but as meaningless as a Bar Mitzvah or a person's first communion as far as the govt. is concerned. This would also make divorce easier because there would be less legal consequences (for example, alimony could not be required, property would go to name of person that bought it, it would be split if both spouses signed for it). Both spouses would probably start having to sign for purchases to protect themselves in cases of divorce.

If the govt. gets out of marriage than 'yes' we can even have a man marrying his Barbie doll or any strange marriage you can think of.


What about hospital visitation rights? Or medical decision rights? Or funeral/final/real estate decisions? How do those get guaranteed in a manner as simple or cheap as a civil marriage?

The whole "get government out of marriage" spiel REEKS of total ignorance of the complexities of marriage, and also reeks of the childish "if I can't have X MY WAY, then NOBODY can have it at all!!" (followed by a temper tantrum).

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.


The simple fact is that you need a broad education to prepare you for college, so that you can be prepared for the career you wish to be in (and if you choose to just get a job out of high school, you STILL need a rather broad education).

Agymnum wrote:
They should not be allowed to major in biology. They are holding back their field and either need to straighten their views out or find a new career.

Would we allow those who do not believe in gravity to major in engineering? Would we allow those who do not believe in calculus to major in mathematics? Why not let those who do not believe in Newton's Laws of Motion to major in physics?


As somebody who wants to double major in Aerospace Engineering and Astrophysics, I deny EVERYTHING Newton came up with.

*builds a rocket to the moon that explodes on the launchpad*


Make power of attorney easier and cheaper to get. Have a simplified form available off the internet and only needing a notarized seal and a witness to the signatures (as well as ID proof for signers). Make this easy to do at a courthouse for a small fee (maybe $10-15).

This is cheaper than marriage (which often costs thousands of dollars although of course it can be done much cheaper).

Most people marry for reasons other than saving a few bucks on power of attorney.

Everybody can have marriage, it just wouldn't be important in the govt. eyes. Simplify the govt. This also allows gays to get married as well as people wishing to marry their dog, sister, and Barbie doll.
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Postby YellowApple » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:00 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:Hey, did you hear about this awesome new website called Google? It allows you to type in what you want to search for and shows the results in seconds. It is simple and fast to use. I recommend you try it.

Other websites that do this amazing task are yahoo.com, bing.com, and ask.com


No love for DuckDuckGo? Lame...

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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:40 am

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Dammit, Indi, this is getting sigged AND AQ'd. :rofl:



1. Why fucking wait?

2. How so?



How does the majority know when it should defer to experts if they don't know enough to know that they don't have enough expertise in a given field to dictate policy decisions?



I think a lot of them are the same people who beat/abuse their kids, because "SPAIR TEH RAWD, SPOYL TEH CHILD". After all, no chance of getting reported for child abuse to the ebil, totalitarian government if your bruised kid stays home all damn day.



Source on that science oympiad thing?

Also, source on that "better education" bit? One instance of a homeschool group winning a science oympiad doesn't automatically make homeschooling the best educational system ever. The fact is, if an idiot parent is homeschooling their kids, chances are, the kids are going to be idiots too.



What about hospital visitation rights? Or medical decision rights? Or funeral/final/real estate decisions? How do those get guaranteed in a manner as simple or cheap as a civil marriage?

The whole "get government out of marriage" spiel REEKS of total ignorance of the complexities of marriage, and also reeks of the childish "if I can't have X MY WAY, then NOBODY can have it at all!!" (followed by a temper tantrum).



The simple fact is that you need a broad education to prepare you for college, so that you can be prepared for the career you wish to be in (and if you choose to just get a job out of high school, you STILL need a rather broad education).



As somebody who wants to double major in Aerospace Engineering and Astrophysics, I deny EVERYTHING Newton came up with.

*builds a rocket to the moon that explodes on the launchpad*


Make power of attorney easier and cheaper to get. Have a simplified form available off the internet and only needing a notarized seal and a witness to the signatures (as well as ID proof for signers). Make this easy to do at a courthouse for a small fee (maybe $10-15).

This is cheaper than marriage (which often costs thousands of dollars although of course it can be done much cheaper).

Most people marry for reasons other than saving a few bucks on power of attorney.

Everybody can have marriage, it just wouldn't be important in the govt. eyes. Simplify the govt. This also allows gays to get married as well as people wishing to marry their dog, sister, and Barbie doll.


You think power of attorney is about being cheap? Damn. OK power of attorney means the person with power of attorney gets to make decisions for a person, including medical decisions, if the person is unable (you know coma, brain dead, unconscious, mentally incapable that sort of thing) to. This is one of the most important rights in a marriage. Also, marriage will always be important to the government because there are certain rights that directly involve the government that cannot be taken care of through anything non government. Even if you were to pare the institution down to those rights, they wold still be marriage. About the cost of marriage,, if all you are interested in is the license, than marriage than it probably costs less than $100.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:47 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
Make power of attorney easier and cheaper to get. Have a simplified form available off the internet and only needing a notarized seal and a witness to the signatures (as well as ID proof for signers). Make this easy to do at a courthouse for a small fee (maybe $10-15).

This is cheaper than marriage (which often costs thousands of dollars although of course it can be done much cheaper).

Most people marry for reasons other than saving a few bucks on power of attorney.

Everybody can have marriage, it just wouldn't be important in the govt. eyes. Simplify the govt. This also allows gays to get married as well as people wishing to marry their dog, sister, and Barbie doll.


You think power of attorney is about being cheap? Damn. OK power of attorney means the person with power of attorney gets to make decisions for a person, including medical decisions, if the person is unable (you know coma, brain dead, unconscious, mentally incapable that sort of thing) to. This is one of the most important rights in a marriage. Also, marriage will always be important to the government because there are certain rights that directly involve the government that cannot be taken care of through anything non government. Even if you were to pare the institution down to those rights, they wold still be marriage.


I meant that marriage would not be needed to be recognized by the government because people can get power of attorney without marriage.

The govt. does not need to be involved in marriage and could easily exit this area of our lives if they wished to.
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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:51 am

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
You think power of attorney is about being cheap? Damn. OK power of attorney means the person with power of attorney gets to make decisions for a person, including medical decisions, if the person is unable (you know coma, brain dead, unconscious, mentally incapable that sort of thing) to. This is one of the most important rights in a marriage. Also, marriage will always be important to the government because there are certain rights that directly involve the government that cannot be taken care of through anything non government. Even if you were to pare the institution down to those rights, they wold still be marriage.


I meant that marriage would not be needed to be recognized by the government because people can get power of attorney without marriage.

The govt. does not need to be involved in marriage and could easily exit this area of our lives if they wished to.


Did you miss the part were I said there are other parts of marriage that can only be dealt with by the government, like emigration, or rights within the military (you know a government run program)?
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Freiheit Reich
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:03 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
I meant that marriage would not be needed to be recognized by the government because people can get power of attorney without marriage.

The govt. does not need to be involved in marriage and could easily exit this area of our lives if they wished to.


Did you miss the part were I said there are other parts of marriage that can only be dealt with by the government, like emigration, or rights within the military (you know a government run program)?


These could be changed as well.

Man allowed to sponsor 1 person at a time (and underage children belonging to sponsored person). The sponsored person can go through a process to get visa and then citizenship. Once a citizen he/she no longer needs a sponsor.

If sponsor no longer wants person in country, he/she can revoke it and the sponsoree will lose visa (along with children).

Sponsoree can't get welfare benefits because the sponsor should provide these benefits (and/or private charities).

Military: No benefits for married soldiers should be given. This encourages people to get married for benefits (a reason military has high divorce rate). Saves govt. money. Military members could be allowed to sponsor somebody as a dependent (similar to sponsorship program). Dependents will be limited-maybe 1 non-family member per soldier. No questions asked revocation allowed as well.

The revocations can cause problems but that is the bad thing about depending on somebody. A reason we should try to be self-reliant as much as possible.

Policies would have to be changed but it can be done. Why treat married people better than single people? Is this fair?
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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:08 am

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Did you miss the part were I said there are other parts of marriage that can only be dealt with by the government, like emigration, or rights within the military (you know a government run program)?


These could be changed as well.

Man allowed to sponsor 1 person at a time (and underage children belonging to sponsored person). The sponsored person can go through a process to get visa and then citizenship. Once a citizen he/she no longer needs a sponsor.

If sponsor no longer wants person in country, he/she can revoke it and the sponsoree will lose visa (along with children).

Sponsoree can't get welfare benefits because the sponsor should provide these benefits (and/or private charities).

Military: No benefits for married soldiers should be given. This encourages people to get married for benefits (a reason military has high divorce rate). Saves govt. money. Military members could be allowed to sponsor somebody as a dependent (similar to sponsorship program). Dependents will be limited-maybe 1 non-family member per soldier. No questions asked revocation allowed as well.

The revocations can cause problems but that is the bad thing about depending on somebody. A reason we should try to be self-reliant as much as possible.

Policies would have to be changed but it can be done. Why treat married people better than single people? Is this fair?


And ye, the government is involved since, you know they control who gets to come in and out of the country, or should the government let anyone in who is sponsored. Source on why the military has high divorce rates.
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Postby The Batorys » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:16 am

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:If you intend to go into any field relating to biology, medicine, chemistry, or science, you will need a background in evolutionary biology. That's a huge percentage of the American workforce right there, one that is effectively prohibited to anyone who is denied this education.

I have no idea where you're getting gay history from.


Gay history is required to be taught in California. How does this prepare people for jobs?

My jobs never required me to know about evolution. If it is field specific than it can be taught in college in major related classes.

You are full of shit.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
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The Batorys
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Posts: 5692
Founded: Oct 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Batorys » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:23 am

As for the original OP...

Obviously, given that animals can't consent to contracts, etc., people will not be allowed to marry them. Typical nutjob fear-mongering.

As to incestuous marriage... as others pointed out earlier, banning incestuous marriage doesn't actually ban incestuous sex, or incestuous procreation.

The main argument against such is birth defects, inherited disorders...

However, I'm not sure how I feel about that line of reasoning. My significant other has a chronic condition passed down through genetics. That same condition is present in at least one member of my family. I'm not sure I even want to have kids, but given our genetic background, that whole line of reasoning, that two people should be prohibited from sex due to their future children having genetic conditions... makes me uneasy.
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Khrushchev (with reservations), Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Stalin, Mao, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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AiliailiA
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27722
Founded: Jul 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby AiliailiA » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:06 am

Tsuntion wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
Exactly. It would be like a person marrying a leg of lamb. Or a mushroom. It is even more absurd than marrying a gold bar or a piece of antique furniture, because the dead thing will quickly change its nature.

Unless it was kept in the freezer.

Officer Flatfoot: "Good evening Mr Tess-un-err. Good evening sir. Is your wife at home?"
Tsuntion: "Yes she is. May I ask what this is about?"
Officer Flatfoot: "We have recieved reports about a possible crime committed against your wife, and wish to interview her with a view to--"
Tsuntion: "Sure. Come on in."
Officer Flatfoot: "Thank you, mister er, sir."
Tsuntion: "No problem. She's just through here."
[Officer Flatfoot follows Tsuntion to the cellar]
Officer Flatfoot: "Pardon me sir, but is your wife present here? This seems to be a storage area."
Tsuntion: "She's just over there, in the deep freeze. To keep her from rotting."
Officer Flatfoot: "I never wanted to be a cop. I wanted to be a lumberjack! Well I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK! I sleep all night and I work all day!!"


:lol2: I have a feeling you're even more drunk than when you previously posted a response, you know.


Good guess. I lose my inhibitions long before I lose my typing skills.
My name is voiced AIL-EE-AIL-EE-AH. My time zone: UTC.

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What are the colons meant to convey here?
In my experience Colons usually convey shit

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