Gay marriages....now what about siblings parents or animals?

[Dakini]

And, I'll say it again, casual sex isn't bad. When you're single/in an open relationship.

Then you should stop using "slut" to mean "cheater" because your words are not expressing this belief since everyone else understands this word differently than you want to use it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It might have been Cosmopolitan. They enjoy doing this kind of shit and then ascribing it to 'experts'.

There's a series written by Ben Reininga published in Nerve where he goes through and looks at the terrible sex advice doled out by magazines. It's funny, but it might skirt the PG 13 thinger so I'm not going to link it.

Goodness, I don't know if you had the laughing delight of reading or not, but if not, check Cosmocking.

[Hathradic States]

I can make a fair guess, given social tendencies.

Then I am sure you've noticed that monogamous relationships aren't the norm as much as you think.

And that when you get involved with someone and are in a relationship, one sits down and discuss these things: how the relationship is going to go -monogamy or polyamory. One does not imply. *nod*

Naturally, with your own relationship, of course.

Now, I could just be getting the teen perspective here, as it is what I've had most experience with. I've had...two relationships that were more than highschool bullshit, looking back.

[The Rich Port]

It's a shit slogan.

Thanx for the feedback but how would suggest I improve it or are you merely incapable of giving constructive criticisms.

For one, marriages, courtship practices, and the ideals of romance have changed numerous times throughout history.

For second, things not changing is something that has never happened and probably never will. Things change all of the time. Change is a part of the human condition.

Change is painful, but we have to bear it because change is inevitable.

[Calixs]

you got that from a movie

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/10/our-inevitable-culture-skipping-ahead-to-the-duke-sex-thesis-television-show

Today’s New York Times contains an exposition of what many less patrician publications are calling the Duke University “Fuck List,” a 2010 graduate’s prolix PowerPoint presentation that details the bedside manner of 13 student-athletes. For 42 pages, paramours are scored on such subjects as attractiveness, size, and talent. On September 30, the document was posted on Jezebel, and it has since been tweeted “with the frenzied speed of the Indianapolis 500,” according to the Times, which gamely stuck to athletic metaphors. The Duke student newspaper published a wry editorial about the scandal, drolly suggesting the dossier’s author, Karen Owen, achieved a type of feminist victory. “Can anybody really argue that gender inequality still exists when a seemingly innocent and fairly generic Duke girl can bring down the reputations of more than a dozen varsity athletes with a simple .pptx file, and the only comeuppance she receives is a rumor of a book deal?” the piece asked. Yesterday morning, the Today show sent a correspondent to Duke’s Durham, North Carolina, campus on a fact-finding mission. “People gossip with their friends all the time about sex … I’ve been told,” a diffident Jeff Rossen reported, “but this is something entirely different.” Sociologically speaking, perhaps, but the Fuck List, a, um, viral sensation, has all the trappings of various successful computer-screen-to-silver-screen ventures, such as $h*! My Dad Says, Shh! Don’t Tell Steve, and Awkward Family Photos. The document has already attracted the attention of literary agents, so it should be only a matter of months until The F$*k List leads into $h*! My Dad Says on CBS’s lineup. It will then once again return to its Internet origins, this time in the form of weekly re-caps.

See told ya it was real.

i swear i have heard something similar from a movie

[Pillea]

Yes, easily. It's easy to be more sexist than I am now, because I'm not being sexist.



Perhaps it's just the culture I grew up in, but boys who end up with lots of girls are lauded and praised, but the opposite is shamed.

No, saying "boys are appleaded for hooking up with everything that breaths" is stereotyping, and sexist to say.

Mayhaps. With my friends, things were different, and that is what affected me.

Actually... it's an observation of societal standards. Saying "men should only be judged by their sexual history/capability" and thusly reducing men to sex objects, would be sexist.

[Hathradic States]

And, I'll say it again, casual sex isn't bad. When you're single/in an open relationship.

Then you should stop using "slut" to mean "cheater" because your words are not expressing this belief since everyone else understands this word differently than you want to use it.

I'll just use "Teufulshure". That way, I have an awesome sounding insult, and it's German.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Then I am sure you've noticed that monogamous relationships aren't the norm as much as you think.

And that when you get involved with someone and are in a relationship, one sits down and discuss these things: how the relationship is going to go -monogamy or polyamory. One does not imply. *nod*

Naturally, with your own relationship, of course.

Now, I could just be getting the teen perspective here, as it is what I've had most experience with. I've had...two relationships that were more than highschool bullshit, looking back.

Then allow me to ask you this: if your perspective in relationships is that limited (I'm sorry if this sounds bad but it's the truth), why are you throwing around 'shaming others' for sexual conduct so casually? Why were you using the term 'slut' in such a way? What exactly do you TRULY know about relationships, at your age and with such a limited frame of reference (2 high school relationships and the current one)?

I am curious.

[Individuality-ness]

The word slut shames sexually OVERACTIVE women, not simply sexually active ones.

No, it shames all sexually active women in general, and puts an impossible standard on women to conform to a certain gender role.

I'm a free person, and I will use such words if a please.

And I will call you out on it every single time.

You seem to be throwing the word Patriarchy around quite a bit; its shames men who happen to have some level of power. If you hold to your own standards, please cease using it.

Patriarchy is part of feminist theory, also men DO happen to have some level of power, and it's one of oppression of both men AND women. The fact that you don't see it is cisgender heterosexual male privilege.

I do live on planet earth; just not... I can't think of a neutral term to put here, since there is none. So I'll use neo-feminist la-la land

Oh, here we go, the feminist strawman.

where it is never the woman's fault,

I wasn't arguing that; I've said multiple times that women who cheat should be called "cheaters", not "sluts".

men have some kind of evil hive-mind,

You totally missed the point of feminism my dear.

and are all out to get you,

You're living in cisgendered heterosexual male privilege, my dear. You don't have to worry about being street harassment. You don't have to wonder if your representatives are going to take away the rights to your own reproductive system. You don't have to worry about whether someone's going to take sexual advantage of you when you go outside at night. I could go on.

all the ills of the world can be blamed on the back of "Patriarchy"

Because gender roles and rape culture IS part of patriarchy.

(You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means).

I'm pretty sure YOU don't know what it means.

Victim blaming does happen to a certain extent... to ALL victims, regardless of gender.

But a large amount of it is directed at women in regards to rape.

In domestic assault cases, the man is blamed for being a "pussy" and not standing up for himself.

Which is part of victim blaming and patriarchy. Men hurt themselves in patriarchy too.

In fraud cases, the victim is blamed for not being smarter. In certain rare cases, the victim even receives the majority of the blame.

Rare? So you're saying that victim blaming rape victims almost NEVER happens?

(Say, a small child runs out onto the street in front of car... in that case the driver receives most of blame even if the accident wasn't their fault.) It is not, however, sexually-divided as you claim it to be.

Yes it is.

I never said anybody deserves to be raped;

You said "unless she was a prostitute" -- implication that prostitutes don't get raped.

I'm saying if she bloody consents (And you can not rape somebody who consents), then she shares the moral blame for her activity if society provides one.

In other words, no blame at all, because a person's sex life is none of your business.

Again, I've yet to see any popular media outlet sneer at rape victims,

You never saw CNN's coverage of Struvenville, in which they lamented the fact that the rapist's lives were ruined because they were accused of rape and convicted and how the worst thing that happens now is that they'll have to register as sex offenders? You never noticed how they implied that it was only circumstances that landed them in hot water? How they blamed social media for making it known to the world and not the rapists for choosing to rape someone?

though they will readily do so towards the rapist (With good reason).

See above.

Only a few, somewhat more vocal then the norm, people suggest otherwise.

You're shitting me. Go read one of the rape threads.

I've heard of rape culture... but to be blunt, I'd assert its a myth.

It's very real all right. Some examples of rape culture.

There is not some quiet acceptance of rape; rapists go to jail for a LONG time, are heavily frowned upon by society, ect.

Only 3% of rapists actually see the bars of a prison cell. People think it's okay to make rape jokes all the time. There are pages on Facebook advocating rape. There are people who say "if the victim was wearing <clothes>, drinking, partying, etc, victim deserved what they got the little slut!". Yale students yelled "no means yes and yes means anal". Etc.

This is rape culture!

Even if 1/4 women are raped (Which is assuming the absurd statistic that only 1/10th of rapes are reported...

It's not absurd at all; remember victim blaming and slut shaming? It hits in hard force right now.

and all of those were actually rape...

False rape accusations make up about 2-3% of reports. It's not a big enough statistic.

and in that case I question why the raped women, in a society where rape is heavily punished crime and you can easily have the criminals DNA, leading to a known identity, don't report it.),

Because slut shaming and victim blaming and rape culture mayhaps?

that still means, at the VERY MOST, only 1/4 of men are rapists;

No it doesn't, that's flawed math and you should be ashamed of yourself.

obviously not true, since rape is a common serial crime.

Which totally destroys your assertion that "only 1/4 of men are rapists" idea, hmm?

That's hardly a majority, and so I fail to see why I should be stained with that brush simply because I happen to share a specific chromosome with the guy who did it.

Men AND women can be rapists. Thinking that only men can rape and only women can be raped is rape culture.

Nevertheless, focus ought to be on teaching people NOT to rape.

That's the very definition of sexism.

Also rape culture. Except no one's arguing that, so that's a strawman.

Now, if you want to judge men more for being sexually active, then go right ahead. You have the right to do so. Nothing is stopping you.

Except that I know that a person's sex life is none of my business and that shaming anyone for having sex is wrong.

I'm not saying he had the best choice in words. I'm not saying it couldn't have possibly been tailored more specifically to political correctness.

Political correctness? How about not going out of your way to say it at all?

However, I find the speed at which everybody leaped to the conclusion "Women Hater" merely because he used a not-all-that-uncommon term to be failure witch-hunty.

Because he's a misogynist and he deserves to be called out on it.

Now, I have to go to bed, as it is 1:30 in the morning and I have places to be in the morning. I suggest this thread return to its regularly scheduled programming.

Good night.

[Dakini]

Then you should stop using "slut" to mean "cheater" because your words are not expressing this belief since everyone else understands this word differently than you want to use it.

I'll just use "Teufulshure". That way, I have an awesome sounding insult, and it's German.

Sure, whatever floats your boat... except words that have totally different meanings because you'll just confuse everyone.

[Llamalandia]

You slogan is a little longer than I was going for with mine. Also I said exceptions should be made for abuse in the relationship your simply going way too far back in time. plus there is absolutely no controversy over ownership of persons in the developed world, there is argument around the nature of marriage and divorce.

How far back in time do you think I'm going? The answer may surprise you.

Besides, what you are advocating is a change to marriage as well. The classical Christian definition is "a means by which two people, incapable of abstinence, satisfy each others sexual needs without sin." You read your Bible, that's what it will say... at least in the New Testament (so there's a change right there.)

You're not advocating that though, nor are you advocating a return to the status quo of any time period, because what you propose makes marriage so undesirable, that almost no one would want to participate in one. Meaning that the vast majority of couples would be unmarried, and marriage would apply only to a small minority of, presumably, masochists and fools.

Ok fair enough there will simply be less married people what's so wrong with that, let those few who actually want to love and honor each other and the tradition and sanctimony of marriage do so, and let everyone else remain in committed but non-marital long term relationships which they are free to end or modify at any time without the consent of the state or govt or any religion. Seems like everybody wins that way.

[Dakini]

There's a series written by Ben Reininga published in Nerve where he goes through and looks at the terrible sex advice doled out by magazines. It's funny, but it might skirt the PG 13 thinger so I'm not going to link it.

Goodness, I don't know if you had the laughing delight of reading or not, but if not, check Cosmocking.

I will definitely check that out.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Goodness, I don't know if you had the laughing delight of reading or not, but if not, check Cosmocking.

I will definitely check that out.

I'm almost certain you'll laugh your bum off with that one.

[Hathradic States]

I'll just use "Teufulshure". That way, I have an awesome sounding insult, and it's German.

Sure, whatever floats your boat... except words that have totally different meanings because you'll just confuse everyone.

Will do. Though, I admit, confusing people is my third favourite pastime.

[Dakini]

How far back in time do you think I'm going? The answer may surprise you.

Besides, what you are advocating is a change to marriage as well. The classical Christian definition is "a means by which two people, incapable of abstinence, satisfy each others sexual needs without sin." You read your Bible, that's what it will say... at least in the New Testament (so there's a change right there.)

You're not advocating that though, nor are you advocating a return to the status quo of any time period, because what you propose makes marriage so undesirable, that almost no one would want to participate in one. Meaning that the vast majority of couples would be unmarried, and marriage would apply only to a small minority of, presumably, masochists and fools.

Ok fair enough there will simply be less married people what's so wrong with that, let those few who actually want to love and honor each other and the tradition and sanctimony of marriage do so, and let everyone else remain in committed but non-marital long term relationships which they are free to end or modify at any time without the consent of the state or govt or any religion. Seems like everybody wins that way.

Pft. I like my relationship government-sanctioned. It means that I can apply for a spousal visa if I can't immediately find a job somewhere my partner wants to move.

[Dakini]

Sure, whatever floats your boat... except words that have totally different meanings because you'll just confuse everyone.

Will do. Though, I admit, confusing people is my third favourite pastime.

Is fending off arguments from people who think you disagree with them when you really don't another?

[Llamalandia]

The word slut shames sexually OVERACTIVE women, not simply sexually active ones.

No, it shames all sexually active women in general, and puts an impossible standard on women to conform to a certain gender role.

I'm a free person, and I will use such words if a please.

And I will call you out on it every single time.

You seem to be throwing the word Patriarchy around quite a bit; its shames men who happen to have some level of power. If you hold to your own standards, please cease using it.

Patriarchy is part of feminist theory, also men DO happen to have some level of power, and it's one of oppression of both men AND women. The fact that you don't see it is cisgender heterosexual male privilege.

I do live on planet earth; just not... I can't think of a neutral term to put here, since there is none. So I'll use neo-feminist la-la land

Oh, here we go, the feminist strawman.

where it is never the woman's fault,

I wasn't arguing that; I've said multiple times that women who cheat should be called "cheaters", not "sluts".

men have some kind of evil hive-mind,

You totally missed the point of feminism my dear.

and are all out to get you,

You're living in cisgendered heterosexual male privilege, my dear. You don't have to worry about being street harassment. You don't have to wonder if your representatives are going to take away the rights to your own reproductive system. You don't have to worry about whether someone's going to take sexual advantage of you when you go outside at night. I could go on.

all the ills of the world can be blamed on the back of "Patriarchy"

Because gender roles and rape culture IS part of patriarchy.

(You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means).

I'm pretty sure YOU don't know what it means.

Victim blaming does happen to a certain extent... to ALL victims, regardless of gender.

But a large amount of it is directed at women in regards to rape.

In domestic assault cases, the man is blamed for being a "pussy" and not standing up for himself.

Which is part of victim blaming and patriarchy. Men hurt themselves in patriarchy too.

In fraud cases, the victim is blamed for not being smarter. In certain rare cases, the victim even receives the majority of the blame.

Rare? So you're saying that victim blaming rape victims almost NEVER happens?

(Say, a small child runs out onto the street in front of car... in that case the driver receives most of blame even if the accident wasn't their fault.) It is not, however, sexually-divided as you claim it to be.

Yes it is.

I never said anybody deserves to be raped;

You said "unless she was a prostitute" -- implication that prostitutes don't get raped.

I'm saying if she bloody consents (And you can not rape somebody who consents), then she shares the moral blame for her activity if society provides one.

In other words, no blame at all, because a person's sex life is none of your business.

Again, I've yet to see any popular media outlet sneer at rape victims,

You never saw CNN's coverage of Struvenville, in which they lamented the fact that the rapist's lives were ruined because they were accused of rape and convicted and how the worst thing that happens now is that they'll have to register as sex offenders? You never noticed how they implied that it was only circumstances that landed them in hot water? How they blamed social media for making it known to the world and not the rapists for choosing to rape someone?

though they will readily do so towards the rapist (With good reason).

See above.

Only a few, somewhat more vocal then the norm, people suggest otherwise.

You're shitting me. Go read one of the rape threads.

I've heard of rape culture... but to be blunt, I'd assert its a myth.

It's very real all right. Some examples of rape culture.

There is not some quiet acceptance of rape; rapists go to jail for a LONG time, are heavily frowned upon by society, ect.

Only 3% of rapists actually see the bars of a prison cell. People think it's okay to make rape jokes all the time. There are pages on Facebook advocating rape. There are people who say "if the victim was wearing <clothes>, drinking, partying, etc, victim deserved what they got the little slut!". Yale students yelled "no means yes and yes means anal". Etc.

This is rape culture!

Even if 1/4 women are raped (Which is assuming the absurd statistic that only 1/10th of rapes are reported...

It's not absurd at all; remember victim blaming and slut shaming? It hits in hard force right now.

and all of those were actually rape...

False rape accusations make up about 2-3% of reports. It's not a big enough statistic.

and in that case I question why the raped women, in a society where rape is heavily punished crime and you can easily have the criminals DNA, leading to a known identity, don't report it.),

Because slut shaming and victim blaming and rape culture mayhaps?

that still means, at the VERY MOST, only 1/4 of men are rapists;

No it doesn't, that's flawed math and you should be ashamed of yourself.

obviously not true, since rape is a common serial crime.

Which totally destroys your assertion that "only 1/4 of men are rapists" idea, hmm?

That's hardly a majority, and so I fail to see why I should be stained with that brush simply because I happen to share a specific chromosome with the guy who did it.

Men AND women can be rapists. Thinking that only men can rape and only women can be raped is rape culture.

Nevertheless, focus ought to be on teaching people NOT to rape.

That's the very definition of sexism.

Also rape culture. Except no one's arguing that, so that's a strawman.

Now, if you want to judge men more for being sexually active, then go right ahead. You have the right to do so. Nothing is stopping you.

Except that I know that a person's sex life is none of my business and that shaming anyone for having sex is wrong.

I'm not saying he had the best choice in words. I'm not saying it couldn't have possibly been tailored more specifically to political correctness.

Political correctness? How about not going out of your way to say it at all?

However, I find the speed at which everybody leaped to the conclusion "Women Hater" merely because he used a not-all-that-uncommon term to be failure witch-hunty.

Because he's a misogynist and he deserves to be called out on it.

Now, I have to go to bed, as it is 1:30 in the morning and I have places to be in the morning. I suggest this thread return to its regularly scheduled programming.

Good night.

No I'm not a misogynist. But your clearly painting a pretty clear picture of yourself as a misandryst and I say it again a FEMINAZI, a feminist who blames all everything bad in the world on men and believes that every little statement that isn't 110% politically correct must have been calculated merely to offend her sensibilities (or more broadly all women on Earth plus men can be FEMINAZIs as well ) of what is appropriate in civil and intellectual discourse.

Also no one should need to be taught how not to rape. It's not a really hard thing to understand, ask for consent, if no then stop, if yes then your good to go. Not really something that needs several lectures for people to understand. Rapists will rape and can't teach them not to you can only lock them (or execute them until recently).

[Ovisterra]

you got that from a movie

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2010/10/our-inevitable-culture-skipping-ahead-to-the-duke-sex-thesis-television-show

Today’s New York Times contains an exposition of what many less patrician publications are calling the Duke University “Fuck List,” a 2010 graduate’s prolix PowerPoint presentation that details the bedside manner of 13 student-athletes. For 42 pages, paramours are scored on such subjects as attractiveness, size, and talent. On September 30, the document was posted on Jezebel, and it has since been tweeted “with the frenzied speed of the Indianapolis 500,” according to the Times, which gamely stuck to athletic metaphors. The Duke student newspaper published a wry editorial about the scandal, drolly suggesting the dossier’s author, Karen Owen, achieved a type of feminist victory. “Can anybody really argue that gender inequality still exists when a seemingly innocent and fairly generic Duke girl can bring down the reputations of more than a dozen varsity athletes with a simple .pptx file, and the only comeuppance she receives is a rumor of a book deal?” the piece asked. Yesterday morning, the Today show sent a correspondent to Duke’s Durham, North Carolina, campus on a fact-finding mission. “People gossip with their friends all the time about sex … I’ve been told,” a diffident Jeff Rossen reported, “but this is something entirely different.” Sociologically speaking, perhaps, but the Fuck List, a, um, viral sensation, has all the trappings of various successful computer-screen-to-silver-screen ventures, such as $h*! My Dad Says, Shh! Don’t Tell Steve, and Awkward Family Photos. The document has already attracted the attention of literary agents, so it should be only a matter of months until The F$*k List leads into $h*! My Dad Says on CBS’s lineup. It will then once again return to its Internet origins, this time in the form of weekly re-caps.

See told ya it was real.

So one person did something dumb. So?

Obviously the feminazi conspiracy has reached new heights.

Yes, easily. It's easy to be more sexist than I am now, because I'm not being sexist.



Perhaps it's just the culture I grew up in, but boys who end up with lots of girls are lauded and praised, but the opposite is shamed.

No, saying "boys are appleaded for hooking up with everything that breaths" is stereotyping, and sexist to say.

It's not stereotyping, it's true where I come from.

I assure you I'm not being sexist against myself.

[Dakini]

I will definitely check that out.

I'm almost certain you'll laugh your bum off with that one.

Added it to my bookmarks because I shouldn't go through it tonight.

[Individuality-ness]

There's a series written by Ben Reininga published in Nerve where he goes through and looks at the terrible sex advice doled out by magazines. It's funny, but it might skirt the PG 13 thinger so I'm not going to link it.

Goodness, I don't know if you had the laughing delight of reading or not, but if not, check Cosmocking.

Cosmocking is absolutely brilliant and I need to check and see if the May 2013 Cosmock is up yet.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm almost certain you'll laugh your bum off with that one.

Added it to my bookmarks because I shouldn't go through it tonight.

Oh, that's for sure. It's addicting to read through it.

[Hathradic States]

Naturally, with your own relationship, of course.

Now, I could just be getting the teen perspective here, as it is what I've had most experience with. I've had...two relationships that were more than highschool bullshit, looking back.

Then allow me to ask you this: if your perspective in relationships is that limited (I'm sorry if this sounds bad but it's the truth), why are you throwing around 'shaming others' for sexual conduct so casually? Why were you using the term 'slut' in such a way? What exactly do you TRULY know about relationships, at your age and with such a limited frame of reference (2 high school relationships and the current one)?

I am curious.

First, a correction, 2 serious relationships, including the current one, and a dozen or so highschool relationships. I apologize if my wording is off.

Honestly? Probably left over bitterness from past experiences. It's been about a year, but somedays I still feel pain from it. It was hell, and I think if you put someone through that helll, you deserve shame.

[Hathradic States]

It's not stereotyping, it's true where I come from.

I assure you I'm not being sexist against myself.

It's not hard...well, maybe in a serious conversation it is.

[Dakini]

No I'm not a misogynist. But your clearly painting a pretty clear picture of yourself as a misandryst and I say it again a FEMINAZI, a feminist who blames all everything bad in the world on men and believes that every little statement that isn't 110% politically correct must have been calculated merely to offend her sensibilities (or more broadly all women on Earth plus men can be FEMINAZIs as well ) of what is appropriate in civil and intellectual discourse.

The fact that you're not only failing to address any specific points, but using the words "misandryst" and "feminazi" (in addition to your earlier issues) suggests that you are definitely a misogynist.

[Ovisterra]

It's not stereotyping, it's true where I come from.

I assure you I'm not being sexist against myself.

It's not hard...well, maybe in a serious conversation it is.

dis r srs bsns