Gay marriages....now what about siblings parents or animals?

[Individuality-ness]

And obviously when FDR called for Social Security, the world collapsed and all hell came loose.

Actually, the fact that it didn't just proves the power of prayer in holding back satan and his minions.

So is the power of prayer getting stronger for each individual person every time someone converts to atheism?

[Person012345]

No, I'm being serious.

Who says Gay Marriage is Immoral?

Jebus

[Frisivisia]

If this is indeed your true opinion on things, please stay away from children. I have a very broad sense of people's rights, which include allowing them to pretty much do whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't harm others. If you find that repulsive, you are a sociopath and a danger to others.

Let me step back from my temper zone for a minute. You are also allowed to think whatever you want, but there are also psychiatric hospitals for that shit. Just saying.

Read some of de Sade's works. We need to have a society free from morality & conscience.

Murder is illegal because it's immoral. Should we legalize murder because fuck morality?

[Menassa]

Who says Gay Marriage is Immoral?

Jebus

Preach it.

[Agymnum]

No, I'm being serious.

Who says Gay Marriage is Immoral?

You? Since, you know, you're Jewish?

Or does that only apply to the act of homosexuality?

[Revolutionary Socialists]

Read some of de Sade's works. We need to have a society free from morality & conscience.

Why are you supporting a aristocrat of all things? It is because he was kinky enough for you to like?

He despised the rest of the nobility & became a revolutionary.

[Valcouria]

I prefer to argue from the Christian angle, seeing as (whether some wish to agree or not) it comprises a large majority of the world's population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Demographics
Not to mention Judaism itself outlawed polygamy around A.D. 1000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Judaism

Very well then, from a Christian Standpoint you should have no problem with Homosexuality... also, Judaism didn't outlaw polygamy because it was morally detestable.

'Hate the sin, not the sinner.'
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
And as for Judaism, polygamy was only tolerated since 'Multiple marriages were considered a realistic alternative in the case of famine, widowhood, or female infertility.' An event brought on by a dire circumstance. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Judaism). Little was said about its morality, and there were many Jews that condemned it at the time as well (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Shulchan_Aruch/Even_ha-Ezer/1)

[Menassa]

Who says Gay Marriage is Immoral?

You? Since, you know, you're Jewish?

Or does that only apply to the act of homosexuality?

Well... that depends if you see all transgression as immoral... in which Homosexuality would be immorality... as would be wearing mixed clothing... which lowers the bar of immorality just a little.

[Revolutionary Socialists]

Read some of de Sade's works. We need to have a society free from morality & conscience.

Murder is illegal because it's immoral. Should we legalize murder because fuck morality?

We should abolish all laws.

[Neutraligon]

Very well then, from a Christian Standpoint you should have no problem with Homosexuality... also, Judaism didn't outlaw polygamy because it was morally detestable.

'Hate the sin, not the sinner.'
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
And as for Judaism, polygamy was only tolerated since 'Multiple marriages were considered a realistic alternative in the case of famine, widowhood, or female infertility.' An event brought on by a dire circumstance. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Judaism). Little was said about its morality, and there were many Jews that condemned it at the time as well (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Shulchan_Aruch/Even_ha-Ezer/1)

...You're telling this to Menassa...

[Agymnum]

'Hate the sin, not the sinner.'
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
And as for Judaism, polygamy was only tolerated since 'Multiple marriages were considered a realistic alternative in the case of famine, widowhood, or female infertility.' An event brought on by a dire circumstance. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Judaism). Little was said about its morality, and there were many Jews that condemned it at the time as well (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Shulchan_Aruch/Even_ha-Ezer/1)

You're arguing with Menassa. The man's a Jewish scholar. It's his job to interpret the Torah.

$1,000 says you lose before the day's over.

[Valcouria]

You should really read the source.
"With around 2.2 billion adherents,[19][20][21] split into 3 main branches of Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox, Christianity is the world's largest religion."

Doesn't matter.

Of course not; in this debauched modern age, when reason is championed over faith, why would it? This is one of the reasons I fear for the survival of humanity.

"You can do very little with faith, but you can do nothing without it"-Samuel Butler.

[Person012345]

Read some of de Sade's works. We need to have a society free from morality & conscience.

Murder is illegal because it's immoral. Should we legalize murder because fuck morality?

Well, there are other good reasons to ilegalize murder beyond morality.

[Neutraligon]

If this is indeed your true opinion on things, please stay away from children. I have a very broad sense of people's rights, which include allowing them to pretty much do whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't harm others. If you find that repulsive, you are a sociopath and a danger to others.

Let me step back from my temper zone for a minute. You are also allowed to think whatever you want, but there are also psychiatric hospitals for that shit. Just saying.

Read some of de Sade's works. We need to have a society free from morality & conscience.

No thanks, I would rather not live in a sociopathic society.

[Menassa]

Very well then, from a Christian Standpoint you should have no problem with Homosexuality... also, Judaism didn't outlaw polygamy because it was morally detestable.

'Hate the sin, not the sinner.'
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
And as for Judaism, polygamy was only tolerated since 'Multiple marriages were considered a realistic alternative in the case of famine, widowhood, or female infertility.' An event brought on by a dire circumstance. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Judaism). Little was said about its morality, and there were many Jews that condemned it at the time as well (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Shulchan_Aruch/Even_ha-Ezer/1)

Clearly... as a Christian... you should not be keeping The Law (see Galatians 3:24) and resting only in Jesus (Mark 16:16, John 3:16).

Also... Polygamy is not morally detestable no was it outlawed for any reason... we believe... at least in Judaism... if our prophets and leaders do something that is Morally detestable they are taken to task for it.

Abraham and David were never taken to task for Polygamy.
Gideon was never taken to task for polygamy.

knowyourbible.

[Individuality-ness]

Doesn't matter.

Of course not; in this debauched modern age, when reason is championed over faith, why would it? This is one of the reasons I fear for the survival of humanity.

"You can do very little with faith, but you can do nothing without it"-Samuel Butler.

Oh, I don't know, because reason is how we're not living in shitty hellholes in the first place?

Faith doesn't do jack shit.

[Agymnum]

Doesn't matter.

Of course not; in this debauched modern age, when reason is championed over faith, why would it? This is one of the reasons I fear for the survival of humanity.

"You can do very little with faith, but you can do nothing without it"-Samuel Butler.

"Religion, without science, is blind. Science, without religion, is unstoppable."

See, I can make up quotes, too. Nyah nyah!

[Neutraligon]

'Hate the sin, not the sinner.'
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
And as for Judaism, polygamy was only tolerated since 'Multiple marriages were considered a realistic alternative in the case of famine, widowhood, or female infertility.' An event brought on by a dire circumstance. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Judaism). Little was said about its morality, and there were many Jews that condemned it at the time as well (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Shulchan_Aruch/Even_ha-Ezer/1)

Clearly... as a Christian... you should not be keeping The Law (see Galatians 3:24) and resting only in Jesus (Mark 16:16, John 3:16).

Also... Polygamy is not morally detestable no was it outlawed for any reason... we believe... at least in Judaism... if our prophets and leaders do something that is Morally detestable they are taken to task for it.

Abraham and David were never taken to task for Polygamy.
Gideon was never taken to task for polygamy.

knowyourbible.

Wasn't Abraham practically required to be polygamous, since Sarah had not managed to have children(for a long time)?

[Person012345]

'Hate the sin, not the sinner.'
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
And as for Judaism, polygamy was only tolerated since 'Multiple marriages were considered a realistic alternative in the case of famine, widowhood, or female infertility.' An event brought on by a dire circumstance. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Judaism). Little was said about its morality, and there were many Jews that condemned it at the time as well (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Shulchan_Aruch/Even_ha-Ezer/1)

Clearly... as a Christian... you should not be keeping The Law (see Galatians 3:24) and resting only in Jesus (Mark 16:16, John 3:16).

Also... Polygamy is not morally detestable no was it outlawed for any reason... we believe... at least in Judaism... if our prophets and leaders do something that is Morally detestable they are taken to task for it.

Abraham and David were never taken to task for Polygamy.
Gideon was never taken to task for polygamy.

knowyourbible.

Plus of course Lot banged both his daughters and was still called a "just a righteous man" by god.

[Menassa]

Clearly... as a Christian... you should not be keeping The Law (see Galatians 3:24) and resting only in Jesus (Mark 16:16, John 3:16).

Also... Polygamy is not morally detestable no was it outlawed for any reason... we believe... at least in Judaism... if our prophets and leaders do something that is Morally detestable they are taken to task for it.

Abraham and David were never taken to task for Polygamy.
Gideon was never taken to task for polygamy.

knowyourbible.

Wasn't Abraham practically required to be polygamous, since Sarah had not managed to have children(for a long time)?

Indubitabely... though that was a 'kindness' by Sarah.

[Frisivisia]

Doesn't matter.

Of course not; in this debauched modern age, when reason is championed over faith, why would it? This is one of the reasons I fear for the survival of humanity.

"You can do very little with faith, but you can do nothing without it"-Samuel Butler.

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire

Reason is superior to faith. Reason makes sense, faith does not.

[Grenartia]

What's wrong with gay marriage and polygamy, so long as all involved are capable of giving informed consent?

Also, its not just secular humanists arguing in favor of them. I'm a Christian, and I support them, too.

1. Since I suspect a religiously-toned argument will be met with ridicule and contempt, I will approach it from a biological and psychological viewpoint:

2. First, there is no functioning purpose for gays; as a genetic defect, their ability to marry constitutes a failure to procreate the next generation. 3. One can argue that artificial means are possible, but it still requires a female to give life. 4. Man needs woman, and 5. marriage is the bond that solidifies this natural law; any other variant is a perversion of said law.

6. Second, polygamy disrupts the basic human interaction between one man and one woman; 7. the love (full body shiver) they feel for one another does not compare to the type that polygamy is allegedly based upon...8. not to mention the fact that in polygamy there is the dangerous prospect of jealously between spouses. 9. And, as has been mentioned somewhere before, the legalistic nightmare of polygamy, especially in divorce and wills, constitutes an acceptable rejection of it as a legitimate type of marriage.

10. Lastly, I must go to a religious aspect; we are called upon to resist the carnal urges that can fog our minds. Whether one wishes to admit it or not, humanity is inherently evil; why else do such things as murders, rapes, homosexual behavior (I will explain; don't get a bee in your bonnet), and such behavior exist? 11. Therefore, such urges need to be restrained, since they are a violation of the natural order. 12. Since homosexual behavior is, to me, a lust after a member of the same gender (which, as I said before, will not result in any fruitful endeavors), it needs to be resisted for the benefit of the future society. 13. Same goes for all these alleged ideas regarding legalized incest, polygamy, pederasty, and so on; such things are but lust, and need to be resisted. 14. True love (another body shiver) is found only between one man and one woman, as well as between man and God (or, for non-Christians, another divine being [15. see, I can be multicultural]).

1. Not from me. I'm also capable of defending my position from a Christian perspective.

2. First, it seems you have not heard of the Gay Uncle Theory, which states that homosexuality is actually a BENEFIT to reproductive success, by essentially babysitting children while the parents are off hunting and gathering, while being less likely to have children to take care of themselves.

Secondly, why is procreation so damned important in a world full of over 7 billion people?

Thirdly, what about heterosexual married couples that are infertile, or simply choose not to have children?

3. I fail to see how that discredits artificial assistance.

4. Prove it. Using scientific, unbiased sources.

5. I'd argue that marriage is what binds people who are in love. And that is the foundation of our society. By supporting the prohibition a group of people who legitimately love each other, and who's love harms nobody, from marrying, one is arguably supporting the breakdown of society.

6. Prove it. I hold you to the same standards as #4.

7. Again, proof needed. Same standards as above.

8. You know, just because YOU might get jealous doesn't necessarily mean that everybody else will, either. Also, if one is the jealous type, one shouldn't be getting in a polyamorous relationship/marriage anyways.

9. That is really the only legitimate argument against polygamy that I can think of. However, once those complications are solved (and I am hopeful that they can be), there is no legitimate reason to prohibit it.

10. Of course humanity is evil. After all, wasn't it Madison who logically reasoned: "If men were angels, there would be no need for government"? I fail to see how homosexuality can be reasonably classified alongside murder, rape, and other evil, however.

11. Natural order? You do realize that appeal to nature is a logical fallacy, right? Not to mention the irony in your using something unnatural (a computer), to condemn things that supposedly go against the natural order.

12. I've already debunked your "no fruitful endeavors" claim. Also, you don't seem to be able to believe that homosexual relationships can be anything other than lust. I can tell you, from personal observation, that is the farthest thing from the truth.

13. I agree with you on everything except homosexuality and polygamy, so there's no need to go off on some tangent unrelated to the discussion.

14. Really? How can you be so sure?

15. Nobody said you couldn't.

[Menassa]

Clearly... as a Christian... you should not be keeping The Law (see Galatians 3:24) and resting only in Jesus (Mark 16:16, John 3:16).

Also... Polygamy is not morally detestable no was it outlawed for any reason... we believe... at least in Judaism... if our prophets and leaders do something that is Morally detestable they are taken to task for it.

Abraham and David were never taken to task for Polygamy.
Gideon was never taken to task for polygamy.

knowyourbible.

Plus of course Lot banged both his daughters and was still called a "just a righteous man" by god.

A: They banged him... I mean they basically drugged him and Raped him.
B: It was in their understanding that God had destroyed the world again (which remember in the Bible... was not such a far fetched claim. )

[Grainne Ni Malley]

If this is indeed your true opinion on things, please stay away from children. I have a very broad sense of people's rights, which include allowing them to pretty much do whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't harm others. If you find that repulsive, you are a sociopath and a danger to others.

Let me step back from my temper zone for a minute. You are also allowed to think whatever you want, but there are also psychiatric hospitals for that shit. Just saying.

Read some of de Sade's works. We need to have a society free from morality & conscience.

Disagree. A society free from morality and conscience is not a society. We have worked hard throughout history to form concepts that, as a whole, strengthen our society and thus improve our lives overall as individuals.

Your concept seems to be one of, "Let's run amok and fuck the rest,", but the consequences of such a mentality are far reaching. Essentially the collapse of humanity as I see it. Think about how we developed over time. There was a reason humans began banding together and forming societies. A lot of it was based on the moral concept of looking out for one another. Otherwise, you might have been eaten by dinner.

[Frisivisia]

Murder is illegal because it's immoral. Should we legalize murder because fuck morality?

Well, there are other good reasons to ilegalize murder beyond morality.

Murder takes away people's rights and safety. Therefore, it is immoral. Morality is the basis of all law.