God created the world in 7 days? or Big Bang?

[Neutraligon]

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slaanesh?

You're not convincing people using that argument.

Just trying to convince people he exists. Whether you love him or not is up to you.

I fear God because I know how much power he has. I also respect God for the same reason. I know God can kill me anytime he wishes just as he can kill you at anytime. We just have to live our lives and hope he lets us live for many more years.

The creation of earth demonstrates his powers.

For the believers of Big Bang without God I challenge you to watch a sunset at a beautiful spot, maybe a beach or mountain. Or maybe go walking in the New England forests on a dry and cool autumn day with leaves of red and gold. Birds singing sweet songs overhead. Or maybe look at and listen to the awesome power of Niagara Falls.

Ask yourselves, can these things be created without a divine being?

Yes

[Jehuddah]

But God seems to be the only missing link of the conflict of the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of evolution, and maybe, he is the external complicated force?
I'm agnostic but think about that.

Why it's necessarily your god?

?
I don't think it is part of the argument, the argument is on existence, not which God.
But I'm Jewish anyway.

[Anachronous Rex]

Because they metabolize energy. Energy which has its origins in the sun.


I absolutely can. I am, for instance, downloading something at this moment. My computer is gaining information at my command, but I don't really know what that information is.

1. But the energy cannot create this magnificent system.

Of course not, that requires chemistry. Which can.

2. But another person wrote the thing you download, right? So he holds the information.

True, but does he remember it all? Probably not. Given that, he no longer can be said to hold the information, but a computer does, and now my computer does.

There are instances in which even this is not the case. Take a saved game file:
Many events arise in games probabilistically. And the player is not always aware of them. Nonetheless they are recorded in a save. That is a computer knowing something that is true about the game, which I do not know, and indeed no one else knows.

[Immoren]

There is no conflict, the earth is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply. The brain is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply.

But unless there is something MORE COMPLICATED, it doesn't matter how much open system there is.

God also makes all the snowflakes, am I rite?

[Jehuddah]

Actually, if God exists it does not apply on him, he is outside the universe, our physics and our logic.

Why? If he exists outside of physics and logic, he coulden't feasibly interact with them. You propose to give your god a pass to do what is logically impossible; the mere asseration of being excused from the laws of the universe does not make it so. I could claim I"m my own father, just that non self-fathering people can't comprhend how I did so, but that's scientific bunk', because science, by its very nature, must work on laws that can be understood by observation; something everybody can do.

Not to mention, physics and logic affect everything we know exists. It is a scientific law that that which exists is subject to physics and logic. To say something exists outside these two is thus saying it does no exist.

The physics exist in our Universe, who knows what's outside the Universe?

[Transhuman Proteus]

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slaanesh?

You're not convincing people using that argument.

Just trying to convince people he exists. Whether you love him or not is up to you.

And not doing a very good job of that either.

And why does it have to be your God?

I fear God because I know how much power he has. I also respect God for the same reason. I know God can kill me anytime he wishes just as he can kill you at anytime. We just have to live our lives and hope he lets us live for many more years.

The creation of earth demonstrates his powers.

For the believers of Big Bang without God I challenge you to watch a sunset at a beautiful spot, maybe a beach or mountain. Or maybe go walking in the New England forests on a dry and cool autumn day with leaves of red and gold. Birds singing sweet songs overhead. Or maybe look at and listen to the awesome power of Niagara Falls.

Ask yourselves, can these things be created without a divine being?

Yes.

[Anachronous Rex]

Why? If he exists outside of physics and logic, he coulden't feasibly interact with them. You propose to give your god a pass to do what is logically impossible; the mere asseration of being excused from the laws of the universe does not make it so. I could claim I"m my own father, just that non self-fathering people can't comprhend how I did so, but that's scientific bunk', because science, by its very nature, must work on laws that can be understood by observation; something everybody can do.

Not to mention, physics and logic affect everything we know exists. It is a scientific law that that which exists is subject to physics and logic. To say something exists outside these two is thus saying it does no exist.

The physics exist in our Universe, who knows what's outside the Universe?

Yog-Sothoth.

Next.

[Jehuddah]

But unless there is something MORE COMPLICATED, it doesn't matter how much open system there is.

God also makes all the snowflakes, am I rite?

If you believe in God, yes.
If you don't, there are other explanations, we are talking here about complicated shapes, but it's nowhere like our brains or eyes.

[Farnhamia]

The physics exist in our Universe, who knows what's outside the Universe?

Yog-Sothoth.

Next.

Gozer the Gozerian.

[Neutraligon]

There is no conflict, the earth is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply. The brain is not a closed system, and therefore the second law cannot apply.

But unless there is something MORE COMPLICATED, it doesn't matter how much open system there is.

Yes it does. the second law by definition does not hold for an open system. Since the earth is an open system, the second law thus cannot apply to a system containing only the earth (the assumption you are making about evolution and the second law contradicting). To put it simply, the second law cannot contradict evolution because the second law does not hold in an open system.

[Czechanada]

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slaanesh?

You're not convincing people using that argument.

Just trying to convince people he exists. Whether you love him or not is up to you.

I fear God because I know how much power he has. I also respect God for the same reason. I know God can kill me anytime he wishes just as he can kill you at anytime. We just have to live our lives and hope he lets us live for many more years.

The creation of earth demonstrates his powers.

For the believers of Big Bang without God I challenge you to watch a sunset at a beautiful spot, maybe a beach or mountain. Or maybe go walking in the New England forests on a dry and cool autumn day with leaves of red and gold. Birds singing sweet songs overhead. Or maybe look at and listen to the awesome power of Niagara Falls.

Ask yourselves, can these things be created without a divine being?

That is a logical fallacy. The appeal to incredulity. Also:

"No one who sits at the bed of a dying child could still believe in God." - Bertrand Russell.

[Anachronous Rex]

Why it's necessarily your god?

?
I don't think it is part of the argument, the argument is on existence, not which God.
But I'm Jewish anyway.

Well you damned well better care.

Because if god is Tiamat, we're fucked.

[Anachronous Rex]

Yog-Sothoth.

Next.

Gozer the Gozerian.

Are you the Gatekeeper?

[Neutraligon]

Yog-Sothoth.

Next.

Gozer the Gozerian.

Sheogroth

[Immoren]

God also makes all the snowflakes, am I rite?

If you believe in God, yes.
If you don't, there are other explanations, we are talking here about complicated shapes, but it's nowhere like our brains or eyes.

Snowflakes are also complicated pieces that defy 2nd LoT.

Also

[Czechanada]

?
I don't think it is part of the argument, the argument is on existence, not which God.
But I'm Jewish anyway.

Well you damned well better care.

Because if god is Tiamat, we're fucked.

We'd have Bahamut to protect us in that instance.

[Neutraligon]

God also makes all the snowflakes, am I rite?

If you believe in God, yes.
If you don't, there are other explanations, we are talking here about complicated shapes, but it's nowhere like our brains or eyes.

That complexity can slowly form over millions of years due to evolution.

[Thrice Crownlands]

Why? If he exists outside of physics and logic, he coulden't feasibly interact with them. You propose to give your god a pass to do what is logically impossible; the mere asseration of being excused from the laws of the universe does not make it so. I could claim I"m my own father, just that non self-fathering people can't comprhend how I did so, but that's scientific bunk', because science, by its very nature, must work on laws that can be understood by observation; something everybody can do.

Not to mention, physics and logic affect everything we know exists. It is a scientific law that that which exists is subject to physics and logic. To say something exists outside these two is thus saying it does no exist.

The physics exist in our Universe, who knows what's outside the Universe?

You make he assumption that there IS an outside to the universe. The Universe covers everything observable and, thus, all we can prove to actually exist (We could also prove something exists if it interacts with anything in the universe, hypothetically, as it would be exerting an observable force) . And, even if their was an outside of the universe, in order for something their to interact with something here, it would have to express forces into our universe, which would be subject to this universe's laws. Nobody knows what's outside the universe... because first you have to prove there IS something outside of the universe. Meaning, the only possibility if their is no sign of outer-universal forces in the universe is that, if an outside exits, that which is outside of it never interacts with us, making it for all purposes non-existent.

[Farnhamia]

If you believe in God, yes.
If you don't, there are other explanations, we are talking here about complicated shapes, but it's nowhere like our brains or eyes.

That complexity can slowly form over millions of years due to evolution.

You're talking to someone who, if I recall correctly, has already said that since no one saw the Big Bang, how can anyone say it really happened?

[Ifreann]

Because they metabolize energy. Energy which has its origins in the sun.


I absolutely can. I am, for instance, downloading something at this moment. My computer is gaining information at my command, but I don't really know what that information is.

1. But the energy cannot create this magnificent system.

Yes it can.

2. But another person wrote the thing you download, right? So he holds the information.

I could hack out a program to store all the Fibonacci numbers without great difficulty. I don't personally know all the numbers, of course, but I can provide them to a computer. I could keep providing them to a computer, without ever knowing them myself, until the computer runs out of storage space, or something renders the computer inoperable.

[Neutraligon]

That complexity can slowly form over millions of years due to evolution.

You're talking to someone who, if I recall correctly, has already said that since no one saw the Big Bang, how can anyone say it really happened?

Shrugs. I can always try, and I want to help educate a fellow Jew who does not seem to understand the science.

[Czechanada]

If you believe in God, yes.
If you don't, there are other explanations, we are talking here about complicated shapes, but it's nowhere like our brains or eyes.

That complexity can slowly form over millions of years due to evolution.

Keep in mind that it can be difficult for people to conceptualize how long truly millions of years are.

As Sovereign would put it: It is beyond our mortal comprehension.

[Anachronous Rex]

1. But the energy cannot create this magnificent system.

Yes it can.

2. But another person wrote the thing you download, right? So he holds the information.

I could hack out a program to store all the Fibonacci numbers without great difficulty. I don't personally know all the numbers, of course, but I can provide them to a computer. I could keep providing them to a computer, without ever knowing them myself, until the computer runs out of storage space, or something renders the computer inoperable.

Indeed, any time you use a calculator to figure out something you do not, off-hand, know, it is providing you with knowledge.

It's not like the answers to all possible problems are stored inside, the computer has just figured it out for itself.

[Immoren]

That complexity can slowly form over millions of years due to evolution.

Keep in mind that it can be difficult for people to conceptualize how long truly millions of years are.

As Sovereign would put it: It is beyond our mortal comprehension.

Thankfully I am not a mere mortal.

[Jehuddah]

That complexity can slowly form over millions of years due to evolution.

You're talking to someone who, if I recall correctly, has already said that since no one saw the Big Bang, how can anyone say it really happened?

I said you can assume it happened, but you have never experienced it so...