NationStates

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:12 pm**

Grenartia wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:Yes, but not families in which the children are directly genetically related to both of the two married parents in the Chromosomal sense.

Give us about a decade or two,and we can probably do it.

Also, what about straight couples that can't have children that have chromosomes from both parents? Are those families somehow inferior to couples with children that do have chromosomes from both parents?

To the first part okay , I ll wait then be happy to recognize gay families fully and completely as equals to straight families. ON the second part, yeah in sense they are.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:12 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Well that escalated quickly...

YOU HAVE 1984 POSTS!

OH MY GOD, YES I... oh...

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:12 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Well that escalated quickly...

YOU HAVE 1984 POSTS!

HOLY SHIT ITS TRUE THE NWO ILLUMINATI IS REAL ALEX JONES TOLD ME. FIRST THEIL COME FOR THE GUNS.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:12 pm**

Agymnum wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Well that escalated quickly...

*Sees post count*

I LOVE BIG BROTHER!

DOWN WITH EAST- I mean EURASIA!

*Whimpers quietly in the corner*

Don't hurt me. I-I didn't forget.

*summons Guards*

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:13 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:*summons Guards*

*turns pale*

No... No! NO!

NOT THEM! NOT THE GUARDS! NOT ROOM 101! NO! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO THERE! I WON'T GO THERE! I WON'T!

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:14 pm**

Individuality-ness wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:YOU HAVE 1984 POSTS!

Oh crap! Abandon thread!!!

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:14 pm**

Agymnum wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:*summons Guards*

*turns pale*

No... No! NO!

NOT THEM! NOT THE GUARDS! NOT ROOM 101! NO! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO THERE! I WON'T GO THERE! I WON'T!

Infirmary. And gently, boys.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:15 pm**

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Oh crap! Abandon thread!!!

That snail GIF is awesome. *nod*

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:15 pm**

Individuality-ness wrote:
Grenartia wrote:And people who have no qualifications in a given field should totally be making decisions that affect it.

Let's totally have prayer in schools and have our students taught creationism instead of evolution, amirite? Fuck those evolutionary biologists, fuck geologists, fuck biochemists, fuck scientists in general, those so-called know-it-all "experts". What do they know, compared to the all holy masses, amirite?

No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:16 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
*turns pale*

No... No! NO!

NOT THEM! NOT THE GUARDS! NOT ROOM 101! NO! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO THERE! I WON'T GO THERE! I WON'T!

Infirmary. And gently, boys.

Another one. Jesus. What are we doing here?

No, no not me too!!!!! NOT ME TOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:17 pm**

Individuality-ness wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:

That snail GIF is awesome. *nod*

Indeed. I think I may have to gay marry it.

After all, apparently that's what we liberals are after.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:17 pm**

Llamalandia wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Let's totally have prayer in schools and have our students taught creationism instead of evolution, amirite? Fuck those evolutionary biologists, fuck geologists, fuck biochemists, fuck scientists in general, those so-called know-it-all "experts". What do they know, compared to the all holy masses, amirite?

No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.

Bye bye secular government and decent science education then.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:18 pm**

Frisivisia wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Infirmary. And gently, boys.

Another one. Jesus. What are we doing here?

No, no not me too!!!!! NOT ME TOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*summons Dr. Jill* Take him away.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:18 pm**

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:That snail GIF is awesome. *nod*

Indeed. I think I may have to gay marry it.

After all, apparently that's what we liberals are after.

Hey, at least there will be no lack of fabulous! I know, the rainbow, but come on, I'm on an iPod, that's hard.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:19 pm**

Llamalandia wrote:No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.

These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:23 pm**

Agymnum wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.

These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.

Why are you knocking homeschooling, many people homeschool their kids, because guess what they get a better education that way than in the public school system and while it's anecdotal, some of the best science oympiad teams in my state were home school association so it's not all about religious nutballs who homeschool their kids.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:24 pm**

Easy solution: get the government out of marriage. This means people that get married would still have to get a separate power of attorney because marriage certificates would mean very little as far as the government was concerned but the power of attorney would have legal powers.

The marriage would then be merely a ceremony. Important to peope participating but as meaningless as a Bar Mitzvah or a person's first communion as far as the govt. is concerned. This would also make divorce easier because there would be less legal consequences (for example, alimony could not be required, property would go to name of person that bought it, it would be split if both spouses signed for it). Both spouses would probably start having to sign for purchases to protect themselves in cases of divorce.

If the govt. gets out of marriage than 'yes' we can even have a man marrying his Barbie doll or any strange marriage you can think of.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:24 pm**

Agymnum wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.

These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.

Llamalandia seems to also conflate authority with expertise. The Soviets, for instance, failed to recognize evolution and genetics for quite some time, even though all the experts told them Lamarckism and Lysenkoism were bunk.

Or I might point to my brother and niece who were hassled for quite some time by social services on account of her being very small for her age. All of the experts said that she had Dwarfism, but the authorities insisted she wasn't being fed properly.

You see the difference?

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:26 pm**

Llamalandia wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.

Why are you knocking homeschooling, many people homeschool their kids, because guess what they get a better education that way than in the public school system and while it's anecdotal, some of the best science oympiad teams in my state were home school association so it's not all about religious nutballs who homeschool their kids.

True, but oftentimes home-schooling occurs because of disagreements with what the school system teaches, not because of disagreements with the quality of the actual schools.

Not all home-schooled people are ignorant, but most ignorant people are either home-schooled or went to shitty public schools. Very few went to genuinely good schools because if they had, they wouldn't be ignorant.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:26 pm**

Agymnum wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:No, but at times, like when it comes to parenting many parents would say "i don't care what experts think I know what's best for my children". The majority decides when to defer to experts and when an individual is best left to use his or her own judgement. This is the problem with centrally planned economies the experts think they can manage high complex systems and maximize efficiency when in reality most modern economies have proven over and over that individuals looking out for their own self interest has created the greatest market function hence the USSR doesn't exist but the USA does.

These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.

Also yeah I agree in some egregious cases parents are completely incompetent but by then we usually have authorities involved anyway (i.e. drugged up parents etc). Also while you and I might think it's stupid not to teach h kids about evolution should every little decision in a child life be up to the state in this manner? If parents don't want to teach their kids about evolution so be it, it's a far cry from say not teaching basic literacy which I think just about 100% of people would agree is essential to teach in america.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:28 pm**

Llamalandia wrote:
Agymnum wrote:
These wouldn't happen to be the same parents who choose to home-school their children because, I mean, we can't have their kids learning all them fancy-schmancy evolution ideas now, can we?

Face it, sometimes parents don't know proper parenting and don't know what's best for their children. Sometimes we have to trust experts who have studied child psychology and have more experience.

Also yeah I agree in some egregious cases parents are completely incompetent but by then we usually have authorities involved anyway (i.e. drugged up parents etc). Also while you and I might think it's stupid not to teach h kids about evolution should every little decision in a child life be up to the state in this manner? If parents don't want to teach their kids about evolution so be it, it's a far cry from say not teaching basic literacy which I think just about 100% of people would agree is essential to teach in america.

You vastly misunderstand the importance of evolutionary biology.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:29 pm**

Anachronous Rex wrote:Llamalandia seems to also conflate authority with expertise. The Soviets, for instance, failed to recognize evolution and genetics for quite some time, even though all the experts told them Lamarckism and Lysenkoism were bunk.

Or I might point to my brother and niece who were hassled for quite some time by social services on account of her being very small for her age. All of the experts said that she had Dwarfism, but the authorities insisted she wasn't being fed properly.

You see the difference?

Yeah, I see your point. Oftentimes people confuse the idea of power with the idea of knowledge. Someone who is knowledgeable tends to be more powerful (higher education usually equates to higher job positions and prospects), but not everyone who is powerful is knowledgeable.

Oftentimes those in power tend to be ignorant because their ignorance allows them to connect with people. I mean, who's more appealing to vote for:

- A mediocre-intelligence individual who you can sit down and have a drink with
or
- A high-brow intellectual who radiates arrogance and elitism

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:30 pm**

Agymnum wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:
Why are you knocking homeschooling, many people homeschool their kids, because guess what they get a better education that way than in the public school system and while it's anecdotal, some of the best science oympiad teams in my state were home school association so it's not all about religious nutballs who homeschool their kids.

True, but oftentimes home-schooling occurs because of disagreements with what the school system teaches, not because of disagreements with the quality of the actual schools.

Not all home-schooled people are ignorant, but most ignorant people are either home-schooled or went to shitty public schools. Very few went to genuinely good schools because if they had, they wouldn't be ignorant.

To be honest Ive actually had real world encounters with both types of home schooling parents but found neither to be especially ignorant. I mean aside from teaching their kids that evolution is "just a theory" and that the world is only a few thousand years old they were otherwise quite reasonable and intelligent people with good paying jobs and college educations I feel your still being a little overly broad and unfair in your characterizations of home-school parents.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:34 pm**

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:
Also yeah I agree in some egregious cases parents are completely incompetent but by then we usually have authorities involved anyway (i.e. drugged up parents etc). Also while you and I might think it's stupid not to teach h kids about evolution should every little decision in a child life be up to the state in this manner? If parents don't want to teach their kids about evolution so be it, it's a far cry from say not teaching basic literacy which I think just about 100% of people would agree is essential to teach in america.

You vastly misunderstand the importance of evolutionary biology.

No offense but whether or not you were joking there I am laughing. Most people don't (other than biologist and ecologists) don't often rely on evolution in everyday life and at worst a kid saying I don't believe in evolution will get lightly ridiculed by people I seriously fail to see that as being an enormous harm to the child or to society.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:37 pm**

Agymnum wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Llamalandia seems to also conflate authority with expertise. The Soviets, for instance, failed to recognize evolution and genetics for quite some time, even though all the experts told them Lamarckism and Lysenkoism were bunk.

Or I might point to my brother and niece who were hassled for quite some time by social services on account of her being very small for her age. All of the experts said that she had Dwarfism, but the authorities insisted she wasn't being fed properly.

You see the difference?

Yeah, I see your point. Oftentimes people confuse the idea of power with the idea of knowledge. Someone who is knowledgeable tends to be more powerful (higher education usually equates to higher job positions and prospects), but not everyone who is powerful is knowledgeable.

Oftentimes those in power tend to be ignorant because their ignorance allows them to connect with people. I mean, who's more appealing to vote for:

- A mediocre-intelligence individual who you can sit down and have a drink with
or
- A high-brow intellectual who radiates arrogance and elitism

Actually I think the whole thrust of the argument has been where authority should be vested, whether in expert opinions or in individual parents. I mean why not have a parenting curriculum as a requirement for all new parents, you know some prescribed manner to raise your kids and respond to situations appropriately, I imagine every parent would like a book that would tell them exactly what to do to raise their children properly. The problem is childrearing is a highly complex and individual endeavor and expert opinion will rarely be fully generalisable to more than a few cases.

NationStates

Gay marriages....now what about siblings parents or animals?