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Gay marriages....now what about siblings parents or animals?

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Valkmar
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Postby Valkmar » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:39 pm

Now this is going a little far. I've come to accept gay marriage, but these ideas are just inane and pathetic. It may not be wrong. But it's definitely foolish.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:40 pm

Valkmar wrote:Now this is going a little far. I've come to accept gay marriage, but these ideas are just inane and pathetic. It may not be wrong. But it's definitely foolish.

Isn't marriage the supreme expression of love? Don't you love you family?
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Agymnum
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Postby Agymnum » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:41 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Valkmar wrote:Now this is going a little far. I've come to accept gay marriage, but these ideas are just inane and pathetic. It may not be wrong. But it's definitely foolish.

Isn't marriage the supreme expression of love? Don't you love you family?


Hey, I'm alright with other people participating in incest, but don't go dragging me into it.

I love my sister, but... Just... Not that much.
Last edited by Agymnum on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Freiheit Reich
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:43 pm

Valkmar wrote:Now this is going a little far. I've come to accept gay marriage, but these ideas are just inane and pathetic. It may not be wrong. But it's definitely foolish.


If you can accept gay marriage I believe one day you can accept polygamy and sibling/parent marriage.

Personally, I find heterosexual sibling marriage less weird than gay marriage.
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Techno-Titania
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Postby Techno-Titania » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:43 pm

Gandoor wrote:People marrying animals won't be allowed because animals DO NOT HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.


Yes they do.
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:44 pm

Techno-Titania wrote:
Gandoor wrote:People marrying animals won't be allowed because animals DO NOT HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.


Yes they do.

Such as?
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Agymnum
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Postby Agymnum » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:44 pm

Techno-Titania wrote:
Gandoor wrote:People marrying animals won't be allowed because animals DO NOT HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.


Yes they do.


Really? Can an animal sign a legal contract for business? Can they sign a legal contract for marriage? Can they adopt children?
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Anachronous Rex
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:46 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:You vastly misunderstand the importance of evolutionary biology.


No offense but whether or not you were joking there I am laughing. Most people don't (other than biologist and ecologists) don't often rely on evolution in everyday life and at worst a kid saying I don't believe in evolution will get lightly ridiculed by people I seriously fail to see that as being an enormous harm to the child or to society.

Ask yourself if the sort of person who dismisses evolutionary biology is the sort of person who agrees with the scientific consensus in any field?

The fact of the matter is that creationists oppose science. And I mean all of it.
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:46 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:You vastly misunderstand the importance of evolutionary biology.

No offense but whether or not you were joking there I am laughing. Most people don't (other than biologist and ecologists) don't often rely on evolution in everyday life and at worst a kid saying I don't believe in evolution will get lightly ridiculed by people I seriously fail to see that as being an enormous harm to the child or to society.

Then don't get a vaccine. And don't eat non-artificial food. And don't own a pet. And don't rely on medicines. And forget animal products, they are of no use to you, since you don't need evolution in your life. Forget about antibiotic resistant bacteria, evolution is of no concern to you.

Techno-Titania wrote:
Gandoor wrote:People marrying animals won't be allowed because animals DO NOT HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS.

Yes they do.

In what universe?!?
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Freiheit Reich
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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:
Also yeah I agree in some egregious cases parents are completely incompetent but by then we usually have authorities involved anyway (i.e. drugged up parents etc). Also while you and I might think it's stupid not to teach h kids about evolution should every little decision in a child life be up to the state in this manner? If parents don't want to teach their kids about evolution so be it, it's a far cry from say not teaching basic literacy which I think just about 100% of people would agree is essential to teach in america.

You vastly misunderstand the importance of evolutionary biology.


Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.
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Anachronous Rex
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Isn't marriage the supreme expression of love? Don't you love you family?


Hey, I'm alright with other people participating in incest, but don't go dragging me into it.

I love my sister, but... Just... Not that much.

But wincest is hawt!
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Anachronous Rex
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:49 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:You vastly misunderstand the importance of evolutionary biology.


Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.

If you intend to go into any field relating to biology, medicine, chemistry, or science, you will need a background in evolutionary biology. That's a huge percentage of the American workforce right there, one that is effectively prohibited to anyone who is denied this education.

I have no idea where you're getting gay history from.
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Agymnum
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Postby Agymnum » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:52 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.


What United States of America are you living in?

The primary economy for the middle-class - most of whom get higher education - is in the service sector. These are our engineers and our scientists.

History, evolutionary biology, and higher mathematics are imperative to many service sector jobs and will only become more important as we join the global economy in the future. Without such higher subjects, we will be left behind by the European service sector.
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Llamalandia
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Postby Llamalandia » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:58 pm

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.

If you intend to go into any field relating to biology, medicine, chemistry, or science, you will need a background in evolutionary biology. That's a huge percentage of the American workforce right there, one that is effectively prohibited to anyone who is denied this education.

I have no idea where you're getting gay history from.


Not really, there are in fact conservative christian biology majors who still reject evolutionary theory, professor will look at them quite oddly but quite frankly it doesn't really matter that much it's a small part of the curriculum and most of the time they can just cram whatever they need to pass a test and then just go back to maintaining that people and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. Yeah it sounds stupid but there it is.

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Postby Agymnum » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:00 pm

Llamalandia wrote:Not really, there are in fact conservative christian biology majors who still reject evolutionary theory, professor will look at them quite oddly but quite frankly it doesn't really matter that much it's a small part of the curriculum and most of the time they can just cram whatever they need to pass a test and then just go back to maintaining that people and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. Yeah it sounds stupid but there it is.


They should not be allowed to major in biology. They are holding back their field and either need to straighten their views out or find a new career.

Would we allow those who do not believe in gravity to major in engineering? Would we allow those who do not believe in calculus to major in mathematics? Why not let those who do not believe in Newton's Laws of Motion to major in physics?
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:09 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Valkmar wrote:Now this is going a little far. I've come to accept gay marriage, but these ideas are just inane and pathetic. It may not be wrong. But it's definitely foolish.


If you can accept gay marriage I believe one day you can accept polygamy and sibling/parent marriage.

Personally, I find heterosexual sibling marriage less weird than gay marriage.

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Postby Grenartia » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:12 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Grenartia wrote:And people who have no qualifications in a given field should totally be making decisions that affect it.

:roll:

Let's totally have prayer in schools and have our students taught creationism instead of evolution, amirite? Fuck those evolutionary biologists, fuck geologists, fuck biochemists, fuck scientists in general, those so-called know-it-all "experts". What do they know, compared to the all holy masses, amirite?


Dammit, Indi, this is getting sigged AND AQ'd. :rofl:

Llamalandia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Give us about a decade or two,and we can probably do it.

Also, what about straight couples that can't have children that have chromosomes from both parents? Are those families somehow inferior to couples with children that do have chromosomes from both parents?


To the first part okay , I ll wait then be happy to recognize gay families fully and completely as equals to straight families. ON the second part, yeah in sense they are.


1. Why fucking wait?

2. How so?

Llamalandia wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Let's totally have prayer in schools and have our students taught creationism instead of evolution, amirite? Fuck those evolutionary biologists, fuck geologists, fuck biochemists, fuck scientists in general, those so-called know-it-all "experts". What do they know, compared to the all holy masses, amirite?


No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.


How does the majority know when it should defer to experts if they don't know enough to know that they don't have enough expertise in a given field to dictate policy decisions?

Agymnum wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does. :)


These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.


I think a lot of them are the same people who beat/abuse their kids, because "SPAIR TEH RAWD, SPOYL TEH CHILD". After all, no chance of getting reported for child abuse to the ebil, totalitarian government if your bruised kid stays home all damn day.

Llamalandia wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.


Why are you knocking homeschooling, many people homeschool their kids, because guess what they get a better education that way than in the public school system and while it's anecdotal, some of the best science oympiad teams in my state were home school association so it's not all about religious nutballs who homeschool their kids. :)


Source on that science oympiad thing?

Also, source on that "better education" bit? One instance of a homeschool group winning a science oympiad doesn't automatically make homeschooling the best educational system ever. The fact is, if an idiot parent is homeschooling their kids, chances are, the kids are going to be idiots too.

Freiheit Reich wrote:Easy solution: get the government out of marriage. This means people that get married would still have to get a separate power of attorney because marriage certificates would mean very little as far as the government was concerned but the power of attorney would have legal powers.

The marriage would then be merely a ceremony. Important to peope participating but as meaningless as a Bar Mitzvah or a person's first communion as far as the govt. is concerned. This would also make divorce easier because there would be less legal consequences (for example, alimony could not be required, property would go to name of person that bought it, it would be split if both spouses signed for it). Both spouses would probably start having to sign for purchases to protect themselves in cases of divorce.

If the govt. gets out of marriage than 'yes' we can even have a man marrying his Barbie doll or any strange marriage you can think of.


What about hospital visitation rights? Or medical decision rights? Or funeral/final/real estate decisions? How do those get guaranteed in a manner as simple or cheap as a civil marriage?

The whole "get government out of marriage" spiel REEKS of total ignorance of the complexities of marriage, and also reeks of the childish "if I can't have X MY WAY, then NOBODY can have it at all!!" (followed by a temper tantrum).

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:You vastly misunderstand the importance of evolutionary biology.


Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.


The simple fact is that you need a broad education to prepare you for college, so that you can be prepared for the career you wish to be in (and if you choose to just get a job out of high school, you STILL need a rather broad education).

Agymnum wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:Not really, there are in fact conservative christian biology majors who still reject evolutionary theory, professor will look at them quite oddly but quite frankly it doesn't really matter that much it's a small part of the curriculum and most of the time they can just cram whatever they need to pass a test and then just go back to maintaining that people and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. Yeah it sounds stupid but there it is.


They should not be allowed to major in biology. They are holding back their field and either need to straighten their views out or find a new career.

Would we allow those who do not believe in gravity to major in engineering? Would we allow those who do not believe in calculus to major in mathematics? Why not let those who do not believe in Newton's Laws of Motion to major in physics?


As somebody who wants to double major in Aerospace Engineering and Astrophysics, I deny EVERYTHING Newton came up with.

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Postby Death Metal » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:15 pm

Agymnum wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.


What United States of America are you living in?


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Postby Freiheit Reich » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:15 pm

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Freiheit Reich wrote:
Most people don't need to be taught evolution for their day to day lives after school. School's job is to prepare you for work after school. Learning about gay history or evolution does little to prepare people for the real world. Parents can prioritize subjects but homeschooling. More focus on practical skills and education. Homeschooling is a good option.

If you intend to go into any field relating to biology, medicine, chemistry, or science, you will need a background in evolutionary biology. That's a huge percentage of the American workforce right there, one that is effectively prohibited to anyone who is denied this education.

I have no idea where you're getting gay history from.


Gay history is required to be taught in California. How does this prepare people for jobs?

My jobs never required me to know about evolution. If it is field specific than it can be taught in college in major related classes.
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:15 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Let's totally have prayer in schools and have our students taught creationism instead of evolution, amirite? Fuck those evolutionary biologists, fuck geologists, fuck biochemists, fuck scientists in general, those so-called know-it-all "experts". What do they know, compared to the all holy masses, amirite?

Dammit, Indi, this is getting sigged AND AQ'd. :rofl:

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Postby Anachronous Rex » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:15 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:If you intend to go into any field relating to biology, medicine, chemistry, or science, you will need a background in evolutionary biology. That's a huge percentage of the American workforce right there, one that is effectively prohibited to anyone who is denied this education.

I have no idea where you're getting gay history from.


Not really, there are in fact conservative christian biology majors who still reject evolutionary theory, professor will look at them quite oddly but quite frankly it doesn't really matter that much it's a small part of the curriculum and most of the time they can just cram whatever they need to pass a test and then just go back to maintaining that people and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. Yeah it sounds stupid but there it is.

Well these people are clearly morons who don't deserve a degree.

Also, I'm not entirely sure what the hell you are talking about. One moment we're in homeschool, the next we're in college? One moment we're they're not getting taught about evolutionary biology, the next they are?
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Postby Death Metal » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:17 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Techno-Titania wrote:Yes they do.

In what universe?!?


There are animal cruelty laws, you know.
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Postby Grenartia » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:18 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:If you intend to go into any field relating to biology, medicine, chemistry, or science, you will need a background in evolutionary biology. That's a huge percentage of the American workforce right there, one that is effectively prohibited to anyone who is denied this education.

I have no idea where you're getting gay history from.


Gay history is required to be taught in California. How does this prepare people for jobs?

My jobs never required me to know about evolution. If it is field specific than it can be taught in college in major related classes.


Source, it is required, now.

Also, by that logic, we shouldn't start teaching basic algebra until college. :roll:
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:18 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:In what universe?!?

There are animal cruelty laws, you know.

Yeah, but last I checked animals don't have the right to sign contracts. Or vote.

Egads, can you imagine animals voting?
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:19 pm

Freiheit Reich wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:If you intend to go into any field relating to biology, medicine, chemistry, or science, you will need a background in evolutionary biology. That's a huge percentage of the American workforce right there, one that is effectively prohibited to anyone who is denied this education.

I have no idea where you're getting gay history from.


Gay history is required to be taught in California. How does this prepare people for jobs?

My jobs never required me to know about evolution. If it is field specific than it can be taught in college in major related classes.

Plenty of jobs don't require Algebra either. Or Calc. Or a Foreign Language. Or Physical Education. Or Chemistry. Or Biology. Or Science at all. Or Woodshop. Or Home Ed. Or literature.

So what exactly should we teach in Highschool?
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